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Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2232140
02/15/14 04:48 PM
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JFP Offline
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Join in rather late, but the soundboard based Kawai's are a world apart in sound quality when played over speakers (+board) compared to the CA65. That's the reason I swapped my 65 for a 95 pretty soon. Also the idea of a proper EQ-ed audio input on the CA95 /CS10 was important to me; like you - to be able to use another piano sound whenever I choose too. Be it Integra7 or a software piano. I also tried the LX - but the speaker system bleached in comparison to the CA95. Way to much 'speaker' sound and overly biased base tones (booming). And the keys of the Kawai....!

Hope you like the CS. Beware that when you use another piano sound as source, I'd have to tweak the touch curves and audio levels to get it all to your liking. Otherwise you might be dissapointed with the default response.

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Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2232141
02/15/14 04:52 PM
02/15/14 04:52 PM
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PS. I have been eying a 2nd hand Jupiter80 lately for a nice price. Considering the new FA series is out now ; do you still think it's a right choice ?? I understand the Jupiter is still way more flexible as a controller and synth and has 256 polyphony, 76 keys and after-touch. But the FA also comes in 88 and seems to pack more sounds, although misses some of the better Jupiter SN sets (I understood). And IMHO FA's look cheap and ugly with all the black/red plastic.

Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: JFP] #2233499
02/18/14 02:52 AM
02/18/14 02:52 AM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Originally Posted by JFP
PS. I have been eying a 2nd hand Jupiter80 lately for a nice price. Considering the new FA series is out now ; do you still think it's a right choice ?? I understand the Jupiter is still way more flexible as a controller and synth and has 256 polyphony, 76 keys and after-touch. But the FA also comes in 88 and seems to pack more sounds, although misses some of the better Jupiter SN sets (I understood). And IMHO FA's look cheap and ugly with all the black/red plastic.


Personally, I really enjoy the Jupiter and on the synth side and I wouldn't trade it for the FA. The FA will have more functionality because it is a workstation and allows for more types of sounds, but IMO, the Jupiter is the more interesting instrument. What do you plan on using it for? I don't really have a need for a workstation.


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2233500
02/18/14 02:54 AM
02/18/14 02:54 AM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Anyone know if the other sounds on the LX-15e are SN? In particular, the EPs?


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
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Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2233620
02/18/14 10:17 AM
02/18/14 10:17 AM
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The only reference the manual makes to SN is in the spec sheet, where it says "Piano Sound: SuperNATURAL Piano Sound". It seems to be referring specifically to the piano sound, so I'd assume that the E Pianos etc are not SN.

Other thing to be aware of is that the LX15e doesn't have MIDI ports, so you can't connect it to your Jupiter or and Integra-7, except maybe via a computer. The older LX15 does have MIDI.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2236179
02/23/14 12:18 AM
02/23/14 12:18 AM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Well, one more flip flop. After spending some meaningful time with the LX-15, HP508 and CA95 this week, I ended up purchasing the LX-15e today. It will arrive in about 10 days. It was a difficult decision, but ultimately, as a piano, I enjoyed playing the LX the most and decided that was the most important factor.


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2236183
02/23/14 12:28 AM
02/23/14 12:28 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Congrats!

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Kawai James] #2236192
02/23/14 01:10 AM
02/23/14 01:10 AM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Congrats!

James
x


Thanks James. It was a hard decision and I think the easier choice would have been a CS10. It looks better, has a better action and far more sensible features. It also has a beautiful, natural tone and great playability. I think it is the better choice for most people.

Roland really messed up with removing MIDI and several of their other choices. It also seems to me that they have opted to cut costs in some minor areas like the plastics used on the buttons. I was told that manufacturing has been moved to Indonesia for the new series.

Although I did consider running an Integra through the CS, I decided that I just wanted something simple that excelled at recreating the acoustic piano experience. It's not perfect, but the playability of the SN engine coupled with the projection of the multichannel system satisfied me the most in that regard. I'll see how I feel after a few months of use.

Last edited by Hideki Matsui; 02/23/14 01:13 AM.

Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2236446
02/23/14 05:37 PM
02/23/14 05:37 PM
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" I'll see how I feel after a few months of use."

And it cost HOW much?? cursing




"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2236454
02/23/14 05:54 PM
02/23/14 05:54 PM
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Thank you Hideki Matsui for posting your thoughts! It made me more certain about buying the CS10 being the right choice for me. Hopefully just a week from delivery now. smile


Kawai CS10
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2236474
02/23/14 06:37 PM
02/23/14 06:37 PM
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Portugal
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Did you noticed the difference between the action of LX-15 (PHAIII) and that of HP 508 (PHA4, the same of LX-15e)?
This weekend I played a HP507 and a HP506 side by side and felt that PHA4, although less noisy is more "sluggish" and difficult to press, like the action of a brand new grand that was still not played so that its keys become more "free".
The seller in the store, who is professional pianist and definitely prefers acoustics (is lucky to have some Steinways at his showroom) said that after playing the new 506 for some time felt pain in his wrists. Before I heard his opinion I also felt PHA4 more tiring. I am used to my RD 700, that I feel heavier than PHAIII.

Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: DPAfficionado] #2236505
02/23/14 08:48 PM
02/23/14 08:48 PM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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I definitely noticed the softer landing of the 508 action v the LX-15, but they otherwise felt identical to me. I mostly play on my Shigeru so I'm accustomed to an acoustic action. I felt both the Roland actions were lighter and easier to play than my Shigeru. The Roland action feels like a nicely broken in piano to me.



Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: peterws] #2236506
02/23/14 08:54 PM
02/23/14 08:54 PM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Originally Posted by peterws
" I'll see how I feel after a few months of use."

And it cost HOW much?? cursing




$5,400 + tax.

I've found that every DP comes with its own set of compromises, but the LX-15e seems to do what I care about most really well. It may be that after a few months, I'll discover things that bother me, but given the scarcity of LXs out there, it seems buying one and living with it will be the only way to discover if I made the right choice.


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Morty] #2236507
02/23/14 08:58 PM
02/23/14 08:58 PM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Morty
Thank you Hideki Matsui for posting your thoughts! It made me more certain about buying the CS10 being the right choice for me. Hopefully just a week from delivery now. smile


Kawai makes a beautiful instrument and even now, I'm concerned that I should have gone with the CS10. I think Roland did itself a disservice by limiting the functionality of the LX-15e and the action on the Kawai is my favorite. Great choice on the CS10, and as I stated before, I think it is the easier and better choice for most people.


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2236535
02/23/14 10:11 PM
02/23/14 10:11 PM
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Congrats on the new LX!

I know what you mean about the Rolands vs the Kawais. On paper the Kawais are better, but there's something about the design and sound of the Rolands that appeals to me more... I found them more exciting and satisfying to play overall. Hopefully will get an HP505 or 506 at some point to replace my aging slab!


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2236627
02/24/14 03:42 AM
02/24/14 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hideki Matsui
I decided that I just wanted something simple that excelled at recreating the acoustic piano experience. It's not perfect, but the playability of the SN engine coupled with the projection of the multichannel system satisfied me the most in that regard.


This is the same reason that I own and play a V-Piano as it has excellent playability in regards to its wide dynamic range from "pp" to "ff" and the relatively light PHA-III action is very fast and responsive, also. The only negatives I have found are the loud thunking sounds and hard bottoming out of the key bed.

However, I also have two other Clavinova's:

1) The CLP-990 is an older flagship model from 2001 that has a great "Grand Piano 1" preset and has solid all wood keys with simulated escapement that works accurately and a very nice weighted action. The projected sound is very good from the front facing speakers in the upper cabinet grills which is not available on other digitals.

2) The CLP-480 is the current flagship model that has a decent "Grand Piano 1" preset and offers a wide array of other sounds and features that the CLP-990M does not. However, the CLP-480 does not have the simulated escapement and the speaker quality is a little muffled in comparison to the CLP-990 as it does not project in quite the same way to give it that authentic acoustic piano sound that is crystal clear and bell-like with excellent brilliance and reverb effects.

Overall, the V-Piano has the best playability of any digital I have played so far on account of its realistic dynamic range and one can change settings to lengthen the decay, sustain, soundboard resonance, etc.

The Clavinova's offer a more realistic piano sound and reverb effects with the default presets and the actions are firmer with a softer bottoming out as the solid all wood keys have an acoustic-like feel.

Each of the three flagship digitals have something different and unique to offer the player.

Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: pv88] #2236637
02/24/14 05:06 AM
02/24/14 05:06 AM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pv88
Originally Posted by Hideki Matsui
I decided that I just wanted something simple that excelled at recreating the acoustic piano experience. It's not perfect, but the playability of the SN engine coupled with the projection of the multichannel system satisfied me the most in that regard.


This is the same reason that I own and play a V-Piano as it has excellent playability in regards to its wide dynamic range from "pp" to "ff" and the relatively light PHA-III action is very fast and responsive, also. The only negatives I have found are the loud thunking sounds and hard bottoming out of the key bed.

However, I also have two other Clavinova's:
....
Overall, the V-Piano has the best playability of any digital I have played so far on account of its realistic dynamic range and one can change settings to lengthen the decay, sustain, soundboard resonance, etc.

The Clavinova's offer a more realistic piano sound and reverb effects with the default presets and the actions are firmer with a softer bottoming out as the solid all wood keys have an acoustic-like feel.

Each of the three flagship digitals have something different and unique to offer the player.


The sound projection system of the LX is far superior to the Clavinovas. It is more comparable to the Yamaha N series. The LX uses a six speaker multi-channel array and with the lid open, it provides a great dimensional experience. As someone who primarily plays an acoustic, the aural experience is really important to me.

Last edited by Hideki Matsui; 02/24/14 05:08 AM.

Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2236924
02/24/14 06:11 PM
02/24/14 06:11 PM
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How does the CA95 speaker system compare to the LX15?

Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Enthusiast] #2237004
02/24/14 08:44 PM
02/24/14 08:44 PM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Enthusiast
How does the CA95 speaker system compare to the LX15?


The CA system is excellent and maintains great clarity and balance at all volumes. The soundboard adds nice depth to the bottom and does significantly enhance the sound v. the 65. From the players perspective, it provides a great, immersive experience.

As much as I enjoyed the CA95, the Roland system on the LX is exceptional. The multichannel approach really adds depth and dimension to the way the sound is projected. It significantly enhances the realism from the player's perspective. When you stand back and listen to someone playing the LX, the difference between the LX and the CA is even more apparent. The LX almost sounds like a small grand piano in the room. I don't think a 2.1 setup can really achieve that.

I will note that the even though the LX and HP508 use the same multichannel system, the LX setup is better because it allows you to open the lid, which noticeably affects the way the sound can be projected. You have to play with the lid open to fully appreciate the LX. Much like a real piano, with the lid closed, you also get a more muted and dulled tone.

Last edited by Hideki Matsui; 02/24/14 09:09 PM.

Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: Roland HP508, LX15e or Kawai CS10? [Re: Hideki Matsui] #2239116
02/28/14 05:11 PM
02/28/14 05:11 PM
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Hideki Matsui Offline OP
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Colton Piano called today to let me know the LX-15e arrived. I wasn't expecting it for several weeks so a very nice surprise.


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
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