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Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
pianoloverus #2232306 02/15/14 10:45 PM
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I think we can start to make some inferences about the average intelligence of baseball players. grin


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Polyphonist
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Polyphonist #2232309 02/15/14 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
I think we can start to make some inferences about the average intelligence of baseball players. grin

OH YEAH? grin

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you.....MOE BERG.

"....catcher and coach in Major League Baseball who later served as a spy for the Office of Strategic Services during World War II.
A graduate of Princeton University and Columbia Law School, Berg spoke several languages and regularly read 10 newspapers a day.
Berg received a B.A. [Princeton], magna cum laude in modern languages....Beginning in his sophomore year, he was the starting shortstop....Berg and Crossan Cooper, Princeton's second baseman, communicated plays in Latin when there was a man on second base...."


.....and of course I don't think anybody will doubt that he was a pretty typical baseball player. ha

Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
phantomFive #2232323 02/15/14 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist

Precisely. Ravel's Bolero does not fit into the category of "a composition for voice or voices."

Oops, I didn't mean to say that it is a song, I meant to say that it's okay to call something a song, so long as it actually is a song, even though it was written by a "master of the past" :P

Originally Posted by phantomFive

something can be less than its full potential, but still not be weak

Ugh, my last teacher had this view that anything that wasn't played to her own standards (which were arbitrarily set by interpretations from Horowitz, Argerich, and some others) was "bad" and not worth listening to. Glad to say I'm no longer her student smile


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Atrys #2232331 02/15/14 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Atrys
Originally Posted by Polyphonist

Precisely. Ravel's Bolero does not fit into the category of "a composition for voice or voices."

Oops, I didn't mean to say that it is a song, I meant to say that it's okay to call something a song, so long as it actually is a song, even though it was written by a "master of the past" :P

Yes, of course. If it actually is a song, or if the composer calls it a song, then it's fine.


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Polyphonist
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Polyphonist #2232368 02/16/14 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by phantomFive
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Implying that Beethoven's isn't, so indeed you are saying Beethoven's instrumentation is weak.


Why don't you understand that something can be less than its full potential, but still not be weak?

Is anything ever at its full potential?


Incidentally, don't think that because it could be better, that I could make it better. I'm just a critic; I can see that it could be better, but couldn't make it better myself. Those who can, do; those who can't, criticize. smile


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
phantomFive #2232369 02/16/14 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by phantomFive
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by phantomFive
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Implying that Beethoven's isn't, so indeed you are saying Beethoven's instrumentation is weak.


Why don't you understand that something can be less than its full potential, but still not be weak?

Is anything ever at its full potential?


Incidentally, don't think that because it could be better, that <i>I</i> could make it better. I'm just a critic; I can see that it could be better, but couldn't make it better myself. Those who can, do; those who can't, criticize. smile

Yes, but don't evade the question. Anything can be improved; do you disagree?


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Polyphonist
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Polyphonist #2232371 02/16/14 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by phantomFive
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by phantomFive
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Implying that Beethoven's isn't, so indeed you are saying Beethoven's instrumentation is weak.


Why don't you understand that something can be less than its full potential, but still not be weak?

Is anything ever at its full potential?


Incidentally, don't think that because it could be better, that <i>I</i> could make it better. I'm just a critic; I can see that it could be better, but couldn't make it better myself. Those who can, do; those who can't, criticize. smile

Yes, but don't evade the question. Anything can be improved; do you disagree?

Your purpose in asking the question was to evade the question! Stop it with your logical fallacies, failing to read links people post, and failing to even read posts people post!


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
pianoloverus #2232377 02/16/14 01:45 AM
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No, I wasn't evading the question, it was a roundabout way of answering it. Can something be less than its full potential and not be weak? Obviously, because if it couldn't then everything would be weak. Of course, that would really mean nothing is weak, but that's another story. grin


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Polyphonist #2232388 02/16/14 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
No, I wasn't evading the question, it was a roundabout way of answering it. Can something be less than its full potential and not be weak? Obviously, because if it couldn't then everything would be weak. Of course, that would really mean nothing is weak, but that's another story. grin

Anyway, I've given my opinion, and explained why I hold that opinion. If you disagree, that's fine, I have nothing else to add.


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
pianoloverus #2232538 02/16/14 11:15 AM
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If one stacked the scores of the concerti which a concert pianist has memorized, and compared it to the playbook from an NFL team, which would be higher?

Hut


Marty in Minnesota

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Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Minnesota Marty #2232629 02/16/14 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
If one stacked the scores of the concerti which a concert pianist has memorized, and compared it to the playbook from an NFL team, which would be higher?

Hut

I think that would depend on which position we were talking about, but really, I think the two are not comparable. Yes, in both there are other people interacting with you to affect the outcome, but in music, they are working with you, while in football, at least half of them are trying to stop you.. imagine if each section in the orchestra suddenly switched to a different concerto and the pianist had to keep up. That might be a little closer of a comparison.. grin


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Polyphonist #2232637 02/16/14 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
I think we can start to make some inferences about the average intelligence of baseball players. grin

If I ever go to America I am going to want to go to a Baseball game, as a motor racing fan I would like to see a NASCAR race, the Sebring 12 hours and the Indy 500 too, but a baseball game is a definite and first on the list. I have watched it over here and I love the atmosphere and the noise, the history of it all and so on, however I am most unlikely to want to go to a piano recital.
Although I do wish Baseball players would stop spitting, revolting behaviour and a very poor example to the young.
I don't attend anything to marvel at the intelligence of the participants, I couldn't care less about that.

Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Derulux #2232643 02/16/14 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Derulux
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
If one stacked the scores of the concerti which a concert pianist has memorized, and compared it to the playbook from an NFL team, which would be higher?

Hut

I think that would depend on which position we were talking about, but really, I think the two are not comparable. Yes, in both there are other people interacting with you to affect the outcome, but in music, they are working with you, while in football, at least half of them are trying to stop you.. imagine if each section in the orchestra suddenly switched to a different concerto and the pianist had to keep up. That might be a little closer of a comparison.. grin


This is always a fun one to dig out of the pile when football and classical music are mentioned in the same breath:

http://youtu.be/f0vHpeUO5mw?t=1m5s


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
slipperykeys #2232647 02/16/14 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by slipperykeys
If I ever go to America I am going to want to go to a Baseball game, as a motor racing fan I would like to see a NASCAR race, the Sebring 12 hours and the Indy 500 too, but a baseball game is a definite and first on the list.

Music to my eyes. grin

I don't know if it's still true but for sure in the past, baseball was considered one of the most quintessentially "American" things, and it was a thing that many immigrants embraced as a big part of feeling like they were becoming "American."

Quote
I have watched it over here and I love the atmosphere and the noise, the history of it all....

Remarkable, I think, for someone overseas!

Quote
....Although I do wish Baseball players would stop spitting....

Me too. I try to understand almost anything, but I don't understand that. The excuse used to be that when you're chewing tobacco you have to spit (not that I understand why someone would chew tobacco either), but now, I think very few of them do that, but they still do the other.

BTW I don't think I've ever seen Derek Jeter spit. If anyone sees that he does it, please post. grin

Originally Posted by Derulux
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
If one stacked the scores of the concerti which a concert pianist has memorized, and compared it to the playbook from an NFL team, which would be higher?....
I think that would depend on which position we were talking about....

Not that this is necessarily related to remembering plays (I think it isn't), but....We actually have data on intelligence test performance of NFL players according to position. (Something called the "Wonderlic" test is given routinely to players when coming to the NFL from college, i.e. at the thing called "the combine.")

The results are a surprise. Quarterback only comes in 3rd. And in order to guess which position is #1, I think you'd have to be extremely....um.....intelligent. Or more likely, stupid and lucky. ha

Wiki link

Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
This is always a fun one to dig out of the pile when football and classical music are mentioned in the same breath....

BTW, did you know....PDQ Bach concerts are coming back. The website just sent out notices a couple of days ago that they'll be resuming next year.
And this 'piece' will be on the programs. smile

Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Cinnamonbear #2232650 02/16/14 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
This is always a fun one to dig out of the pile when football and classical music are mentioned in the same breath....

BTW, did you know....PDQ Bach concerts are coming back. The website just sent out notices a couple of days ago that they'll be resuming next year.
And this 'piece' will be on the programs. smile


You mean, like this?


Last edited by Cinnamonbear; 02/16/14 03:30 PM.

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Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Cinnamonbear #2232655 02/16/14 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted by Derulux
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
If one stacked the scores of the concerti which a concert pianist has memorized, and compared it to the playbook from an NFL team, which would be higher?

Hut

I think that would depend on which position we were talking about, but really, I think the two are not comparable. Yes, in both there are other people interacting with you to affect the outcome, but in music, they are working with you, while in football, at least half of them are trying to stop you.. imagine if each section in the orchestra suddenly switched to a different concerto and the pianist had to keep up. That might be a little closer of a comparison.. grin


This is always a fun one to dig out of the pile when football and classical music are mentioned in the same breath:

http://youtu.be/f0vHpeUO5mw?t=1m5s


ha that's awesome

Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
pianoloverus #2232681 02/16/14 04:09 PM
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Nothing like a little PDQ Bach to extrapolate on the idea of sports in music! I have never been able to determine for myself whether I would enjoy an entire program performed like that, or if, after half an hour, it loses its appeal for me. But the shorter clips like these are great. grin

Originally Posted by Mark C
The results are a surprise. Quarterback only comes in 3rd. And in order to guess which position is #1, I think you'd have to be extremely....um.....intelligent. Or more likely, stupid and lucky.

Or the son of a football coach. wink I actually do know the answer to this, but it's different depending on the quarterback. For a right-handed quarterback, it's the left tackle. For a left-handed quarterback, the right tackle.

The first few minutes of the movie, "Blind Side", gives a pretty good explanation why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m21SyRj7B_8


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Derulux #2232708 02/16/14 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Derulux
....it's different depending on the quarterback. For a right-handed quarterback, it's the left tackle. For a left-handed quarterback, the right tackle.....

Probably! Or at least that's how they should do it.

I first thought of this a few years ago when the NY Jets used their 1st draft pick on an offensive tackle (D'Brickashaw Ferguson) and the analysts were saying this-and-that about how big it was to get a great left offensive tackle. I wondered, why the emphasis on "left" -- and it wasn't hard to figure that it was about protecting the QB's blind side.

And as for why offensive tackle would tend to be a more 'intelligent' position than (say) offensive guard.....I DON'T KNOW. grin
I'd guess it's that they have more on-the-fly decisions to make, maybe because they're usually up against defensive ends rather than defensive tackles and the DE's are more athletic and have a broader "repertoire" than the DT's.
BTW, offensive center is a very close 2nd to offensive tackle.

P.S. I guess you really mean that you dad is/was a football coach!!

Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Cinnamonbear #2232715 02/16/14 04:42 PM
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How's this for one player "carrying the team".... ha



BTW, when Perlman talked about the supposed Russian virtuoso being a "once in a generation" talent, I was surprised at the cliche. But its reason soon emerged. grin

Re: Are professional pianists highly intelligent?
Mark_C #2232721 02/16/14 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Derulux
....it's different depending on the quarterback. For a right-handed quarterback, it's the left tackle. For a left-handed quarterback, the right tackle.....

Probably! Or at least that's how they should do it.

I first thought of this a few years ago when the NY Jets used their 1st draft pick on an offensive tackle (D'Brickashaw Ferguson) and the analysts were saying this-and-that about how big it was to get a great left offensive tackle. I wondered, why the emphasis on "left" -- and it wasn't hard to figure that it was about protecting the QB's blind side.

And as for why offensive tackle would tend to be a more 'intelligent' position than (say) offensive guard.....I DON'T KNOW. grin
I'd guess it's that they have more on-the-fly decisions to make, maybe because they're usually up against defensive ends rather than defensive tackles and the DE's are more athletic and have a broader "repertoire" than the DT's.
BTW, offensive center is a very close 2nd to offensive tackle.

P.S. I guess you really mean that you dad is/was a football coach!!

Yep, he was! smile He started out as an offensive line coach, then became offensive coordinator, then eventually head coach. High school and college level. Had a couple opportunities to go pro, but didn't want to take the time away from his kids. He retired from coaching around '90-92 (years, not age grin ).

Most of what happens on a football field happens at the line of scrimmage. Your offensive line is going to determine the success of your running/passing game well before your quarterback, running back, or receivers have the opportunity to make a play.


Great PDQ Bach performance.. as soon as it started, I saw John Williams and had to watch the rest. grin


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
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