Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Anyone else still not understand how we do what we do?

This thread reminded me of a book that was written pretty much because the author had this same question. It's The Hand: How its use shapes the brain, language, and human culture by Frank R. Wilson. I read it some years ago but really only remember this paragraph, from the prologue -



(And, speaking "how do we do stuff with our hands" it surprised me that I could type that paragraph with only a couple of errors and fairly quickly.)

Now that I've pulled the book off the shelf, I'm thinking I should reread it and see if I get more from it the second time around. I won't recommend it, because my remembered impression is that it had disappointed me, but the reviews on Amazon seem mostly positive, so maybe it was just me.

I'm not so fascinated by the mechanical side of the instrument. My amazement is more so at the fact that when we learn music, or at least when I learn music, no matter how many times the piece has been played, by myself or someone else, it's always different.

Well perhaps my example was poorly set. I'll try again.

The feat that the Olympic athlets do are simply stunning for me! To be able and jump some 8.95 meters long, without touching the ground seems insane to me! Playing the piano doesn't! :-/

But your feat at doing a marathon at 3 and half hours or less is simply stunning as well! My respect to you sir!

Every time I think I know a lot about piano, I am always amazed by the endless "freshness" and complexity gained from playing new pieces.

Yes it's all miraculous. We hardly understand anything of all of the body, brain and world, yet we can make it work.

The perception process (seeing and hearing) is even more miraculous. If you have done even a little bit of image or audio processing, you know that what we think as 'the usual percepts' is really a huge mess, and somehow we make sense of it. Those olympics are nothing compared to that

See: the cerebellum.

Kind of a sub-brain that does a LOT of stuff, but one major task is to manage our motor output.

When you "get that piece in your fingers" or "get the muscle memory down" for a piece, what you've really done is trained your cerebellum how to play it. Now you can set your "mind" to other tasks, like interpretation etc, while your little minion brain churns out all the fine motor stuff needed to hit the notes at the time with the right speed.

"This Is Your Brain On Music" speaks to this point. Fun book.

Don't think about it too hard.

The centipede's dilemma:
A centipede was happy – quite!
Until a toad in fun
Said, "Pray, which leg moves after which?"
This raised her doubts to such a pitch,
She fell exhausted in the ditch
Not knowing how to run. -- Katherine Craster

I often wondered what natural skills a person would have are necessary for successful piano playing. Keyboard instruments have only been around for a fraction of human existence, yet it is doubtless that the skillset required to play a keyboard instrument existed before their invention. I believe that the most important things are hand eye coordination, dexterity, rhythmic sense and determination. I'm not sure these things can be taught, but Elsie Segar, the creator of Pop-Eye the sailor, said that someone with less talent but who works harder can eclipse one with more talent, who does not work as hard.

Well, isn't that how it should be? you're a pianist, you're used to playing the piano, it normal that it doesn't seem that that difficult to you anymore. I bet if those olympic athletes who jump 8.95 metres watch you play the piano, they would be as stunned as you are when you're watching them... i mean, you could play "Für elise" to a non-musician, and they'd go all "oh my that's AMAZING!!! how can you do that"?

Even though I hold a music performance degree and teach music, I still find jumping 8.95 metres more comprehensible than how we play piano! I know what can be done to increase skills and understanding and make a better musician, but it's still an extraordinary confluence of so many factors - many of which we can't be aware of while we are doing it. Jumping a long distance is not nearly so sophisticated a proposition - incredible athleticism and technique notwithstanding.

What? That's like saying "becoming a master pianist is pretty simple, discarding all the work needed to get there."

What a silly thing to say.

The feats performed at the Olympics are absolutely stunning...almost superhuman. Trying to compare Olympic athletes to pianists is ridiculous.

in both sports and music, good technique is needed. The only difference is, that one is more mentally challening, the other more physically challenging.

You miss the point, my simple friend. I said nothing about the amount of work that goes into either. I'm talking in the spirit of the OP - that is, how do we comprehend the complexity of the task being undertaken as we do it? I've done athletics in my younger days - obviously not to Olympic level, but I can say that I was always more conscious of what was happening in my athletic pursuits than I was of musical pursuits. In something like long jump you can direct your concentration to almost every action you make, as you do it. When playing piano, a lot of what you do lets relegated to the unconscious - or different things are shifting in and out of consciousness, but you can't keep most of it in your conscious mind at any given moment. I put this down to the huge number of processes going on when playing piano - aural, haptic memory, reading two clefs, rhythmic coordination, emotional expression, and a whole bunch of other stuff. It's an exceedingly complex task and it is very impressive when somebody can learn it to any decent degree.

Well, somebody did, so I gave my thoughts. Leave your outrage at the door. Nobody denies the accomplishments of athletes or the amount of work they do, but that doesn't prove the same level of accomplishment on all levels. eg. I don't think harmonic understanding and musical memory plays a huge role in the long jump. Just as running very fast plays little role in a Chopin Mazurka. You don't have to play this faux outrage game in your effort to equate all accomplishments (maybe you lack the experience to comprehend athletics so that's why it's so stunning to you). Just relax and accept that different endeavours ask different things of us. I'm impressed by both, but I'm more impressed by what the brain is doing as it pertains to piano than I am by athletics. And ultimately this thread is about what the brain is doing - not about athletic prowess.

Indeed.

Don't underestimate the physical challenge of piano playing.

I certainly don't! But nobody gives you a gold medal for being the fastest piano player.

This is obvious, which is why comparing piano playing to Olympic speed skating is ridiculous.


It's almost impossible to not be impressed by both. Of course there is going to be some bias (and even some kind of superiority complex) in these forums, which is expected, but I find no reason to believe that the brain isn't equally active during Olympic sports.

Both piano playing and Olympic sports are reduced to motor skills, which are a function of the brain. They are equally amazing, bias aside.

I can practically smell the superiority complex.

Indeed.

Some years ago, I watched Maurizio Pollini playing Chopin's 4th Ballade from close up (less than 20ft away), because I managed to wrangle myself one of the ultra-cheap 'student seats' on the back of the platform.

He, as usual, played the fast sections with great ferocity, but I was still surprised to see him panting hard during the brief respite of the soft chords just before the coda - almost like he'd just finished a 10K race.

Maybe that's just because he's a life-long heavy smoker.......

You need to get your olfactory organ tested, my friend.

I don't know what issues you have with people who play the piano well, and who know a lot, lot more about playing the piano than you, that you feel the need to repeatedly put people down, and keep finding 'condescension' when the only condescension is from yourself (as in constantly showing off your limited knowledge gained from Googling), but - to stay on the present subject - as I have competed in many sports which are in the Olympics, including 10000m and marathon, and white-water kayaking and rowing, I can say that, if anything, I disengage my brain ('dissociation') when I'm in an endurance event, to reduce the feeling of strain and fatigue.

Other athletes might prefer 'association' where they concentrate on their breathing and their foot strike etc, but that's hardly engaging the brain like a pianist has to do. Only in the closing moments, when I look ahead to see who's in front and how far I have to go, who I might have a chance of passing, and how much I've got left in the tank for the finishing sprint, do I actually use my brain for a bit of mental calculation. Even in a skills event like kayaking, it's all down to rapid learnt actions and sheer brute force, once you've acquired the skills of 'reading' the water.

I sincerely hope you're not as prickly, contemptuous in manner, combative and constantly looking for a fight in real life as you seem to be in these forums.

Congrats, you are not in the majority. Also, just because you think you "disengage" your brain, that does not mean your brain is not active. How naive of you.

I play competitive racquetball and it's extremely taxing on the mind. There is a butt-load of thought involved during play.

Most competitive athletes will say the same. At your physical limit, it becomes a mind game. Once again, the superiority complex is strong here.