2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
61 members (cfhosford, brennbaer, Carey, bilb, CodySean, 19 invisible), 912 guests, and 557 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 17 of 20 1 2 15 16 17 18 19 20
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
P
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
Originally Posted by Roland The Beagle
Give everyone the same opportunities in life and I bet there would be a lot more 'geniuses' around.

You might be surprised how much brilliance comes from unfortunate life circumstances.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 268
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 268
The concept of genius being limited to 'intellectual' ability has no basis in physical reality, but it's such an old conceptual construction that it won't die away easily.

Excelling in any aspect that is controlled by the brain is a form of genius. There is no sports player who ever lived who was a legend that didn't also have a very keen mind. That mind may not have been devoted to excessive internal dialog, but instead it was directed it outward to mastery over their own body while still maintaining the necessary 'sports IQ' to outmaneuver their opponents. If you've played enough games and competitive activities, you know that at the higher levels of the game, it's almost entirely mental. When physical limits have been maximized it becomes a test of mental fortitude, focus, and instinct.

Sports are highly creative, but obviously not in the same way a musician would recognize.

Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Roland The Beagle
Give everyone the same opportunities in life and I bet there would be a lot more 'geniuses' around.

You might be surprised how much brilliance comes from unfortunate life circumstances.


Very true, but I feel this supports my point more than detracts from it. Unfortunate circumstances in life can instill a fire in some individuals - a spark of endless motivation to push themselves and excel. This on it's own isn't brilliance, but it leads to brilliance. Once you have that fire, you have the mind-over-matter motivation to exercise your brain to the limits.

Although I was comfortable growing up, a bit later in my life I had some very, very rough times. Coming out of it, I've had the motivation to really push myself to achieve excellence and there's no doubt this has made me smarter. If you work at remembering everything instead of relying on electronic devices, your memory gets better. If you try to do all calculations in your head instead of pulling out a calculator, your calculations get better. If you work on music in your head and force yourself to hear everything before you play the note, your mental practice gets better.

Motivation and passion give us the means sharpens our minds, and so many a brilliant individual emerges from a harsh life. On the flip side, many a comfortable individual allows their blade to become dull in complacency and forfeits their potential.

Last edited by Roland The Beagle; 02/15/14 02:35 AM.

Danzas Argentinas, Alberto Ginastera
Piano Sonata Hob. XVI: 34 in E Minor, Franz Joseph Haydn
Nocturne, Op. 15 No. 1 in F Major, Frédéric Chopin
Prelude, Op. 11 No. 4 in E Minor, Alexander Scriabin
Prelude and Fugue in G Major, Well-Tempered Clavier Vol. 2, Johann Sebastian Bach
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
P
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
But doesn't that support my point? None of the most brilliant musicians in history have had easy lives, and some of the greatest composers went through the greatest trauma - consider Beethoven's wreck of a childhood, followed by his struggle with deafness and the world.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
Bach lost everything when he was 9. His home, his parents. Half of his 20 children died young. His first wife died at 35 years. Beethoven, well, need I say anything? Schubert was ugly, poor, sick. Chopin was very sick and depressed all the time. Schumann ruined his hand and could never really play piano again. He also tried to kill himself and died an insane man.

There seems to be a pattern here...

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,622
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,622
Originally Posted by Roland The Beagle
Intelligence is most definitely not fixed, and you can increase your intelligence. Music is a great way to do this.

I do remember at least one study that looked at Noble Prize winners and there was no correlation between them and their IQ scores as future predictors of success.




Also, intelligence is often so narrowly defined. Sports athletes are geniuses - the brain makes no distinction between physical and mental because they are products of the same system.

Mozart was once credited with increasing one's intelligence (the 'Mozart effect' - K448, to be precise) - that's since been debunked, though you can still buy CDs purporting to improve your (unborn and born) offspring's intelligence......

As for 'sports intelligence' and 'genius', well, that depends on how you define those terms. ("When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less" - Humpty Dumpty grin).

As for Nobel Prize winners, I think you'll find that those who win the ones for science subjects - chemistry, physics etc (think Marie Curie, Alfred Einstein, Richard Feynman...) have very high IQs. Maybe not so much Nobel Peace Prize winners, or those for literature etc.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
Originally Posted by bennevis
As for Nobel Prize winners, I think you'll find that those who win the ones for science subjects - chemistry, physics etc (think Marie Curie, Alfred Einstein, Richard Feynman...) have very high IQs. Maybe not so much Nobel Peace Prize winners, or those for literature etc.

Richard Feynman said an IQ of 120 is good enough for physics.


Poetry is rhythm
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,154
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by JoelW
Bach lost everything when he was 9. His home, his parents. Half of his 20 children died young. His first wife died at 35 years. Beethoven, well, need I say anything? Schubert was ugly, poor, sick. Chopin was very sick and depressed all the time. Schumann ruined his hand and could never really play piano again. He also tried to kill himself and died an insane man.

There seems to be a pattern here...

But what about Rossini? The Mendelssohn siblings? Händel? Haydn?
They made great music as well.

I say that for some people, adversities can be a motivation; for others it can be a burden. In the end, it depends on what you want in your life.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
P
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
Originally Posted by patH
Originally Posted by JoelW
Bach lost everything when he was 9. His home, his parents. Half of his 20 children died young. His first wife died at 35 years. Beethoven, well, need I say anything? Schubert was ugly, poor, sick. Chopin was very sick and depressed all the time. Schumann ruined his hand and could never really play piano again. He also tried to kill himself and died an insane man.

There seems to be a pattern here...

But what about Rossini? The Mendelssohn siblings? Händel? Haydn?
They made great music as well.

None of them are as great as the composers Joel mentioned.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 189
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 189
What ever happened to MissMeowsic? You know, the one who revived this thread some 256 or so posts ago. Her revival post remains her one and only posting at Piano World. She certainly spurred some intense and wide-ranging debate on this topic!

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 215
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by Piano Doug
What ever happened to MissMeowsic? You know, the one who revived this thread some 256 or so posts ago. Her revival post remains her one and only posting at Piano World. She certainly spurred some intense and wide-ranging debate on this topic!


Would you have stuck around after seeing where your simple question went? "She" probably wondered what the heck she had done to deserve THAT!

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Originally Posted by phantomFive
Originally Posted by bennevis
As for Nobel Prize winners, I think you'll find that those who win the ones for science subjects - chemistry, physics etc (think Marie Curie, Alfred Einstein, Richard Feynman...) have very high IQs. Maybe not so much Nobel Peace Prize winners, or those for literature etc.

Richard Feynman said an IQ of 120 is good enough for physics.


That's because Feynman understood that IQ isn't everything.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,154
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by patH
But what about Rossini? The Mendelssohn siblings? Händel? Haydn?
They made great music as well.

None of them are as great as the composers Joel mentioned.

That's a matter of opinion.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
I have to admit, I don't know what Polyphonist means when he says "great".

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
P
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
Oh, just stop with that, Joel.

Originally Posted by patH
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by patH
But what about Rossini? The Mendelssohn siblings? Händel? Haydn?
They made great music as well.

None of them are as great as the composers Joel mentioned.

That's a matter of opinion.

To an extent, but the point is that many composers would not have been as great if they had not undergone what they did - Beethoven's deafness is a prime, prime example.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,622
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,622
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by phantomFive
Originally Posted by bennevis
As for Nobel Prize winners, I think you'll find that those who win the ones for science subjects - chemistry, physics etc (think Marie Curie, Alfred Einstein, Richard Feynman...) have very high IQs. Maybe not so much Nobel Peace Prize winners, or those for literature etc.

Richard Feynman said an IQ of 120 is good enough for physics.


That's because Feynman understood that IQ isn't everything.

Maybe also because his own IQ was "only" 125? wink (compared to Marie Curie's of 185).


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,378
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,378
Reggie Jackson (baseball player) was (and is) proud of his intelligence. smile
He was also, arguably, sometimes obnoxious, and not just about his prided intelligence. In fact, I don't know if he was arguably not obnoxious. ha

Famous exchange between him and teammate Mickey Rivers, not particularly known for intelligence:

Mickey: You're an idiot.
Reggie: Oh yeah? I happen to have an IQ of 160.
Mickey: Out of what, a thousand?
Reggie: What am I doing, talking to someone who can't read and write.
Mickey: Maybe you should stop reading and writing and start hitting.

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Oh, just stop with that, Joel.

Originally Posted by patH
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by patH
But what about Rossini? The Mendelssohn siblings? Händel? Haydn?
They made great music as well.

None of them are as great as the composers Joel mentioned.

That's a matter of opinion.

To an extent, but the point is that many composers would not have been as great if they had not undergone what they did - Beethoven's deafness is a prime, prime example.

If only Beethoven hadn't gone deaf at the moment he was learning to choose instrumentations, his symphonies wouldn't all sound like they were playing an organ.


Poetry is rhythm
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 410
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 410
My first baseball game as a kid was Yankee stadium and I can still feel the roar of the crowd when Mickey rivers hit a home run

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Oh, just stop with that, Joel.

Excuse me? I'm serious. When you say "great" I never know what you really mean. Are you talking about quality of music, or legacy, or depth, or what?

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
P
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
Originally Posted by phantomFive
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Oh, just stop with that, Joel.

Originally Posted by patH
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by patH
But what about Rossini? The Mendelssohn siblings? Händel? Haydn?
They made great music as well.

None of them are as great as the composers Joel mentioned.

That's a matter of opinion.

To an extent, but the point is that many composers would not have been as great if they had not undergone what they did - Beethoven's deafness is a prime, prime example.

If only Beethoven hadn't gone deaf at the moment he was learning to choose instrumentations, his symphonies wouldn't all sound like they were playing an organ.

Give me a break, please. Beethoven was able to write his greatest music only because of the detachment from the world that his deafness provided him.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Page 17 of 20 1 2 15 16 17 18 19 20

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
A Question about Messiaen's 10th regard
by MinscAndBoo - 06/13/21 03:35 PM
Andras Schiff & Bluthner
by cfhosford - 06/13/21 02:56 PM
Yamaha's GHS reliability
by witor - 06/13/21 02:08 PM
What is this rare brand: С. Rose & Co
by Lancasterspb - 06/13/21 01:21 PM
NP32 in 2021!
by Sid Ong - 06/13/21 01:15 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,492
Posts3,103,297
Members101,801
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5