Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
102 registered members (AlanB, anotherscott, accordeur, ando, AndyP, 36251, 17 invisible), 1,738 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#2225047 - 02/03/14 09:30 AM Some snowy morning fun!  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Philadelphia/South Jersey
So I am at my office this morning and frankly, it is snowing right now and will continue through the day. I will not have lots of "in store" traffic.

This gives me a little time to share an unusual piano with my friends here and also have a little fun. The questions are:

1 What is it?

2 When was it built?

3 Can you tell me anything about the design?

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


For those who aren't familiar with some of the more unusual designs, let me assure you there is no photoshop going on. The piano is as it appears.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2225052 - 02/03/14 09:38 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,380
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Eric Gloo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,380
Richfield Springs, New York
I have a guess on #1.

1. It's a piano.


Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York
#2225058 - 02/03/14 09:42 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
WurliFan Offline
Full Member
WurliFan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
Western PA
1. Mathushek Concert Grand.
2. Late 1800s or Early Early 1900s
3. Honestly, I don't know much about the designs.....eh....*Guesses*
It seems to evoke more of a Classical-ish styling. Is there a proper name for it?


1952 Wurlitzer 2150 Spinet...'The boogie-nator' laugh
Man, can it R-O-C-K! smile
#2225067 - 02/03/14 09:57 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
It seems to be built with a bass-side opening lid(s). Custom designed for a specific environment?

This piano has many contradictions. The fallboard logo would indicate the 1870-80's, but I not sure they built grands at that time. It was the era of their square pianos.

If it was actually built by one of the Mathushek affiliated companies, I would guess it would be from the 1910-1920's. Custom built as a one-off.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2225070 - 02/03/14 10:01 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty


This piano has many contradictions.


It does... or does it? wink


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#2225078 - 02/03/14 10:12 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
It was built to perform the Beethoven Contredanses.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2225085 - 02/03/14 10:21 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 467
Tweedpipe Offline
Full Member
Tweedpipe  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 467
Rich, always ready for a bit of fun.......
1. A large object below a window with snow outside.
2. Way before I was born!
3. A 3-legged finger exerciser.
wink

Last edited by Tweedpipe; 02/03/14 10:22 AM.

Currently working on:-
C Major scale (r/h only - starting with the pinkie finger)......

Dear Noah,
We could have sworn you said the ark wasn't leaving till 5.
Yours sincerely,
The Unicorns



------------------------------

#2225093 - 02/03/14 10:35 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,854
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Rank Piano Amateur  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,854
It sounds from the brief bios I have found on line as though Mr. Mathushek let a fairly frustrated existence--a prolific inventor who died in poverty. He probably built a lot of one-off pianos to experiment with his various ideas, alas a sure road to bankruptcy. I agree with Minnesota Marty about the fallboard--as far as I could find out, he added "& Son" to his name in 1905 and also moved from New Haven, so if the fallboard is accurate it has to predate 1905.

Rich, I assume that you have additional information--I would love to know more! Whatever it is, it is gorgeous and fascinating.

As you can tell, I'm snowed in too!

Last edited by Rank Piano Amateur; 02/03/14 10:36 AM.
#2225097 - 02/03/14 10:42 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 14
rjc Offline
Junior Member
rjc  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 14
New Jersey
Hi Rich,

How does it sound?



Robert


rjc
#2225098 - 02/03/14 10:43 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 14
rjc Offline
Junior Member
rjc  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 14
New Jersey
Hi Rich,

How does it sound?



Robert


rjc
#2225121 - 02/03/14 11:16 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
It must have an echo!

an echo

echo


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2225147 - 02/03/14 12:14 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,380
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Eric Gloo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,380
Richfield Springs, New York
The case is the reverse of the standard grand. The curve is on the bass side. Does this actually allow for longer bass strings?


Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York
#2225151 - 02/03/14 12:20 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Eric Gloo]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by Eric Gloo
The case is the reverse of the standard grand. The curve is on the bass side. Does this actually allow for longer bass strings?


Absolutely Eric. It is definitely a reverse case design. Tell me what you are thinking about string length and add your thoughts on what this design might do to the bridge placement as well.

So far, so fun people. smile


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#2225154 - 02/03/14 12:26 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,048
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,048
Oakland
It looks to be about 1880 rosewood grand built in a reverse configuration, with some oddity with the lid, which looks to have some extra parts. I suspect it is in someone's display of instruments, judging by the keys, pin blocks, and lid mounted behind it, so it is either in a store or a museum.


Semipro Tech
#2225171 - 02/03/14 12:46 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,042
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,042
Conway, AR USA
Seems like the maker did something unique with the agraffes.


Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2225172 - 02/03/14 12:48 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,380
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Eric Gloo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,380
Richfield Springs, New York
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Absolutely Eric. It is definitely a reverse case design. Tell me what you are thinking about string length and add your thoughts on what this design might do to the bridge placement as well.


As far as string length, the reverse case design allows for the bass strings to run much more diagonally than in a normal case design. Is the bass bridge running somewhat parallel to the treble side of the case? Or, is there more than one bass bridge? Or, does the bass bridge look like an upside down and backwards "L", with part of it running parallel to the rear end of the case, and the rest running down the straight side?

Are there wound strings in the tenor section, with a separate bridge?

Does the lid offer 4 possible ways to be used? Closed (as shown). Front section up/rear section down. Front section down/rear section up. Both sections up.


Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York
#2225174 - 02/03/14 12:50 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,380
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Eric Gloo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,380
Richfield Springs, New York
Or...OR...is it straight strung, with no separate bass bridge?

Last edited by Eric Gloo; 02/03/14 12:51 PM. Reason: Because inquiring minds want to know!

Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York
#2225177 - 02/03/14 12:55 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Judging by the floor, doors, and wind screen, I would guess it resides in all of it's backwards glory in Germantown.

I'm very confused by the double opening lid. I've never seen anything like it before. It seems to have both a 'trunk' and a 'hood.'


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2225179 - 02/03/14 12:58 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
One big question is if it is overstrung.

Rich, how about a photo with the lids open?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2225180 - 02/03/14 12:59 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: bkw58]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,042
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,042
Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted by bkw58
Seems like the maker did something unique with the agraffes.


No contact with the plate. But not sure which model.


Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2225192 - 02/03/14 01:15 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: bkw58]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,042
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,042
Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted by bkw58
Originally Posted by bkw58
Seems like the maker did something unique with the agraffes.


No contact with the plate. But not sure which model.


A forerunner to bridge agraffes but placement was different - suspend atop and bearing upon the strings, I think. Again, not sure about the model.


Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2225237 - 02/03/14 03:16 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Nice comments so far!

As far as the aggraffes are concerned they are totally normal and similar to modern aggraffes today.

I have included two more photos:

[Linked Image]

There are two half lids. The back and front half both open up towards the player. It does not open at the side at all.


[Linked Image]

Notice the bass bridge placement and the grain configuration of the soundboard.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#2225245 - 02/03/14 03:27 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,048
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,048
Oakland
Probably made for a half-deaf left-handed pianist!

Seems to be missing a bass string.


Semipro Tech
#2225251 - 02/03/14 03:38 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: BDB]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by BDB
Probably made for a half-deaf left-handed pianist!

Seems to be missing a bass string.


Nope. All strings are there, BDB. But the treble crosses under the bass at a weird angle. I think I see what you were seeing. It is an optical illusion.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#2225264 - 02/03/14 04:13 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Well, that top-lift was a surprise!

Are there two soundboards, or is that an optical illusion?

The bass board (right) seems to be higher than the treble board (left)?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2225267 - 02/03/14 04:21 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,243
Steve Chandler Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Steve Chandler  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,243
Urbandale, Iowa
From what I can see the bridge is near the center of the soundboard. Presumably this maximizes energy transference to the board. The tenor bridge is in practically in the center of the sound board with presumably the same effect. One would surmise that the bridge placement is deliberate and has a positive impact on the sound. The configuration would allow the longest bass strings while placing the bridge in the center of the sound board. What I want to know is has this beast been rebuilt (yet)? and If so, how does it sound?

#2225318 - 02/03/14 06:52 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Supply  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
This is very reminiscent of various "Glockenflügel" (literally "Bell Grand") = grands with symmetrical body shapes. These were made by a number of German makers around 1890-1910: Ibach, Knake, Förster, Steingraeber etc.
There has been at least one thread in the past about these beasts.
see http://www.ibach.de/Ibach_Museum/glocker.jpg
http://www.klavierhalle.de/database/dt111773637/eb_111773637_1600_05.jpg

#2225374 - 02/03/14 08:44 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,350
phantomFive Offline
3000 Post Club Member
phantomFive  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,350
California
How long is that piano? I am not good at judging distances in pictures, but it does look somewhat longer than most grands to me.


Poetry is rhythm
#2225380 - 02/03/14 08:53 PM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Steve Chandler]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,048
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,048
Oakland
Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
From what I can see the bridge is near the center of the soundboard. Presumably this maximizes energy transference to the board. The tenor bridge is in practically in the center of the sound board with presumably the same effect. One would surmise that the bridge placement is deliberate and has a positive impact on the sound. The configuration would allow the longest bass strings while placing the bridge in the center of the sound board. What I want to know is has this beast been rebuilt (yet)? and If so, how does it sound?


Clearly it has been rebuilt.


Semipro Tech
#2225595 - 02/04/14 06:27 AM Re: Some snowy morning fun! [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,577
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Yes, this piano has been rebuilt. This instrument belongs to St. Charles Seminary here in the Philadelphia area. We feel it was originally built in 1884. That is a guess as the Pierce Atlas only gives us 1880 - 1885, but I believe we found markings from 1884 inside the piano.

It is so unusually different in scale and from the 21st century eye, certainly not a failure, but maybe different enough to miss the market demand of the time.

I was happy to have a little time to share this instrument here and you saw a good bit about what makes this piano cool. Here is something you cannot see. The piano has no pin block.

That's right - no pin block. Instead the iron frame has a little compartment under every tuning pin and a small block of laminated maple is fit into that compartment, so I guess you could say that the piano has over 200 little pin blocks. How amazingly and needlessly complicated.

In speculating why they would go through such trouble, the only thing we could come up with is the possibility of dealing with a loose pin, permanently and individually, as they happened. I personally think that Mathushek, clearly a skilled engineer, was trying to differentiate his product and stand out from the crowd.

I welcome any other comments or questions and thank you for all of the contributions so far.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Why do YouTube commenters hate Lang Lang so much?
by sara elizabeth. 06/23/17 07:33 AM
KAWAI MP7: my piano presets
by Nor. 06/23/17 04:09 AM
The truth about the blues scales.
by Nahum. 06/23/17 02:44 AM
Yet Another ETD thread
by DoelKees. 06/23/17 01:31 AM
Piano Technician Academy & Their Tools
by Gimpt. 06/23/17 01:23 AM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,404
Posts2,638,368
Members88,167
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0