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Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: pianoloverus] #2233172
02/17/14 02:38 PM
02/17/14 02:38 PM
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Actually, my reference to playbooks vs. concerto scores, was simply a comparison of the mental "power" needed to memorize and consistently perform either.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2233200
02/17/14 03:17 PM
02/17/14 03:17 PM
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(What made it look like we didn't know that?) smile

Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: Mark_C] #2233259
02/17/14 04:45 PM
02/17/14 04:45 PM
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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(The response from Derulux and the direction it took.)


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: pianoloverus] #2233301
02/17/14 05:43 PM
02/17/14 05:43 PM
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Yep, I didn't completely follow what you were saying. I still think it's a very difficult comparison, for many of the same reasons, but I better understand where you meant your original statement to go. Thanks for clarifying! smile

An intriguing continuance of the idea -- would we be able to say with any certainty that more "directions/instructions" are written into the concerti than into the playbooks? Obviously, there is an element in each where you reach a point at which you have to interpret what's written and make it usable in your medium. But if we could say that there are more instructions in the concerti, then we could consider the information denser. That would certainly affect the height of each pile.

Then, to push ahead again, we could talk about which type of intelligence is held in higher regard given the circumstances.

I'm not sure there's a satisfying answer to this, but it is intriguing -- at least to me, anyway. grin


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: pianoloverus] #2233319
02/17/14 06:30 PM
02/17/14 06:30 PM
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I have never met a dumb concert pianist.

I've also have met a number of pro football (non-soccer) players, and well, ...

Though, ...

Reflecting on the past pages, there seems to be an attempt to designate between intelligence, ability (talent), and street smarts in various applications. It is, indeed, intriguing.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: pianoloverus] #2233338
02/17/14 07:07 PM
02/17/14 07:07 PM
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I think we would have to consider a definition of "dumb" or even "intelligence" in order to assess that one. I've been around football players my whole life, at all levels of play, and I haven't met any that I would consider "dumb". Many speak differently, and some are "thugged-out", but the way they choose to communicate is very different from an assessment of their level of intelligence.

Did you know, at most universities, football players rank among the highest academic performers? Most universities (and all conferences, as far as I know) require football players to maintain a 3.0 GPA.

OU's Gabe Ikard (offensive line) maintains a 4.0, prepping for medical school post-football: http://espn.go.com/colleges/oklahom...ahoma-sooners-gabe-ikard-puts-extra-work




Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: pianoloverus] #2233385
02/17/14 08:36 PM
02/17/14 08:36 PM
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Well, dumb = low IQ. Not to be confused with ignorant. Also, not to be confused with 'deaf and dumb.'

And, with this, the whole discussion/debate starts anew.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: pianoloverus] #2233398
02/17/14 09:08 PM
02/17/14 09:08 PM
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Playing quality football (I'm referring to 'gridiron' football here) definitely requires smarts...however one could also wonder at the wisdom of smashing into one another as hard as possible...


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2233430
02/17/14 10:44 PM
02/17/14 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Well, dumb = low IQ. Not to be confused with ignorant. Also, not to be confused with 'deaf and dumb.'

And, with this, the whole discussion/debate starts anew.

It certainly does! haha grin

I haven't found an "average IQ" for a football player, but the Wonderlics score is meant to indicate that a 20=100 IQ. So, let's assume each Wonderlics point = 5 IQ points to generate a rough estimate.

If we take the average of the players on a team, we arrive at an average IQ of 105-110. That certainly doesn't qualify as "dumb".


Another interesting caveat here: IQ measures what you've learned over time as an indication of what you could learn over time.. meaning it's a measurement of what you actually learned, not a "true" measurement of what you're capable of learning. When you remove the social caveat of anti-learning prevalent among certain groups, particularly the disadvantaged (excluding race), who knows what these people would be capable of... meaning, of course, that if they cared about learning in general, they might well score very high marks on any standardized test such as Wonderlics or IQ. wink

EDIT:
Quote
Playing quality football (I'm referring to 'gridiron' football here) definitely requires smarts...however one could also wonder at the wisdom of smashing into one another as hard as possible...

There is no wisdom to it, and I've told my dad that many times!!!! grin

Of course, I'm the idiot who was too afraid to get hit in football as a kid, so I chose martial arts instead. Put another way: I actively decided to take the pads off, and get punched and kicked at much higher velocities, and much more often, than at least provide myself with some sort of protection. (This has always been my dad's argument against me.. lol)

Last edited by Derulux; 02/17/14 10:47 PM.

Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: pianoloverus] #2233441
02/17/14 11:11 PM
02/17/14 11:11 PM
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Sports? Who Me?

I was the kid who practiced the piano and did his homework.

I guess I was smart enough to not destroy my body, and that's not dumb at all.

grin


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: Derulux] #2233455
02/17/14 11:46 PM
02/17/14 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Derulux
[...]

EDIT:
Quote
Playing quality football (I'm referring to 'gridiron' football here) definitely requires smarts...however one could also wonder at the wisdom of smashing into one another as hard as possible...

There is no wisdom to it, and I've told my dad that many times!!!! grin

Of course, I'm the idiot who was too afraid to get hit in football as a kid, so I chose martial arts instead. Put another way: I actively decided to take the pads off, and get punched and kicked at much higher velocities, and much more often, than at least provide myself with some sort of protection. (This has always been my dad's argument against me.. lol)


I think that martial arts (traditional ones; not that "mixed martial arts" stuff you see on TV) are not going to result in the same types of injuries that football players accrue over time. I remember seeing a study fairly recently that shows that football players suffer from similar traumatic brain injuries that soldiers who are in close proximity to explosions get.

Of course, if you go around trying to smash stacks of bricks... grin


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2233472
02/18/14 12:48 AM
02/18/14 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Sports? Who Me?

I was the kid who practiced the piano and did his homework.

I guess I was smart enough to not destroy my body, and that's not dumb at all.

grin

I did both. I've competed at the world level in martial arts, and my body isn't much worse for the war. (I meant "wear". wink )

Originally Posted by Horowitzian
I think that martial arts (traditional ones; not that "mixed martial arts" stuff you see on TV) are not going to result in the same types of injuries that football players accrue over time. I remember seeing a study fairly recently that shows that football players suffer from similar traumatic brain injuries that soldiers who are in close proximity to explosions get.

Of course, if you go around trying to smash stacks of bricks...

A lot of this has to do with the goal of a martial arts school. Most schools are more interested in getting your dollars than preparing you for a world-class fight. Also, many insurance policies offer significant cost-savings for reduced/eliminated contact sparring. So, a lot of the times you get very watered-down martial arts, often coupled with very little contact (note: I separate the two as mutually exclusive), which leads to fewer traumatic injuries -- particularly of the concussive kind.

Aside from that, it's difficult to argue with a 245 pound linebacker coming at you with the instantaneous psi force of a tractor-trailer (around 150G).


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent? [Re: pianoloverus] #2233826
02/18/14 05:26 PM
02/18/14 05:26 PM
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Horowitzian Offline
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Yeah, I agree that there is a large difference between the kind of stuff kids learn vs. fighting systems/martial arts that are intended for real life situations (e.g. Krav Maga).


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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