Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards MIDI ports (or lack of) on new Roland HP504, HP506 and HP508

I notice that the new Rolands no longer have MIDI ports. Only a "USB COMPUTER port (USB type B)" (which the 505 etc had also).

So how would you connect this to an external sound module like the Integra-7, or a backing module like the BK-7m? Did Roland think this through?

yes - that's not a good idea from Roland. Standard MIDI is very useful still - and in the case of connecting other midi stuff such as modules, essential.

I suppose they reason that your are not going to need MIDI at home just like Yamaha think that you are not going to need string resonance on stage.

I assume the USB port "speaks MIDI" ?
and that a simple MIDI/USB adapter works.
This is what I and many others use to connect laptops to MIDI Keyboards.

IS THERE a problem ?

Check this Roland link, there is a midi implementation document to download..... all 45 pages of it!

http://www.roland.com/support/article/?q=manuals&p=HP506

Hmm, so every home DP maker (except the really cheap ones) for the last 20 years has thought that we need them, and now suddenly we don't? Arranger pianos have been popular since their inception, and I thought the reason Roland doesn't do them any more is because you can plug in a backing module... but now it seems, you can't.


USB devices are asymmetric - one is the host, uses an A-type connector, and provides power. The other is a peripheral and uses a B-type connector. The HPs actually have both, but the A-type is marked in the manual purely as a "USB MEMORY port", with no mention of MIDI. Therefore I would be very surprised if it does work with a MIDI/USB adaptor (which all are A-type).

I think the asymmetry of USB makes it fundamentally unsuitable for MIDI connections, which require a peer-to-peer relationship.


This probably refers to the MIDI over USB when attached to a computer. It doesn't help with connecting to any other MIDI device which does not act as a USB host.

This link probably refers to USB to midi adaptors.

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=usb+to+midi+adaptors

slipperykeys - did you read my post above? These adaptors are for USB A-type. Are you saying you can do MIDI through the piano's memory stick connection?

Here is a list of the connections available.

DC In jack
Input jack: Stereo miniature phone type
Output (L/Mono, R) jacks: 1/4-inch phone type
USB COMPUTER port: USB Type B
USB MEMORY port: USB Type A
Phones jacks (Stereo, with Twin Piano Individual Mode) x 2:
Stereo miniature phone type, Stereo 1/4-inch phone type

I have no idea what the USB sockets can be used for. I imagine that USB A is an input and USB B is an output but you would need to check. I have no idea what the 45 page midi implementation manual says as I never use midi.

If you have technical questions you wish to have answered this should help.

http://www.rolandforums.co.uk/

I suspect that much becomes clear if the manual is read.
(Read for understanding)

My GUESS is that USB A and USB B can correspond to MIDI IN and MIDI OUT (or the other way around) when configured appropriately.
There may be a MIDI THRU function, the manual would probably provide info on this.

Fortunately I am without such an instrument - WAYyyy out of date keyboard controller and mostly rack gear here, though I hook up to the laptop for software virtual instruments via an EMU MIDI/USB adapter from time to time, THAT appears to be bi-directional.

Did I suggest using the manual ?
No ?
Sorry about that, I had meant to.

Please read the manual.

But USB A and USB B are not AT ALL equivalent to MIDI IN and MIDI OUT. USB is assymentric as lolatu already said.



The point was not about 'technical questions'. The point was in answer to R B who asked:

IS THERE a problem?

.....to which lolatu answered:

I think the asymmetry of USB makes it fundamentally unsuitable for MIDI connections, which require a peer-to-peer relationship.

That's the point. Not having MIDI makes it impossible (or very complicated and expensive with USB to MIDI converters) to link instruments together in the way you can easily do with the old MIDI sockets.

Most people will simply be linking straight to a computer with their DP, and Roland, Casio etc, know this. But MIDI-less DPs are not a welcome development, in my view.

Question: could you link up a [Roland HP] DP direct to a Roland Integra-7 (or similar) using only MIDI over USB?

You would expect so, otherwise they have cutoff the possibility of buying one of their most expensive and best products - one that a DP buyer would very possibly want. But come on Roland - just put some damn MIDI ports in! It really is worth the extra $10 it would cost to put them in. Roland wrote the book on MIDI, implementation into any of their products is a breeze. Crazy that they left it out. They will lose sales over this - more than they save by not having it.

Totally agree (even that I don't need them)

Just looking at this;
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1301/specs/
I found two or three reference to Standard MIDI files Format 0,1
At least the spec column infers that it understands MIDI internally.
Of course, it could just mean that it can merely PLAY them from a thumb drive.
I guess that would be the MIDI IN USB port ?
I'm shooting in the dark here, surely it can WRITE MIDI files of what you play out TO a thumb drive ?
As you play it ?, or only as a dump of a file that it creates ?
I just went down the "Features" column on that web page, it IMPLIES only as a file dump.
If that is true - maybe they want you to NOT use superior tones from computers or whatever other external sound generators you like, perhaps understandable for a "Home" piano.

In which case ...BUMMERrrrrrrr


Unfortunately there is NOT a link to an owners manual on their web site, or I would have looked for something like "How to load & play MIDI a file".

The USB type B connector is usually both MIDI in and out. The type A connector is usually only for connecting a memory stick.

The difference between A and B (and the reason there are two types) is that type A is usually powered, while type B never is. I think that's why there has to be two different connectors.

Thanks for posting that link slipperykeys, for some odd reason I couldn't get to a manual for 504, 506, 508 from where I was on Roland support, just brochures.

Others folk;
See Various Settings (Function mode) beginning on page 52.

Yes, they DO show a loop with labels on "USB MIDI Out" going to a sequencer and from there back in via "USB MIDI In" to the sound generator.

They also address; SURPRISE...
copy/paste
MIDI Transmit Channel Settings (MIDI Transmit Channel)

I think this answers MOST of the concern ?

Type A is master, type B is slave.

To connect a MIDI device directly to another MIDI device (not computer), you need real MIDI jacks, not USB.

There are a few exceptions. This device can allow you to connect a USB device directly to a MIDI device:
http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml
and also one or more of the iConnectMIDI interfaces.

The Kronos is the only keyboard I'm aware of that allows you to directly connect another device over USB (i.e. a control surface or another keyboard to control/trigger the Korg's sounds).

I think this answers MOST of the concern ?

Well, I may have missed something, but it's not clear at all to me whether you can connect these new HP DPs to other midi equipment. For example: can you connect it directly to a Roland Integra-7. (I can't see how unless the Integra-7 can be configured as a HOST)

Can it be connected to a midi sound module such as an EMU Proteus or a Roland U110, Roland D110, etc etc?

Can you connect to a midi sequencer using MIDI IN/OUT/THROUGH?

Of course you can transmit and receive to & from a computer in the middle of the setup. That's not in question. But my guess is that you have to have a computer to connect these new DPs to the outside world via midi.....which is kind of concerning somehow.

The answer to all of these question is no, unless maybe you buy one of the devices I mentioned in my previous post.

.....at a cost of over §145. Well done Roland! Though I can't see why you'd really have the need to do this - after all these are not gigging instruments. But you will need the palaver of a computer to connect the things up at all.