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Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2153893
09/19/13 03:21 PM
09/19/13 03:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,557
Sandy Eggo, California
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Chuck, please keep posting photos and progress updates.

Yes, it's great to have fellow professionals who are willing to pool their knowledge and experience for the betterment of their peers.

Now I'm just waiting for the day when I can say something of substance...



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
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Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: OperaTenor] #2158290
09/26/13 09:02 PM
09/26/13 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline OP
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Boone, Iowa, USA
Quote
"Chuck, please keep posting photos and progress updates." - Jim Boydston


Hi Jim, Del and all - Here's a few more photos to catch you up-to-date with our Chickering pinblock project. Having gotten this far, I'm convinced that this is the way to go.

Photo 9: Since the pinblocks were routed out for 1" inserts, I had to run pinblock stock through the planer. One advantage of this is that narrow and/or irregular pieces of pinblock stock could be used to make the inserts:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 10: Inserts were then cut to fit:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 11: Using the West Epoxy System, the inserts were glued into place:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 12: The completed bass insert:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 13: and the treble inserts:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Tonight I'm painting them black (as they were originally done) and tomorrow, I'll be drilling them so we can return the plate to the piano.

Thanks Del and all for the information on how to get this done. It was a huge time saver. Chuck

Last edited by Chuck Behm; 09/27/13 05:18 PM.

Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
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515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2158823
09/27/13 09:26 PM
09/27/13 09:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Hi all - Here's one more set of photos documenting the final steps of the process we used for installing new pinblock panels on the Chickering grand in our shop. I really haven't included much in the way of explanation of any of the steps, so if any of you have questions about any of the photos, don't be afraid to ask. This method, I believe, would be great for any grand with a unusual flange profile, as long as the original pinblock was free of dry rot, or separating laminations. Now, the photos:

Photo 14: With the finishing touches done (filling in pinhole on bottom of pinblocks, filling in screw holes used to affix blocks to bench, etc.) the 2 blocks were painted black, as they had been done originally:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 15: The blocks were screwed down to the plate. Dave and I then flipped the plate right-side up on the sawhorses. This particular plate seems to be way heavier than usual - either that or we're getting too old for moving these things around:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 16: With the plate right side up, I use a centering punch to mark the pin holes:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 17: I remove the pinblocks from the plate again, and drill the pin holes on the drill press:
[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 18: Upside down this time, I screw the pinblocks back in place for the final time. I'm getting too old for this stuff!

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 19: Dave uses the hoist to lower the plate into the piano.

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Photo 20:The Eagle has landed, and we're done for the week.

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

That completes the work on the pinblock. Dave will repin and restring the piano, while I work on the keyboard and action. Hope to have it ready to deliver on Sept. 17, since our mover will be here to pick up 2 other pianos for delivery.

Again, any questions don't hestitate to ask. Thanks again to Del and others for the mentoring. Best wishes, all, and have a great weekend! Chuck


Last edited by Chuck Behm; 09/27/13 10:19 PM.

Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
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"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2158883
09/28/13 12:56 AM
09/28/13 12:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 430
AZ, USA
Tuneless Offline
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Oct. 17 ?


Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano yet but getting there.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.
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Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Tuneless] #2158933
09/28/13 05:15 AM
09/28/13 05:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
C
Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Quote
"Oct. 17?" - Cynthia


Hi Cynthia - well, it could be Sept. 17, 2014, couldn't it? No, you're right. October 17 my mover is coming to pick up a restored upright we've sold, plus a Chickering spinet we did for a gal in Iowa City. I'd like to have the grand done as well, but I know it's a long shot. I've still got work to do on the spinet as well. Plus, I need to get out and do some tuning to pay the bills. Yikes! Chuck


Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2234697
02/20/14 06:35 AM
02/20/14 06:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 376
Florida, Connecticut
gynnis Offline
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Florida, Connecticut
The world really is flat!


Seiler 206, Chickering 145, Estey 2 manual reed organ, Fudge clavichord, Zuckerman single harpsichord, Technics P-30, Roland RD-100.
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: gynnis] #2234731
02/20/14 08:43 AM
02/20/14 08:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
C
Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Quote
The world really is flat! - Gynnis


Dear Gynnis - I have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about, but I would like to mention that the piano in question is finally done. I got side-tracked with other projects, and kept putting off the final stages of the job.

If you (or anyone) would like to see the end result, I posted a short video clip on my Facebook page at Behm Piano Service. If you have a look please keep in mind that (1). I am the world's worst piano player, and (2). the recording was made on a $90 point and shoot digital camera with no external mike. So, don't have great expectations.

I did try to post my rendition of "Satin Doll," which I can actually play quite well, but apparently the recording was too long to be able to download onto Facebook. So Molly Malone had to do.

Some day I'll find time to practice the stack of music I have out in the shop! Best wishes, all. Chuck


Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2234773
02/20/14 10:05 AM
02/20/14 10:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 376
Florida, Connecticut
gynnis Offline
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Chuck, this was an amazing set of photos for an open heart surgery. I'm just starting my 145. Fortunately, the pin block and sound board in mine seem to be good. Just a lot of action work to do. Your's has the same finish.


Seiler 206, Chickering 145, Estey 2 manual reed organ, Fudge clavichord, Zuckerman single harpsichord, Technics P-30, Roland RD-100.
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2234779
02/20/14 10:10 AM
02/20/14 10:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 376
Florida, Connecticut
gynnis Offline
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gynnis  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 376
Florida, Connecticut
The World is Flat is a book from 2004 about how the internet has flattened the world. It is referring to the fact that traditional hierarchies are disappearing and people are able to collaborate around the world on an individual basis. How far are you from Coon Rapids or Ames? I provided a pipe organ to a church in Coon Rapids (for free) about 25 years ago, and I spent a long hot summer at Ames about 35 years ago.


Seiler 206, Chickering 145, Estey 2 manual reed organ, Fudge clavichord, Zuckerman single harpsichord, Technics P-30, Roland RD-100.
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: gynnis] #2235168
02/20/14 09:46 PM
02/20/14 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
C
Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Quote
The World is Flat is a book from 2004 about how the internet has flattened the world. It is referring to the fact that traditional hierarchies are disappearing and people are able to collaborate around the world on an individual basis. - Gynnis



Gynnis - Ah, an obscure literary reference - I like that. I just thought you were pulling a Tristram Shandy on me. Well, I'll try to get it next time.

Boone is 15 miles west of Ames, Iowa, and it's always hot here in the summer. Thus, my shop has two air conditioners which run pretty much all the time from the beginning of July (or earlier) till the end of August (or later). It's also really cold in the winter, which is why I have three heaters which run from about November until the end of March. My electric bill isn't pretty. Chuck



Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2235863
02/22/14 09:17 AM
02/22/14 09:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
new york city
James Carney Offline
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James Carney  Offline
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Posts: 440
new york city
Chuck,

Thanks for taking the time to post all these detailed photos of your work, and the methods you use to setup for routing - looks great!

What did you use to clamp the new inserts to the old block? Del had suggested screws every 75-100mm apart but I didn't see that in your photos. Did you use gobars instead?


Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: James Carney] #2235936
02/22/14 11:48 AM
02/22/14 11:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,531
Olympia, Washington
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Del Offline
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Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by James Carney
What did you use to clamp the new inserts to the old block? Del had suggested screws every 75-100mm apart but I didn't see that in your photos. Did you use gobars instead?

I suggested the screws, not as clamps, but as insurance. Some years back we did some soundboard and bridge repairs to several uprights that had been "rebuilt" elsewhere. Two of these had pinblock inserts and both of them had pulled loose. There were several reasons for this: they were not well fitted to begin with, the quality of the epoxy used was suspect and there were some problems with how the actual installation was done. But, after seeing this I thought it prudent to install the screws as insurance. They're pretty cheap as insurance goes.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2235948
02/22/14 12:14 PM
02/22/14 12:14 PM
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Chuck, great documentation. Very informative,
especially for a newbie.

And now for the newbie questions:

1) I assume it's better and easier to keep the original
pinblock, and bore out and glue in the inserts as you have done, because the alignment of the holes of the original do not have to be re-created? Are there cases where you just re-do the whole thing?

2) Looking at this thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1682729/Drilling%20a%20pinblock.html

It appears a 7 degree pin hole angle towards the keyboard is standard, but some people prefer 3-4 degrees. Maybe I missed it, but how did you set the angle using the drill press?


I'll probably never have to do this, but I'm still curious...

Last edited by Paul678; 02/22/14 12:15 PM.
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Paul678] #2236248
02/23/14 07:13 AM
02/23/14 07:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline OP
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Hi Paul - Whenever I can, I replace the entire pin block. However, with the stepped configuration of the flange of the plate, and the precision with which the holes for the bolts holding the block to the plate would need to be drilled, I honestly doubted that my woodworking abilities would be up to the job. Saving the outer perimeter of the old block and replacing just the pin fields seemed like the way to best get the job done.

As far as setting my drill press for the correct angle, the table on my drill press tilts from back to front instead of from side-to-side. It has an indicator under the table that shows the degrees of tilt. Unfortunately, most (if not all) models of drill presses currently being sold come with the side-to-side type of adjustment.

Before my current drill press (which is a Delta) I had a standard drill press with the side-to-side adjustment. I had a plywood platform that I bolted to the top of the table for that drill which I had shimmed up in the back to a 7 degree inclination.

Thanks for the great questions! Chuck


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"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: James Carney] #2236249
02/23/14 07:29 AM
02/23/14 07:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline OP
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Hi James - As far as clamps, just weights. I don't have a go-bar deck (since I don't replace soundboards, never felt the need for building one) and for this particular application, it would be overkill anyway.

I installed screws along the perimeter as Del had suggested, but wasn't able to find more than a few locations on either side of the blocks that would work. Here's a photo:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Thanks for the questions, James. Have a great weekend! Chuck


Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2236296
02/23/14 10:21 AM
02/23/14 10:21 AM
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Posts: 27,008
Oakland
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BDB Offline
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Originally Posted by Chuck Behm
As far as setting my drill press for the correct angle, the table on my drill press tilts from back to front instead of from side-to-side. It has an indicator under the table that shows the degrees of tilt. Unfortunately, most (if not all) models of drill presses currently being sold come with the side-to-side type of adjustment.


Shopsmith!


Semipro Tech
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: BDB] #2236317
02/23/14 10:56 AM
02/23/14 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
C
Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Quote
"Shopsmith!" - BDB


Hi BDB - Does that feature just come with their multi-tool set-up? Shopsmith doesn't sell a stand-alone drill press do they? Chuck


Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
Re: Fitting Stepped Pinblock to Plate in Chickering Grand [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E] #2236334
02/23/14 11:30 AM
02/23/14 11:30 AM
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Posts: 27,008
Oakland
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BDB Offline
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That is the way the multi-tool works. There are so many other things that it does that are useful for a piano technician that I could not imagine not having one.

Here is my hammer drilling set-up, which allows me to drill a set of hammers by half-degree increments in about half an hour:

[Linked Image]


Semipro Tech
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