Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
91 registered members (Andrei Kuznetsov, ando, BachToTheFuture, AdvancedPianoCover, 25 invisible), 1,850 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2223509 - 01/31/14 08:54 AM The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
WurliFan Offline
Full Member
WurliFan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
Western PA
Okie dokie. I've decided to save up the $ Until my birthday, which is approaching soon. March. I will then have around 350 dollars to service my Spinet. This'll do something, no doubt about it.
Nowie, since the other Piano is getting left in the dust, I was wondering if someone could tell me how to adjust the lost motion on it. Oh, yes, you're probably already thinking, 'Oh, god, this kid is at it again', but fear not! I am quite sure I can do this lost motion adjustment. There are no capstans on this piano. At the end of the keys, there are two screws. This is the shamed Weaver Metal Bracket action. Now, for those who have attempted to adjust the lost motion on these types of actions, (And you're probably wondering why I would waste my time on such a horrible thing), would I screw them in tightly, or does there need to be an equal balance between the screws for optimum motion response? It seems very simple. It's just two screws per each note. I just need to know how to do it.
I will attach a video I found showing this Piano's action, if needed.


I'm sorry for all these questions, but this Is pretty much the last I have concerning piano Action. I know some of you have probably already gotten tired of my endless Spinet Enthusiasm...heh..... whome


1952 Wurlitzer 2150 Spinet...'The boogie-nator' laugh
Man, can it R-O-C-K! smile
(ad 800)
PTG Journal
PTG Journal
#2223538 - 01/31/14 09:55 AM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,557
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,557
Sandy Eggo, California
What you're looking for in the proper amount of lost motion is between the back check and the hammer butt; what is desired is only enough lost motion so there is a very slight movement in the back check before you see the hammer butt move when the key is played. The adjustment is made where the key interfaces with the drop action sticker; either a capstan screw on the key, or a sticker nut if the sticker is directly connected to the back of the key.

It's your piano, and you care about it. That's all that matters. smile



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#2223639 - 01/31/14 12:53 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: OperaTenor]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
WurliFan Offline
Full Member
WurliFan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
Western PA
Operatenor, thank you for that. I noticed that the screws and or capstans directly affect the whippen blow distance between the whippen itself and the hammer 'butt.'
BUT, I tried this on the last few keys, screwing in the screws as tight as they go, and it didn't help, I think it made it worse. This was before I knew how this stuff worked, though. Perhaps now I can fix it.
This isn't my Piano; this piano is my Grandmother's. However, half the time I feel like it IS mine, since she never takes care of it.

I tried this myself on my piano, got some very good help. It worked. I just wanted to clarify for this piano, if it had anything else different to it. It's certainly easier than the capstans on mine; the screws just go in the back of the key.

Also, I noticed something for Spinet actions; you have to 'float' them. You can't play too hard or else the notes will 'block up.'


1952 Wurlitzer 2150 Spinet...'The boogie-nator' laugh
Man, can it R-O-C-K! smile
#2223731 - 01/31/14 04:32 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Jon Page Offline
Full Member
Jon Page  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Massac...
Before you adjust for lost motion make certain the hammer blow is correct. Also, due to the compression of the damper felt and their early lift, be aware that taking up the lost motion may lift the dampers off the strings.


Regards,

Jon Page
Piano technician/tuner
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
http://www.pianocapecod.com
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2223789 - 01/31/14 06:22 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Craig Hair Offline
Full Member
Craig Hair  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Chesterfield. MA
In adjusting rocker capstans, in order to not damage the key, you must first make room in the direction you wish to move. Then the slack is taken up by the other screw and the adjustment is made. First loosen a screw, then tighen the other. The system is never over tightened, just firm enough so that nothing rattles. I'm surprised to hear about them in a 52 Wurlitzer, as they went out of fashion with the open face pinblock.
Still, it is a solid system, and maybe a little more convenient in a spinet than those micro capstans. Do you have the Wurlitzer service manual? I looked through mine and couln't find your configuration.

Last edited by Craig Hair; 01/31/14 06:24 PM. Reason: typo

Craig Hair
Hampshire Piano
Chesterfield, MA
Conservative Piano Restoration

Sometimes, all you can hear is the cat snore.
#2223814 - 01/31/14 07:11 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: Craig Hair]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
WurliFan Offline
Full Member
WurliFan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
Western PA
This is what my 1952 Wurlitzer Action looks like:
http://www.corner1.com/spinetaction.jpg

It's a wee bit more precise than the 'standard' spinet action. I've adjusted the little capstan (10) on mine. Worked well.


This is the action I am talking about, not a Wurli, but a Weaver.
(And no, that's not me, but you can clearly see the action in this dude's video.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKx5dUTxxpU <<<<This action. Right here. See the ends of the keys? I know how to work the capstans, but these are screws. And yes, that is a Spinet. My grandma has the exact same Piano. It's only 37 inches tall. It's funny though because the hammers are way above the keys.


1952 Wurlitzer 2150 Spinet...'The boogie-nator' laugh
Man, can it R-O-C-K! smile
#2223831 - 01/31/14 07:39 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Jon Page Offline
Full Member
Jon Page  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Massac...
I couldn't tell be the video and I doubt that anyone would go to the trouble and expense of a rocker arm on a spinet. I could be a metal plate or yoke which has a screw holding onto the keystick. The screw at the end leading to the sticker is just a long screw going into there wooden sticker. Turning the screw clock-wise lifts the wippen and takes up lost motion. SO the two screws are probably a yoke mounting screw and sticker adjustment screw.


Regards,

Jon Page
Piano technician/tuner
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
http://www.pianocapecod.com
#2223855 - 01/31/14 08:11 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Craig Hair Offline
Full Member
Craig Hair  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Chesterfield. MA
I'm not sure what the confusion is. They sure look like rocker capstans in the video, though it is blurry.


Craig Hair
Hampshire Piano
Chesterfield, MA
Conservative Piano Restoration

Sometimes, all you can hear is the cat snore.
#2223861 - 01/31/14 08:18 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,535
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,535
Oakland
I remember seeing Weaver rocker arms in a catalog a long time ago, but I have not seen them in person. What you need to do is to move the wippen up or down when the keys are at rest, so that if you tug back on the hammer rail, the hammers barely move. If you are mechanically inclined, you can see what you need to adjust to do this.


Semipro Tech
#2223916 - 01/31/14 11:22 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
WurliFan Offline
Full Member
WurliFan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
Western PA
I think I can do this now on this piano.
Once again, thanks to all of you amazing people who have the patience to answer some kid's questions.
Some faith in humanity hath been restored.......


1952 Wurlitzer 2150 Spinet...'The boogie-nator' laugh
Man, can it R-O-C-K! smile
#2223921 - 01/31/14 11:34 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,535
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,535
Oakland
Originally Posted by WurliFan

Some faith in humanity hath been restored.......

You are assuming we are all human? smile


Semipro Tech
#2223937 - 02/01/14 12:17 AM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: BDB]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
WurliFan Offline
Full Member
WurliFan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
Western PA
BDB, I think you are. As far as I know, I am, too.


I'm not sure about the others, though....... eek

What if this Piano forum is actually an alien conspiracy bent on taking over the earth?
shocked


Last edited by WurliFan; 02/01/14 12:17 AM. Reason: Grammar Fail. For the LULZ!

1952 Wurlitzer 2150 Spinet...'The boogie-nator' laugh
Man, can it R-O-C-K! smile
#2224038 - 02/01/14 07:55 AM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
I have always feared an attack by the Whippens.

They are from the planet Agraffe and their motto is Doom to Digital.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2224039 - 02/01/14 07:56 AM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Oh dear, they caused me to repeat and double strike.

Last edited by Minnesota Marty; 02/01/14 07:58 AM. Reason: I double posted against my will!

Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2224045 - 02/01/14 08:19 AM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Craig Hair Offline
Full Member
Craig Hair  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Chesterfield. MA
I found this image of a Weaver Rocker Arm in an old Tuner's Supply catalog from 1969.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/xvJEZPraEE2BCVu9GNMp8G_LSC6EB1wAEGdJi8zzAF8=w258-h207-p-no


Craig Hair
Hampshire Piano
Chesterfield, MA
Conservative Piano Restoration

Sometimes, all you can hear is the cat snore.
#2224118 - 02/01/14 10:42 AM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Jon Page Offline
Full Member
Jon Page  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Massac...
Then on a rocker arm, to take up lost motion you need to loosen (back out) the rear screw at the end of the key and tighten (screw in) the front screw (the one closer to the balance rail). You have to keep going back and forth until the end of the rocker is the proper height (lost motion) and both screws are firmly secure to the rocker. Capstans are a much faster adjustment.


Regards,

Jon Page
Piano technician/tuner
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
http://www.pianocapecod.com
#2224134 - 02/01/14 11:31 AM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Mark Cerisano Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Mark Cerisano  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I will add that a fast technique in adjusting lost motion can be helpful. Especially if the soft pedal dowel is resting on the edge of the little cup that is attached under the hammer rest rail, thereby creating excessive lost motion, which you have no idea how that happened, and then you spend 30 minutes adjusting all the lost motion, only to notice as you take a break to examine your handy work, that the soft dowel is stuck. Then you replace the dowel and, poof, all the hammers are sitting up off the hammer rest rail. DOH!

Anyway, if the felt between the action brackets and the hammer rest rail is not too hard, you can use this technique to quickly assess and adjust lost motion.

1) Grab the hammer rest rail and pull back on it gently. If any hammers have insufficient lost motion, they will not move. Turn them down a bit.

2) When all the hammers move with the rail on a gentle pull, and there is sufficient flexibility in the action bracket felt, pull a little harder. They should all eventually stop moving. Any hammers that keep moving with the rail, have too much lost motion. Turn them up a bit until they all stop moving on a hard pull.

You will get an idea of how hard you can pull. Sometimes, it is not possible to pull enough, due to there stiffness of the action bracket felt.

Note: on some actions, this technique does not work because there are indents in the hammer butt. I.e. there is lost motion, but because of the indent, the jack still does not return. The only way to check this is to do the jack trip test.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by Mark Cerisano, RPT; 02/01/14 11:33 AM.

Mark Cerisano, RPT, B.Sc.(Mech.Eng), Dip.Ed.(Music)
www.howtotunepianos.com
#2224653 - 02/02/14 01:50 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,155
David Boyce Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David Boyce  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,155
Scotland
Quote
Some faith in humanity hath been restored.......


Had bitter experience led you to lose faith in humanity, WurlFan? Sorry to hear it if so!

Always feel free to ask questions here!

#2224747 - 02/02/14 05:03 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
WurliFan Offline
Full Member
WurliFan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
Western PA
Naw; Although I've seen some very petty arguments about the stupidest things on this forum, and those who think they are right about everything and Instantly try to argue their point....... smile I haven't really had a bad experience. There are a lot more ignoramuses in the world today.

On a side note. The Weaver repeats faster than my Wurli. I tested it out today. The note barely started to block up. (About 10 reps a second, I would say. My Wurli can only do about 8. I'll go off this note when I perform the Adjustments, Because it feels and repeats the best.)
It uses more of a Direct Blow action. I seriously need to get some pictures, because the Hammers sit wayyyy above the keys.
Oh, shoot, that's right, I'm grounded from my Ipod.
THE JOYS OF BEING A TEEN. grin
And why did I get grounded from my Ipod?
Because I moved my piano out from the wall two feet to hear it better. Whew!
(And yes when I move it I lift up on the legs so it doesn't hurt the Piano. Doesn't make it go out of tune, either.)
You can sort of understand the amount of BS I have to deal with over this piano...heh.....


1952 Wurlitzer 2150 Spinet...'The boogie-nator' laugh
Man, can it R-O-C-K! smile
#2224751 - 02/02/14 05:08 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
WurliFan Offline
Full Member
WurliFan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 217
Western PA
Marty, did they forget to add another pad to your room?
I think the problem was they only gave you one layer to begin with........ laugh
THE ATTACK OF THE WHIPPENS; Now in Technicolor and Sterephonic Sound!
I can imagine it now....we could make millions.

Also, thank you to everyone else on this topic who has commented. For the sake of posting too much, I won't thank everyone individually; but keep in mind that I take all of your suggestions and advice, and I appreciate it. smile


1952 Wurlitzer 2150 Spinet...'The boogie-nator' laugh
Man, can it R-O-C-K! smile
#2224756 - 02/02/14 05:16 PM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,155
David Boyce Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David Boyce  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,155
Scotland
Quote
And why did I get grounded from my Ipod?
Because I moved my piano out from the wall two feet to hear it better. Whew!


You've suffered for your art! 'Twas ever thus....

#2225011 - 02/03/14 06:01 AM Re: The Last Question I, The Noob, Have, Regarding Piano Action [Re: WurliFan]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Craig Hair Offline
Full Member
Craig Hair  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Chesterfield. MA
This may cause some real uproar, but an old dealer's trick for making a spinet sound bigger is to put it across a corner. Uprights should be a few inches away from the wall at any rate.


Craig Hair
Hampshire Piano
Chesterfield, MA
Conservative Piano Restoration

Sometimes, all you can hear is the cat snore.

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Scarlatti Sonata B minor k 27 pedal
by Potlea. 11/18/17 05:46 AM
Mostly Medtner concert in Berlin, 28/11/2017
by Ken Iisaka. 11/18/17 01:45 AM
Looking for "rock"piano songs with a specific rhythm
by Wormwith.co. 11/17/17 10:04 PM
I finally inventoried my music!
by gooddog. 11/17/17 09:38 PM
Steinway Teflon Years?
by Duke of Dunning. 11/17/17 09:23 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,821
Posts2,672,692
Members89,157
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0