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#2237638 - 02/25/14 09:01 PM Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude)  
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A few lessons ago I was talking to my teacher about my repertoire for my upcoming jury and decided on some Rachmaninoff, Shosty, Bach, and Chopin; as for the Chopin I was hoping to play the Étude in C major Op. 10 No. 7 but my teacher said I should go with the Op. 25 No. 1 in A-flat, personally I think I can play the C major better than the A-flat and I just like it more than the A-flat to be honest! Should I go with my teacher's opinion and choose the A-flat?

Some consider the C major étude to be one of the more difficult out of the 27 and some think it's one of the least complex I find it to be of moderate difficulty and consider the A-flat to be harder than the C major, my teacher told me (about the C major) "personally I wouldn't go for that étude right now if I were you" any thoughts? Thanks.


Beethoven - Piano Concerto No. 4 Op. 58
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#2237643 - 02/25/14 09:07 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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What reasons did your teacher give for not going with op.10/7? Specifically?

All other things being equal, op.10/7 is a more interesting choice, because op.25/1 is so frequently played. But I would tend to think your teacher has good reasons for what he/she said.

(Also, while there is some disagreement about op.10/7's difficulty, I don't think any people put it in the "most difficult" category of op.10/1, 10/2, 25/6 and 25/11.)

-J


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt VallĂŠe d'Obermann
#2237656 - 02/25/14 09:26 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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No specific reasons but I think it has something to do with my repertoire choices, I tend to play more lyrical pieces rather than something like the op. 10/7, she also told me she would think I would play the Op. 25/1 beautifully so I think she told me to stay away from the Op. 10/7 just for the fact that she would prefer listening to me play op. 25/1


Beethoven - Piano Concerto No. 4 Op. 58
#2237657 - 02/25/14 09:28 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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10/7 is extremely difficult. Enough said.


Regards,

Polyphonist
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#2237681 - 02/25/14 10:48 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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Always listen to your teacher. (This is from a teacher.) That being said, I found 10/7 to be considerably more difficult to play than 25/1.


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#2237686 - 02/25/14 11:06 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: DameMyra]  
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Originally Posted by DameMyra
Always listen to your teacher.

Yes. As long as you trust your teacher.
It's ok to ask for specifics though -- why specifically this piece is the better choice for you in your teacher's opinion.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

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I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
#2237719 - 02/26/14 12:17 AM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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Your teacher certainly knows your skills and abilities better than we do. The choice has to be yours because even if we have our individual preferences, it all boils down to which one you - and your teacher - think you play better.

Regards,


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#2237903 - 02/26/14 12:12 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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My thoughts are if you aren't going to listen to your teacher in regard to such matters, why are you going to a teacher?


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#2237927 - 02/26/14 01:11 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Hrodulf]  
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Originally Posted by Hrodulf
My thoughts are if you aren't going to listen to your teacher in regard to such matters, why are you going to a teacher?

So, when you wanted to learn to play faster passages, and you asked your teacher, what did they say? I don't remember you talking about that in the other thread, and I was curious..


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#2237939 - 02/26/14 01:33 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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Originally Posted by Hrodulf
My thoughts are if you aren't going to listen to your teacher in regard to such matters, why are you going to a teacher?


There are plenty of reasons to have a teacher that don't imply agreeing with him/her all the times, especially in matter of repertoire.

Originally Posted by Lisztoid
Should I go with my teacher's opinion and choose the A-flat?


You should go for the Etude 25/1 and cut out extra time (10-15 minutes a day) to get acquainted with 10/7 just for your enjoyment. Stick to the first 8 bars (actually 6 since two are repeated) until you understand the correct arm/hand movement, which is not obvious (in an essay Abby Whiteside wrote extensively about it). When you're done with 25/1 you can show your teacher your progress on 10/7 and see what he/she says.

BTW, you can't go wrong with the Etude 25/1. It's one of the most useful among the 27s and will help you a lot with some tricky LH arps in the 4th movement of the Beethoven sonata you're currently studying. Maybe your teacher envisioned that.

Last edited by maxmila; 02/26/14 01:40 PM.
#2237947 - 02/26/14 01:50 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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Originally Posted by Lisztoid
No specific reasons but I think it has something to do with my repertoire choices, I tend to play more lyrical pieces rather than something like the op. 10/7, she also told me she would think I would play the Op. 25/1 beautifully so I think she told me to stay away from the Op. 10/7 just for the fact that she would prefer listening to me play op. 25/1


I have no experience here but I share your preference for 10/7. I think your teacher is giving you a very gentle nudge but I'm not sure exactly why. I see three possibilities that your teacher is thinking:
1) The 10/7 is too difficult to score well on in an evaluation.
2) Would enjoy hearing you play the 25/1 based on the qualities of your playing or just prefers it to the 10/7 and would rather help you with it. (maybe has a bad history with 10/7)
3) Doesn't think you are able to pull off the 10/7 as well as the 25/1 based on knowledge of your strengths.

I'm sure there are other possibilities, but the important thing is that you make this decision. You could always tell your teacher exactly what you said in your first post and ask for clarification. If you really are more passionate about the 10/7 and the teacher was going with reason #2, then she might say go for it.

Seems like you have a good relationship and your teacher is not too domineering. All things equal, the safe decision is to do the 25/1 depending on if you like it enough to do a good job of it. Maybe she can give you the most guidance for 25/1. But it will be you playing it in the end. smile

#2237961 - 02/26/14 02:12 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: maxmila]  
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Originally Posted by maxmila
There are plenty of reasons to have a teacher that don't imply agreeing with him/her all the times, especially in matter of repertoire.


We obviously have different opinions about the student teacher relationship.


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#2237962 - 02/26/14 02:12 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: maxmila]  
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Originally Posted by maxmila
Originally Posted by Hrodulf
My thoughts are if you aren't going to listen to your teacher in regard to such matters, why are you going to a teacher?


There are plenty of reasons to have a teacher that don't imply agreeing with him/her all the times, especially in matter of repertoire.
[...]


But you think it is acceptable for the OP to take repertoire advice from strangers on the Internet who know nothing of his performance skills and abilities?



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#2237973 - 02/26/14 02:34 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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Your teacher knows your playing. We don't. In fact your teacher should know your playing better than you do, and certainly knows the music better than you do (ideally this should be the case).

If you trust your teacher, then take your teacher's advice. Ultimately it has to be your decision, and sometimes as teachers we do get things wrong but we base our decisions up on our experience and knowledge, and always with our pupil's best interests at heart.

If you don't trust your teacher, then you should change teacher, because it's not good for either of you.

Talk any doubts you have over with your teacher, ask for his/her reasons for going with the pieces. Liking a piece better isn't the same as playing it well (OK granted you never said you like it better, you say you play it better, but I'm judging you against myself unashamedly because I have little else to go on!), and perhaps although you feel that one piece goes better, your teacher sees that you are more secure and better able to express yourself through another.

I never present pieces in recital that I will feel insecure in, because even if it goes well, there is always something blocking the communication of the piece to the audience. If you're playing to a jury it's obviously something quite important.

Why don't you save the C major etude for some recitals that aren't as high pressured? And always remember, this won't be your only recital, and in years to come you'll look back and it won't seem quite as relevant which piece you played, but it will seem relevant how well you did, perhaps.

Good luck, play well, do your best, and let us know how you get on. And hey, if you go with the C major, may you play it to the best of your ability.

#2238036 - 02/26/14 05:23 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Derulux]  
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Originally Posted by Derulux
Originally Posted by Hrodulf
My thoughts are if you aren't going to listen to your teacher in regard to such matters, why are you going to a teacher?

So, when you wanted to learn to play faster passages, and you asked your teacher, what did they say? I don't remember you talking about that in the other thread, and I was curious..


She assigned me Hanon and Kramer exercises. I already ordered another book so I will do that also.


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#2238038 - 02/26/14 05:24 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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So you're willing to play Hanon and Cramer exercises, but not repertoire at your level?


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2238077 - 02/26/14 06:41 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Polyphonist]  
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I was assigned these pieces by my teacher after discussion and looking through the musical scores I've gathered. The only things I've added myself are the Chopin Ballade, the Haydn sonata and the Brahms piece, because apart from the Ballade I was working on them with the teacher before and didn't want to give up the progress I made with them already. I added the Ballade because I heard it on youtube and I liked it and thought it would be good for the party.

As to my level, since I'm coming back to the piano after not really playing for about ten years, I don't really know what my level is at this point. All I can do is try different pieces and see what works. If they're too difficult then I'll move on but it helps to learn what the requirements are. The Lizst sonata has shined a spotlight on what parts of my technique need work and now I can focus on those areas. Those problems would have escaped notice had I been timid and only played unchallenging fare as you appear to suggest.

Last edited by Hrodulf; 02/26/14 06:50 PM.

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#2238089 - 02/26/14 07:04 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Hrodulf]  
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This is my desktop background on my computer now by the way.

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#2238098 - 02/26/14 07:37 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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You've told us that multiple times before, but I don't see why it's so important...


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2238101 - 02/26/14 07:46 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
You've told us that multiple times before, but I don't see why it's so important...


Because this time I posted the picture.


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#2238117 - 02/26/14 08:27 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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Thank you all for your input, I decided to go with 25/1 to play for my jury but that isn't stopping me from continuing 10/7! I'll probably end up playing 10/7 sometime in a future recital and just hope all goes well in my examination.


Beethoven - Piano Concerto No. 4 Op. 58
#2238122 - 02/26/14 08:40 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Hrodulf]  
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Originally Posted by Hrodulf
Those problems would have escaped notice had I been timid and only played unchallenging fare as you appear to suggest.

The more you mature as a musician, the more you realize that nothing is easy.

This discussion is not exactly on topic, so I'm going to bow out of it for now, unless you wish to continue on one of your threads.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2238129 - 02/26/14 08:54 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Hrodulf
Those problems would have escaped notice had I been timid and only played unchallenging fare as you appear to suggest.

The more you mature as a musician, the more you realize that nothing is easy.

This discussion is not exactly on topic, so I'm going to bow out of it for now, unless you wish to continue on one of your threads.


I would prefer not. To quote grand moff tarkin, "this bickering is pointless."


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#2238132 - 02/26/14 09:01 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Hrodulf]  
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Originally Posted by Hrodulf
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Hrodulf
Those problems would have escaped notice had I been timid and only played unchallenging fare as you appear to suggest.

The more you mature as a musician, the more you realize that nothing is easy.

This discussion is not exactly on topic, so I'm going to bow out of it for now, unless you wish to continue on one of your threads.


I would prefer not. To quote grand moff tarkin, "this bickering is pointless."

The other thread, please.

To bring this back around to the original topic, I wish the OP good luck with 25/1. It is one of the best of the 27 and well worth studying.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2238133 - 02/26/14 09:03 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Hrodulf
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Hrodulf
Those problems would have escaped notice had I been timid and only played unchallenging fare as you appear to suggest.

The more you mature as a musician, the more you realize that nothing is easy.

This discussion is not exactly on topic, so I'm going to bow out of it for now, unless you wish to continue on one of your threads.


I would prefer not. To quote grand moff tarkin, "this bickering is pointless."

The other thread, please. To bring this back around to the original topic, I wish the OP good luck with 25/1. It is one of the best of the 27 and well worth studying.


I wasn't continuing the discussion, I was ending it.


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#2238152 - 02/26/14 10:16 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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I wish you could just stop flexing your ego on this forum, personally speaking.

Op. 10/7 is one of the more difficult ones in the set. OP, have you looked into the slower sets of the etudes in Op. 25? The C# Minor has a nocturnesque beauty that deserves its own category.

#2238191 - 02/26/14 11:59 PM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: albumblatter]  
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True, but I wondering if I'm wrong in thinking that op.25 no.7 is freakishly difficult to perform at a high level?

#2238235 - 02/27/14 01:37 AM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Lisztoid]  
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They are all difficult.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2238251 - 02/27/14 02:04 AM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Yes, but I think some respond to middle of the road performance better than others. Op. 25 No.7 strikes me as a piece that you either have excellent control and touch and balance and therefore can play very well(assuming you can connect with it of course) or you don't have the fore mentioned and won't be able be able to give anything even close to satisfying.

#2238338 - 02/27/14 08:48 AM Re: Should I go with my teacher's opinion? (Chopin étude) [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by maxmila
Originally Posted by Hrodulf
My thoughts are if you aren't going to listen to your teacher in regard to such matters, why are you going to a teacher?


There are plenty of reasons to have a teacher that don't imply agreeing with him/her all the times, especially in matter of repertoire.
[...]


But you think it is acceptable for the OP to take repertoire advice from strangers on the Internet who know nothing of his performance skills and abilities?


Why not? It's up to the OP then to decide what to do of the bits of advice collected. As I see it, a forum should be a way to make ideas circulate and offer different perspectives to the participants. In the case in point, there was enough information to offer a limited opinion. But I admit that other times the OP seems so clueless that the best thing to do probably is to leave the thread alone.

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