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Software X
#2236076 02/22/14 06:15 PM
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doremi Offline OP
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Like many others here, I have tons of piano score sheets. I like to automatically convert some of them to lead sheets and corresponding MIDI files in the most efficient and cost-effective way.

Probably, that means scanning the piano score sheets to pdf and feeding them to software X. I need some basic editing capabilities of the automatically converted files, such as substitution of a chord in both the lead sheet and the corresponding MIDI file.

What software X do you recommend?


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Re: Software X
doremi #2236091 02/22/14 06:45 PM
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There was a discussion about PDF to MIDI software not so long ago. ShiroKuro and Tangleweeds mentioned something, a search of the forums should find this thread and others like it.

I'd say the process should be to convert the PDF to MIDI, make the necessary corrections (depends on how good the software is how much is needed) and then run the chord finder feature on the resulting MIDI file. Most notation programs have a chord assignment feature, at least the better ones.

Edit: Here's the thread I was talking about.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2217027/Software_for_creating_sheet_mu.html

Last edited by TheodorN; 02/22/14 06:49 PM.

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Re: Software X
doremi #2236110 02/22/14 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by doremi

What software X do you recommend?


I own Photoscore Ultimate and it does a decent job. According to forums and reviews, the Ultimate version (not the Lite one) of Photoscore is superior to competitors like Smartscore and is probably the state of the art.


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Re: Software X
TheodorN #2236114 02/22/14 07:56 PM
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I tried several scan-to-score apps. I found the best accuracy is with: https://www.musitek.com/smartscore-pro.html.

I have a Brother auto-feed all-in-one. By limiting the number of pages to something like 3-4 at a time, I can accurately scan printed sheet music directly into SmartScore. Accuracy is something like 95%. The touch-up process is fairly straight-forward.

After touchup, the music is exported into MusicXML and then imported into Sibelius 7 (7.1.3). There may be a better workflow, but I merge multiple "chunks" of a piece in Sibelius and then make necessary changes, including cleanup and assigning instruments. Finally, scores are exported to MIDI or printed.

I own both Sibelius and Finale. I prefer Sibelius over Finale. OTOH... Sibelius included a light version of PhotoScore and Finale a light version of SmartScore. In side by side testing, PhotoScore's accuracy was relatively poor at maybe 70-80%. As I mentioned above, SmartScore's accuracy was much higher.

I got the competitive upgrade price so it was $299. Still pricey, worth it IMO.

Regards,

Dan.


Last edited by Dan Clark; 02/22/14 08:07 PM.
Re: Software X
doremi #2236141 02/22/14 09:26 PM
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I too own both Finale and Sybellius (both full versions), and Photoscore ultimate, as I said (I don't own Smartscore pro). So I decided to do a test. I took the first page of River flows in you and scanned it with Smartscore lite (inside Finale) and in Photoscore ultimate. Photoscore did much better (virtually perfect actually). I don't know if (and how) to post midi files in this forum otherwise I would attach the midi exports. So Photoscore Ultimate is much more accurate than Smartscore lite (in addition, Smartscore lite has several limitation and only gave me the notes, Photoscore gave me everything that was on the page, and accurately).
My 2 cents....


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Re: Software X
doremi #2236173 02/22/14 11:55 PM
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Folks, I don't want to get in the middle of this, but can you (and others) please comment on the accuracy of the automatic chord recognition feature of PhotoScore, SmartScore, and similar apps? Thanks!


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked
Re: Software X
doremi #2236240 02/23/14 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by doremi
Folks, I don't want to get in the middle of this, but can you (and others) please comment on the accuracy of the automatic chord recognition feature of PhotoScore, SmartScore, and similar apps? Thanks!


I am not sure of what you mean. Do you mean, in scores where there are chord symbols, if the symbols are in the results?
There are in Photoscore, not in Finale (smartscore lite). Now if you also mean if you can playback the chords or add them to the midi file, as far I know you need (to export to) Sibelius for that. You need to use the option realize chord symbols (In v.7, it's under text, plugins).
You can have a look here
http://tomrudolph.berkleemusicblogs.com/2012/08/31/realizing-chord-symbols-in-sibelius/


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Re: Software X
Digitalguy #2236253 02/23/14 08:55 AM
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doremi Offline OP
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Full piano scores typically have no chord symbols. I like to convert them to lead sheets with chord symbols (like in fakebooks) I thought software can be (easily?) programmed to recognize the chords from the full score and add the missing chord symbols, perhaps after reducing the recognized chords to a simpler subset. No?


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked
Re: Software X
doremi #2236257 02/23/14 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by doremi
Full piano scores typically have no chord symbols. I like to convert them to lead sheets with chord symbols (like in fakebooks) I thought software can be (easily?) programmed to recognize the chords from the full score and add the missing chord symbols, perhaps after reducing the recognized chords to a simpler subset. No?


So you mean translating the left hand into chord symbols? Not sure it's what you mean but if you mean this, I am not aware of a way to do this. However this is a task for a notation software (such as Sibelius or Finale) not a music scanning software (as far as I know at least...)


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Re: Software X
Digitalguy #2236259 02/23/14 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Digitalguy
So you mean translating the left hand into chord symbols?

I think that the answer to the question is basically yes. The broader question is what do fakebook publishers do to arrive at their lead sheets.

I take it that fakebook publishers use Finale or Sibelius for this purpose, what is the workflow, in a nutshell?


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked
Re: Software X
doremi #2236263 02/23/14 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by doremi
Originally Posted by Digitalguy
So you mean translating the left hand into chord symbols?

I think that the answer to the question is basically yes. The broader question is what do fakebook publishers do to arrive at their lead sheets.

I take it that fakebook publishers use Finale or Sibelius for this purpose, what is the workflow, in a nutshell?


I imagine they use one of the 2 leading software but I don't know the exact process they go through.... Maybe some professionals could reply here but you should probably change the title of the thread as this one does not tell much about the subject....


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Re: Software X
Digitalguy #2236266 02/23/14 09:49 AM
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doremi Offline OP
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Agree, and I will start a new thread with a better title. The reason I used 'Software X' was that I did not even know what exactly it was that I was after. Your comments have clarified that, thanks!


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked
Re: Software X
doremi #2236273 02/23/14 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by doremi
Agree, and I will start a new thread with a better title. The reason I used 'Software X' was that I did not even know what exactly it was that I was after. Your comments have clarified that, thanks!


Yes, good idea, and maybe link this thread in the new one, so that people can see the comments already made.


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Re: Software X
doremi #2236276 02/23/14 10:26 AM
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Posted a sanitized question to the ABF forum in case someone is interested.


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked
Re: Software X
doremi #2236304 02/23/14 11:39 AM
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Sorry to throw a spanner in the works here, but this question is interesting to me; and it may or may not expose the extent of my ignorance. It is this:

If you want notation symbols, then presumably, you can read them. Otherwise, what's the use of them? So if you can make sense of them (ie play a chord from a given symbol), then wouldn't it be easy enough to write the symbols out yourself in the first place?

And, furthermore, wouldn't it be better than letting a machine make 'blind' judgements? Much in the way that human translation is, for the most part, better than relying on Google Translate.


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Re: Software X
toddy #2236315 02/23/14 11:49 AM
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@Toddy

I play in church and the hymn book has melody only.
I cannot read music, or should say, cannot read/play music in real time.

I input melody from hymn book into notation program and let the program insert chord symbols ... make my own lead sheet.

Notation program speeds up the process for me.
If I do not like a chord it comes up with, I simply change it.

Last edited by dannac; 02/23/14 11:51 AM.
Re: Software X
doremi #2236322 02/23/14 12:09 PM
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Yes, I understand. So it's really a tool to speed the process up - that's what I'd do to - including using Google Translate from time to time smile

But you say you 'input the melody from the hymn book into the notation program and let the program insert the chord symbols'.

Does this mean the computer actually works out the chord progression from the melody only? If so, it's a great deal more sophisticated than I thought could be. If it merely worked out the most probable chord from a bunch of notes, that is a simple thing (f#gbd = GMaj7, for example).

But if it works out the chords just from the melodic pattern, then it must have all the rules and conventions for writing part harmonies programmed into it: intricate! Not to mention the fact that Bach would have very different ideas from Britten or Bert Bacharach on how to go about it.


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Re: Software X
toddy #2236758 02/24/14 12:47 PM
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Quote
But you say you 'input the melody from the hymn book into the notation program and let the program insert the chord symbols'.

Does this mean the computer actually works out the chord progression from the melody only? If so, it's a great deal more sophisticated than I thought could be.
But if it works out the chords just from the melodic pattern, then it must have all the rules and conventions for writing part harmonies programmed into it: intricate! Not to mention the fact that Bach would have very different ideas from Britten or Bert Bacharach on how to go about it.



Yes, you can see examples in this thread.
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...arrive_at_a_lead_sheet_.html#Post2236274

Re: Software X
doremi #2236778 02/24/14 01:29 PM
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Well, if you want Bach, you play Bach. wink Otherwise, there are conventional chord progressions that match with melodies rather well.


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Re: Software X
Morodiene #2236801 02/24/14 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Well, if you want Bach, you play Bach. wink Otherwise, there are conventional chord progressions that match with melodies rather well.


True, there is no greater way to spend your time on this earth than playing Bach, but you might want to do something in the style of Bach, mightn't you? But then, I really think it would be time to start working out your own chords. Although I suppose harmonizing in the style of Bach would be something computers would be rather good at, given a clever programmer.

But it would always be second rate Bach.


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