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My problem with Digital Pianos... #2225071 02/03/14 09:04 AM
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TheAccompanist Offline OP
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My problem with digitals pianos is that the actions are always so light!
Anyone else find this? As an accompanist I am frequently asked to create rehearsal tracks, so I purchased a digital piano a while back to start making people's rehearsal tracks digitally, and I wasn't too fussed about what I bought just as long as the sound was decent and the action was fairly good (I ended up just buying a Casio Privia PX-735), however I noticed something about all the DPs I tried- their actions are so light!
I ended up choosing the Casio because in comparison to the others in the shop it was the heaviest, and the action in the Casio isn't even that heavy to begin with.
I always read on forums people recommending the Casio to people asking for a digital piano with a heavy action, and it makes me think, if this is what is considered heavy in the DP world, how light are the light actions???

So I am curious to see if anyone can recommend a model or brand that does have a firm action! I recently saw one on Amazon and the reviews all said the same thing "The action was too heavy" even to the point where one reviewer stated it was so heavy you "could only really thump out chords"- unfortunately I can't remember the brand or model! It was a portable stage piano though, I remember that!

Perhaps I am just being really picky...



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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225077 02/03/14 09:12 AM
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You could try old Kawai models, as 9000 or 9500


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225081 02/03/14 09:15 AM
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There are some of the lesser known brands, as far as I remember, that have very heavy actions. But I wouldn't recommend them. As for the most reputable brands, Yamaha is heavyish (except for some of their stage pianos 'NW STAGE', Roland is lighter, and Kawai, I think a little heavier than Yamaha. But Kawai have at least 3 piano hammer type keyboards for different purposes & prices.

I thought Casio was between Yamaha and Roland, but it's a long time since I tried a Casio piano.

But some people on this forum - me included - have speculated that DPs are in general TOO heavy! But you as an accompanist, will have a far better idea about the normal range of keyboard types in APs than many of us.


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225082 02/03/14 09:16 AM
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The RM3 actions on the VPC1 and MP10 are nice and chunky - noticeably heavier than the Casio PX-150, for example.

Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: dire tonic] #2225090 02/03/14 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by toddy
There are some of the lesser known brands, as far as I remember, that have very heavy actions. But I wouldn't recommend them. As for the most reputable brands, Yamaha is heavyish (except for some of their stage pianos 'NW STAGE', Roland is lighter, and Kawai, I think a little heavier than Yamaha. But Kawai have at least 3 piano hammer type keyboards for different purposes & prices.

I thought Casio was between Yamaha and Roland, but it's a long time since I tried a Casio piano.

But some people on this forum - me included - have speculated that DPs are in general TOO heavy! But you as an accompanist, will have a far better idea about the normal range of keyboard types in APs than many of us.


See, I tried at least one Yamaha digital piano that sported each of their different actions and I found them still to be too light for my liking (Especially the GHS! Not only is light, but it feels some what lethargic?) I found Roland's actions, although responsive, still too light for my liking, and even a lot of the Kawai DP actions were too light for me.
I do understand what you mean though about people on this forum saying DPs are too heavy, I have frequently seen it- even though I do disagree! wink

Originally Posted by dire tonic
The RM3 actions on the VPC1 and MP10 are nice and chunky - noticeably heavier than the Casio PX-150, for example.

I am sure I tried those DPs and still didn't find them to be stand out heavy... that and I wasn't looking to spend too much on a DP wink haha!


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225110 02/03/14 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by iMou354


Originally Posted by dire tonic
The RM3 actions on the VPC1 and MP10 are nice and chunky - noticeably heavier than the Casio PX-150, for example.

I am sure I tried those DPs and still didn't find them to be stand out heavy... that and I wasn't looking to spend too much on a DP wink haha!


I doubt you tried the VPC1. It is NOT light at all. I own a Petrof concert grand, and it has an extremely heavy action (which I prefer), and the VPC is comparable to it. It would have to be hooked up to a computer for its sounds, so unless you tried something that was setup like that, you didn't try the VPC.

It will run you about $1800 plus whatever cost for the virtual piano software (I paid $100 for my software). If you're looking for something with a grand piano-like action and responsiveness, the VPC is the way to go. The MP10 I hear is similar, but lacking the tri-sensor so you may not like the responsiveness. We are hoping the MP11 will be out sometime this year which should have on-board sounds plus the nicer action (GF), but who knows when Kawai will release it? smile

Anyways, often you will get what you pay for. If you can only stay within the $1k USD range then then Casio will give you the most bang for your buck. However, if you are not happy with the action, wouldn't it be better to save that money to get what you really want?


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225155 02/03/14 11:28 AM
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I think the newest Casios (x50) feel heavier than the previous generation (x30), and while I generally prefer lighter actions, I prefer the x50 to the x30 regardless.

Heaviest I've seen is the Kawai MP10 (and I gather that the VPC1 is similar). Yamaha GH is also on the heavy side, though not as much as the Kawai (i.e. P155, P255, CP33, CP40, CP50, CP300). I think some of the best actions are also some of the lightest... i.e. Roland's $2k+ models, Yamaha's similarly high priced NW actions.

Some of this is a matter of what acoustic pianos you're used to. In my experience, Yamaha, Steinway, Bluthner grands tend to have light actions; Baldwin and Kawai heavy. Most DPs I've played feel heavier than most acoustics I've played.

Last edited by anotherscott; 02/03/14 02:51 PM.
Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225183 02/03/14 12:04 PM
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Have you tried to "tune" the actions. Even on my lowly P105 I can feel the difference between the three settings for weight.


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225295 02/03/14 05:06 PM
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I was happy with the Yamaha CP300; the CP33 uses the same action.


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: D7K] #2225409 02/03/14 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by iMou354


Originally Posted by dire tonic
The RM3 actions on the VPC1 and MP10 are nice and chunky - noticeably heavier than the Casio PX-150, for example.

I am sure I tried those DPs and still didn't find them to be stand out heavy... that and I wasn't looking to spend too much on a DP wink haha!


I doubt you tried the VPC1. It is NOT light at all. I own a Petrof concert grand, and it has an extremely heavy action (which I prefer), and the VPC is comparable to it. It would have to be hooked up to a computer for its sounds, so unless you tried something that was setup like that, you didn't try the VPC.

It will run you about $1800 plus whatever cost for the virtual piano software (I paid $100 for my software). If you're looking for something with a grand piano-like action and responsiveness, the VPC is the way to go. The MP10 I hear is similar, but lacking the tri-sensor so you may not like the responsiveness. We are hoping the MP11 will be out sometime this year which should have on-board sounds plus the nicer action (GF), but who knows when Kawai will release it? smile

Anyways, often you will get what you pay for. If you can only stay within the $1k USD range then then Casio will give you the most bang for your buck. However, if you are not happy with the action, wouldn't it be better to save that money to get what you really want?

Yes, my mistake! I must not of tried that model! And besides, I just googled the Australian price for it... it's not even available here in Australia! frown However, some of the other DPs I tried from Kawai didn't seem to be that heavy... But don't think my comment on the other Kawai DPs is saying you are exaggerating about the weight of the VPC1, I am just saying that I found their other DPs that I tried to be not that heavy.
I am happy with the Casio- it's not my primary instrument (I have two beautiful acoustic pianos- One grand, one upright) I bought it simply to make rehearsal/backing tracks for clients. All I am saying, is in my experience, most DPs have lighter actions. One thing I did notice the Casio had over the other DP actions was, although it's not a heavy action, you still had to work a bit more, it had a bit more "fight" in it so to speak, and I think thats what creates the feeling of it having a heavier action than the other DPs (at least in it's price range). I find some DP actions to almost feel like they are just falling from underneath your fingers.



Originally Posted by anotherscott
I think the newest Casios (x50) feel heavier than the previous generation (x30), and while I generally prefer lighter actions, I prefer the x50 to the x30 regardless.

Heaviest I've seen is the Kawai MP10 (and I gather that the VPC1 is similar). Yamaha GH is also on the heavy side, though not as much as the Kawai (i.e. P155, P255, CP33, CP40, CP50, CP300). I think some of the best actions are also some of the lightest... i.e. Roland's $2k+ models, Yamaha's similarly high priced NW actions.

Some of this is a matter of what acoustic pianos you're used to. In my experience, Yamaha, Steinway, Bluthner grands tend to have light actions; Baldwin and Kawai heavy. Most DPs I've played feel heavier than most acoustics I've played.


I haven't actually tried the new Casio DPs, but I would love to! And I actually found all the Yamaha DP actions to still be too light for my liking. I do like Roland's actions very much! However, still too light for my liking.
I find it interesting that you put Steinway in a lighter action category, as many of the Steinway grands I have played tend to be on the heavier side (especially a Model D I accompanied a competition on a few years back... it was a beast!) They were all Hamburg steinways, so perhaps they have a heavier action than then NY ones?
I do like Kawai's firmer action on their APs! However some I have played feel as if the key dip is more shallow than your average piano? I especially noticed this on the Shigeru models!

Originally Posted by D7K
Have you tried to "tune" the actions. Even on my lowly P105 I can feel the difference between the three settings for weight.

Yes, although this doesn't actually change the weight of the keyboard, it only changes the sensitivity of how it responds to your playing.


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225473 02/03/14 10:37 PM
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I think the weight of the key action on my Kawai CA65 is pretty wonderful. just right. goldilocks. maybe maybe a hair light. nahhhhhh. it's perfect.
I can play stuff on it, I could only dream about playing on pianos with heavier action.

Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225485 02/03/14 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by iMou354
I actually found all the Yamaha DP actions to still be too light for my liking. I do like Roland's actions very much! However, still too light for my liking.

Which Rolands did you try? They basically have two different piano actions at the moment.

Did you try any of the higher end Yamahas? Like CP4, or the older (and somewhat different) CP1/CP5? On one hand, they are lighter feeling than the GH models I mentioned which it sounds like you don't like; but they are closer feeling to the higher end Rolands (which are also lighter than Yamaha's GH).

Originally Posted by iMou354
I find it interesting that you put Steinway in a lighter action category, as many of the Steinway grands I have played tend to be on the heavier side (especially a Model D I accompanied a competition on a few years back... it was a beast!) They were all Hamburg steinways, so perhaps they have a heavier action than then NY ones?

I probably should qualify that, because there is indeed a lot of variation among Steinways. I remember at school there were maybe a dozen or so practice rooms with Steinway uprights, which included some of the very best and some of the very worst pianos I remember playing. ;-) The Steinway I'm familiar with lately belongs to one of my piano students, and I would categorize it as somewhat on the light side.

One of the benefits Yamaha brought to the piano industry was more predictability. Every C7 feels pretty much like every other C7. With Steinway, people would go and pick out the one they wanted.

Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: D7K] #2225557 02/04/14 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by D7K
Have you tried to "tune" the actions. Even on my lowly P105 I can feel the difference between the three settings for weight.


Beyond that, you can just turn down the headphone volume and force yourself to play heavy. Or vice versa....


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: minstrelman] #2225558 02/04/14 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by minstrelman
I think the weight of the key action on my Kawai CA65 is pretty wonderful. just right. goldilocks. maybe maybe a hair light. nahhhhhh. it's perfect.
I can play stuff on it, I could only dream about playing on pianos with heavier action.

Lol! A nice summing up of the anxiety that afflicts so many of us!

Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225650 02/04/14 08:38 AM
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I think the Kawai MP6 strikes a happy medium. I know I have thoroughly enjoyed playing mine, and don't have a problem taking that action to an upright or a grand piano. By the way, you can pick up an MP6 for about $1,200- a lot of dp for your money! Compares favorably, if not better, with many dp's costing far more. In the end, it's your preference. I always test drive before buying!

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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: HisKidd] #2225962 02/04/14 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by iMou354
I actually found all the Yamaha DP actions to still be too light for my liking. I do like Roland's actions very much! However, still too light for my liking.

Which Rolands did you try? They basically have two different piano actions at the moment.

Did you try any of the higher end Yamahas? Like CP4, or the older (and somewhat different) CP1/CP5? On one hand, they are lighter feeling than the GH models I mentioned which it sounds like you don't like; but they are closer feeling to the higher end Rolands (which are also lighter than Yamaha's GH).


The Roland DPs I tried were the LX-15, HP-503, RG-3, V-Piano Grand and I think thats about it... I also tried some lower end ones. (I wasn't of course going to buy the more expensive Roland DPs though, like I've stated, my digital piano is only a secondary piano to use to make rehearsal tracks or if I get a phone call at 11:30 at night from someone asking me to accompany them at a competition the next morning at 9:30AM and I need to just quickly run over their music... hahaha yes, this has happened! Luckily I was the accompanist for this competition, and not just some other accompanist who they would of expected to just come, play, and go!)

No I haven't tried the Yamaha CP4, CP1, or CP5, but if they are lighter than the GH action which I still think is quite light, then I wouldn't bother :P

Originally Posted by anotherscott

Originally Posted by iMou354
I find it interesting that you put Steinway in a lighter action category, as many of the Steinway grands I have played tend to be on the heavier side (especially a Model D I accompanied a competition on a few years back... it was a beast!) They were all Hamburg steinways, so perhaps they have a heavier action than then NY ones?

I probably should qualify that, because there is indeed a lot of variation among Steinways. I remember at school there were maybe a dozen or so practice rooms with Steinway uprights, which included some of the very best and some of the very worst pianos I remember playing. ;-) The Steinway I'm familiar with lately belongs to one of my piano students, and I would categorize it as somewhat on the light side.

One of the benefits Yamaha brought to the piano industry was more predictability. Every C7 feels pretty much like every other C7. With Steinway, people would go and pick out the one they wanted.


Yes, I know Steinway pianos can vary just about as much as people do! smile I played an interesting one recently, the action is deceitfully light, but when I started to play more intense pieces with very quick and loud 'fingery' passages, thats when you could feel the weight! :P Was quite interesting actually.
And you're right about Yamaha Pianos, they don't vary much from piano to piano at all!

Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by D7K
Have you tried to "tune" the actions. Even on my lowly P105 I can feel the difference between the three settings for weight.


Beyond that, you can just turn down the headphone volume and force yourself to play heavy. Or vice versa....

Sarcasm? Haha! I don't think this would actually work... See, to me the Casio's action feels almost like feathers, so pounding it hard isn't going to change anything! Like I said before, adjusting the touch response on a DP does simply that- it changes the touch response! Not the weight of the key. smile Besides, I can't be handing clients rehearsal tracks with loud and thumpy playing! :P

Originally Posted by HisKidd
I think the Kawai MP6 strikes a happy medium. I know I have thoroughly enjoyed playing mine, and don't have a problem taking that action to an upright or a grand piano. By the way, you can pick up an MP6 for about $1,200- a lot of dp for your money! Compares favorably, if not better, with many dp's costing far more. In the end, it's your preference. I always test drive before buying!

Play On!

I read this and thought "Oh, I will have to go try one!" then I looked up the price here in Australia... RRP is $2,695! I did find it on a website though for $2,099!


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225967 02/04/14 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by iMou354

I read this and thought "Oh, I will have to go try one!" then I looked up the price here in Australia... RRP is $2,695! I did find it on a website though for $2,099!


Australian prices are shocking. We are paying close to double on the majority of DPs compared to US prices. It's the sole reason I haven't upgraded my DP in a long time.

Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: ando] #2225977 02/04/14 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by iMou354

I read this and thought "Oh, I will have to go try one!" then I looked up the price here in Australia... RRP is $2,695! I did find it on a website though for $2,099!


Australian prices are shocking. We are paying close to double on the majority of DPs compared to US prices. It's the sole reason I haven't upgraded my DP in a long time.

My question- Why? It's not like our dollar is that much different. Heck! Last year I bought something off eBay US that was $50 (USD) and I paid something like $47 (AUD)!


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225979 02/04/14 07:33 PM
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Well currently their dollar is worth more than the Australian dollar I believe.


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Re: My problem with Digital Pianos... [Re: TheAccompanist] #2225981 02/04/14 07:37 PM
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and if transport were anything to do with it, they'd be cheaper in Australia since most DPs are made in Indonesia these days, or Japan, China or Taiwan. Hop skip and a jump from you, but the other side of the world from us in Europe where they are more like USA prices (usually a bit more, sometimes the same). Not fair!


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