Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Bösendorfer 290 Imperial v Steinway D

I have the good fortune and immense pleasure to own both a D and an Imperial. They are of similar age, are maintained similarly, are located in the same room and are played an equal amount of time. My observation is that they each offer their own unique (read different types of beauty) sound palette and can both be played equally softly. So I agree with Rich and the others who emphasize the importance of the regulation and the quality of the technician.

We agree plumpfingers. I just wanted to refer to a video that I enjoy of one of my favorite artists playing a Bosendorfer Imperial in concert. Se is able to get some gorgeous delicate passages out of this piano.

I have never serviced a Bosendorfer with factory hammers that couldn't be regulated to play very well softly.

Recently, there was an art case Bose at the dealer in Bellevue WA that I played-and it did have no ability to play softly. I don't know how it got that way and I never got a look inside.

This is a good post, because it clarifies the issue. Indeed her playing is delicate and the piano is beautiful. The sound fills the whole concert hall. The sustain notes sing long and full.

When I play, I play for myself in a smaller room, and my desire is to play softer than even she is playing. That is why we have different opinions, we are talking about different volume levels.

Incidentally the end of this video really makes you appreciate the rich power of the Imperial's bass. You don't always need it, but when you do, it's nice to have:

I came very close to purchasing an Imperial last year. Certainly there was no problem with the action. It was prepared to a very high standard indeed and was a superb instrument.
I have encountered another at a major London concert hall in a relatively poor state compared with the various D's also available. That Imperial simply needs attention.

Dear Phantom,

I understand. Of course I chose a professional video of an artist playing in concert. I stand by my statement that, if they are well prepared, any of the larger Bosendorfer grands can be controlled to a beautiful pianissimo in any space.

I am sorry you haven't had that experience and I respect your thoughts.

I currently have a Bosendorfer concert grand in stock - it is a 280 though, not an Imperial. I invite you to visit me in Philadelphia to see this first hand.

OR, if you like, I can make a short video from a smaller room that demonstrates the control that is possible.

Let me know if you would enjoy seeing that.

Yours,

I am always happy to increase my knowledge about pianos, but I am quite certain we are talking about different dynamic levels here. I've played on well prepped 290s and poorly prepped 290s, but maybe you can do better.

I would love to come visit you. I am in California though, so it's a bit of a trip. I probably won't be able to make it until next month at the earliest. Actually that sounds like a really fun trip so let me see what I can arrange. I start a new job next week so my schedule is a bit unpredictable.

I would imagine that any piano costing over $100,000, if prepped well, should be able to handle dynamics from ultra loud to ultra quiet. Perhaps the performer is even more important. My daughter, and my tuner for that matter, can make my piano sound much better than I can, but that is my problem. The videos offered above are good examples of artists who can bring out the best in a piano. I would guess just about any professional concert artist could. Just one other thought: at a concert isn't it a given that the pianist has to play loud enough for the hall so playing loud is more common than if the performance were in a salon or small home. I can play very softly on my BB, but that would be a disaster in a concert with 1500 seats wouldn't it? (I have to confess that I attended a concert with my eldest daughter to hear my favorite concerto, the RACH 2. The performer, a very highly-regarded Grammy-winning classical artist, was attempting to give a subtle, delicate performance and even though we had seats very close to the stage in a really famous, fine hall, I had trouble hearing a lot of it. I was really sorry to have such a bad experience as my daughter had taken me to the concert as a special birthday present and I had to kind of fib in my comments to her after the concert. I hated doing that but didn't want to take anything away from her excitement at taking me to hear one of my favorite works with this famous artist.) The sound had nothing to do with the brand of piano. It was a Steinway D which has performed admirably at other concerts in the same venue.

Thank you for all the comments everyone. I appreciate the feedback on my question. If anyone has time to give my videos a view and a like on Youtube (both played on the Bosendorfer 290 Imperial) I'd really appreciate it.

I'll be playing my first Steinway D in April so I'll finally be able to put all your advice to the test and see the difference for myself. Here are the links if you'd be kind enough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Nld8IuvGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUsC463qIUk

Thanks everyone for being so helpful!

JamesYorkPiano

These are both OT observations on my part. Sitting on the floor close to the stage in Avery Fisher, you really can't hear anything clearly. I feel like the best sound in AFH is up in the cheap seats. And I'll also say that Carnegie Hall isn't very good for piano concerti. Anything outside of the proscenium arch doesn't project well, which unfortunately is where the piano will normally be located--especially with a large orchestra.

He has sto.. uuuhm copypasted that speech..

Originally:

I seldom play piano. But when I do, I prefer the nine footer.

If anyone is vaguely interested in this topic, I visited Rich at Cunningham Piano, and his Bosendorfer indeed is easy to play, even at extremely quiet volume levels. I first played it softly, and frustrated that it was so easy ( ) I played even more softly. The notes stayed even no matter how softly I played until the sound was too soft to be heard.

Also perhaps worth mentioning, I measured the 290 with a sound meter, and the maximum sound wasn't actually higher in decibels than other pianos. It certainly is more powerful, and you can actually feel the sound in your chest when you play, but in terms of raw volume, it isn't appreciably louder.

@phantomFive, the ability to play softly on a 290 and the maximum output (dB) is a function that is adjustable by a technician that knows well the inner working of the system: reduce hammer mass and you get faster hammers (higher output) and greater control over an expand pianissimo range. There are trade offs: you may then not like the feel of the keyboard (i.e., it will be lighter), but there are ways around that as well.

For me, the 290 is the ultimate choice for one specific reason: those extra bass notes can be timed earlier to adjust the perceived reverb in the room. This make a 290 more flexible in different spaces, as it can easily be adjusted to enhance the acoustics of the room.

Here is my 290, in my tiny kitchen/living room, with my wife playing the piano:
[video:youtube]PtHhAuSptpY[/video]

Beautiful playing. Beautiful piano.

What's the name of the treble pin warmer?

That is a beautifully played Liebestraum and a lovely sounding Bose.
Although this thread is Bose 290 v Steinway D, I thought people here would enjoy comparing the Bose to a Steingraeber in the same music. The Steingraeber is nearly 2 feet smaller, but I think does rather nicely. Maybe we should start a new thread with these 2 videos. I think it is interesting.

Of course, the Bose has the advantage of the cute dog strategically placed to absorb some of the upper partials!

Um, er, ah, oh, ...

Keith, isn't that pushing the, ahem, marketing restriction?

I saw her videos in the other part of the forum, Pianists Corner/Classical. Fabulous. And I believe the dog is called Katy.

The piano in the video was sold long ago. The first thing i did after listening to Ms Mimaki's beautiful Liebestraum was listen to the Pandolfi recording and compare the very different sounding pianos. I am sure many others will do the same thing and find it fascinating. Probably deserves its own thread. This is exactly the kind of thing that people who frequent the forum find interesting.

lol...that treble pin warmer is Katy; she just turned 12 and she loves the piano!
[video:youtube]9372_QIPBAk[/video]

@Keith D Kerman, she's actually not strategically placed to absorb some of the upper partials--which is a common irritant with 290. That is simply how I have the piano setup now. Here is the same piano 4 years ago--in the same location--when we first got it...the piano sounds much different now after I've had a chance to really work on it.
[video:youtube]dY0grROh88U[/video]

I was making a joke
My Alaskan Malamute wants to know why she doesn't get to lie on the piano!