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Re: Playing pp on a Kawai CA-65 [Re: MacMacMac] #1996772
12/09/12 08:10 AM
12/09/12 08:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
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pv88 Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Put me in the don't-care-about-the-feel-of-escapement camp, with essbrace and pv88.

To me, there are two sides to escapement in an acoustic piano.
1. You need it because it disengages the hammer from the key. This critical function was lacking in pre-piano instruments, but it's been in all pianos for the last three hundred years.
2. You don't want it because it creates an annoying discontinuity in the key travel. But you have to live with it because the mechanics of an acoustic piano make it unavoidable.

In a digital piano, you need the functionality of escapement (item 1) but not the click/crunch discontinuity of escapement (item 2). Until some genius at Roland decided to put a clickety flap into their piano actions, digitals had #1 and not #2. Perfect.

My Yamaha has no clickety flap. Good.


Excellent synopsis... as no one needs resistance in the action.

Digital piano makers should forget about trying to copy it.

V-Piano & CA95 would be better off without the feature.

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Re: Playing pp on a Kawai CA-65 [Re: pv88] #1996775
12/09/12 08:16 AM
12/09/12 08:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,159
Sydney, Australia
S
sullivang Online blank
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sullivang  Online Blank
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,159
Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted by pv88

Excellent synopsis... as no one needs resistance in the action.

Digital piano makers should forget about trying to copy it.


I don't understand how you could say this. Did you read my post just above where I quoted David Standwood?

Even if it were true that everyone did not like the resistance (and it is NOT true), it would STILL make sense to duplicate it on a digital piano, IF the player is using the DP as a substitute for a real piano! It would allow the player to become accustomed to overcoming the resistance when playing softly, so that when transferring to a real piano, they would not have to adapt as much.

GReg.

Re: Playing pp on a Kawai CA-65 [Re: DrAlan] #1997014
12/09/12 06:07 PM
12/09/12 06:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6
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jam13 Offline OP
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jam13  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by DrAlan
What I eventually decided was that the CA65 would help me develop my ability to play pp precisely because it is a bit more difficult due to the let-off feature, and I bought it in preference to the CA13.

My reasoning was as that playing pp requires a slow press of the key, but that doesn't imply a light press; if you take control of the key rather than letting it control you, you can master the let-off notch and play through it to get a slow press and a pianissimo result. I decided that this would help me develop good technique (or at least be able to cope with a variety of instruments); I really hope I'm right!


That's an interesting point, and something I did consider when I was originally comparing the Yamaha Clavinovas. The action on the 430 and 440 felt much more familiar and easy to play (coming from an old acoustic) than the 470, but the 470 felt somehow more responsive even though I was not as comfortable on it.

After managing to track down a Kawai showroom though, I decided fairly quickly that I much preferred the GF action. I did consider the CA 95, but it didn't feel noticeably different to the 65 to me, and as I'm going to be using headphones most of the time, I didn't think the £600 premium was worth it. The CA 95 did sound quite a bit better through the speakers though.

Originally Posted by DrAlan
By the way I'd say you don't have a fault; my CA65 is the same. If you press to the let-off point and then play, you won't get a sound (this is the missing "off the jack" behaviour). You have to play from just above the let-off point, and mentally / physically ignore the notch; play through it firmly (i.e. in a controlled way) but slowly and you'll get pp.


Hopefully something that will come with practice then. I hope that it will not unduly affect how I perceive other acoustic pianos though smile

Re: Playing pp on a Kawai CA-65 [Re: jam13] #2225646
02/04/14 09:24 AM
02/04/14 09:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
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midenok Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
I have an opposite complaint. CA-95 can't play fff. Well, it's fortissimo level is very limited. I felt this kind of constraint on Roland RD-700NX, but its forte fortissimo is higher than of Kawai's. Roland can't differ *BAH* from *BABAH* (strongest punch ever possible). So it produces *BAH* instead of *BABAH*. Kawai can't do even *BAH* (no string hysteria, no anguish), just dumb plain *BAM*, peaceful enough, no matter how hard you thrash keyboard. So, IMHO it is most significant deficiency in Kawai action -- weak, very weak fortissimo.

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Re: Playing pp on a Kawai CA-65 [Re: jam13] #2225772
02/04/14 02:07 PM
02/04/14 02:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 353
Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
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Marcos Daniel Offline
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Marcos Daniel  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 353
Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
I would generate a midi file with notes at different velocities, particularly v=127 and listen to it, perhaps you want sound brighter and louder than your DP is able to produce.


Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
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