Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Mason Hamlin Action/Touch Not as Advertised

Since no one has answered this question yet...
The Stanwood method is typically applied to what is there. It can be done in conjunction with new parts, if desired. But often, it is applied to the current action. I am certified as a Stanwood tech, and would recommend going with the Stanwood system. I think it is still the most comprehensive method available to technicians, and have seen many success stories using this method. But still, the actual work is up to the technician. The Stanwood system is a tool we use, but it is up to us to implement the design well. The are choices to be made, a big one being hammer weight. It is up to us, as technicians, to tell David what we want.

How the process works is your technician takes the current action. It should be well regulated to start. Measurements are made. We send the data to David, along with a description of current comments and what the customer desires in action. He then analyzes the data and sends back the specifications. It is a blueprint. Along with the specifications, we get graphs which show how much fiction there is, where the weight problems are, etc. It is then up to the technician to make the action parts the correct weights, and to adjust the action ratio to fit his specifications.

Mr. Stanwood hasn't failed me yet. His designs have been just what the doctor ordered.

LeahG, I'm not a tech, but thought I'd ask a question or two because I’m rather confused by the history of your piano.

You say that you the dealer is in another state and never prepped the instrument? Did you buy a new “piano in a box”? One that you never played, that was never on the dealer’s display floor? Did the dealer send a tech to prep the piano for you after delivery or were you expecting it to play perfectly “out of the box”? Beyond that, it sounds like you have had the piano since 2007 and never been happy with its playability — but you’ve only ever had two techs, one of them very inexperienced, do a couple of “partial regulations”?

My immediate thought is that the piano needs to be fully prepped and regulated. Proper prepping is absolutely necessary to ensure playability: Pianos are not at all like cars that are drive-off-the-lot ready on arrival from the factory. (A full piano prep includes dozens of small but critical adjustments to even out the action; I’m quite sure the techs here would be happy to explain the details to you if desired.) And it sounds like the action needs a full regulation, not some partial fix that won't really fix the underlying problem. Proper prep and regulation are baseline care, along with regular tunings, to get and keep any piano performing as intended. As Greg stated ...

Hi Deb.

The piano was on the floor, and i bought it to an extent on name brand and reputation along with an aggessive sales person. When it arrived, I was allotted a tuning and basic regulation (like sitting the strings). I have been resistant to plunking down several thousand more to get what i (stupidly) thought would be a tier one piano in great condition.

I spoke to the Stanwood qualified Tech in my area and he wants $5000-$6000 to do the work, which is simply too much to sink into this piano. I will be contacting the best rated tech in the area and ask for either a full regulation and voicing or put the piano on the market and try to sell it.

LeahG,
What do you think a new or like new M&H BB that played and sounded like perfection and was in perfect condition would sell for?

You stated you purchased your piano in 2007 for$30K plus. Investing $5 to $10K more to have the action and tone regulation done to the highest standards-if done in the proper way-will produce a piano with wonderful control of wonderful tone that will wear better than any factory new piano made today.

The issues that would condemn your a BB piano of your vintage to mediocrity would be hardened capo bar, hard bridge pins, and/or poorly done bridges.

I do recommend that you audition examples of work from technicians who are skilled at tone-regulation and action rebuilding. Then have the ones you trust prepare a proposal for fixing your piano. Try and get them to guarantee results.

Good luck!

Hi Ed.

Thank you for your post. From a novice buyer's perspective and from the website promise on Mason and Hamlin website:

"The feel or touch of a Mason & Hamlin piano is responsive to the pianist’s most subtle nuances, allowing ultimate control, expression, and the highest level of playability possible. The finest quality keys deftly transmit the dynamics of a pianist’s fingers to the tips of the Premium Blue hammers–from the softest pianissimo to the boldest double fortissimo."

I expected that the sales price of a new piano would include the piano performing as described. Did not realize that pianos left the factory incomplete. Again, analogy to buying a car: pay more for a new car and expect to have to put no money into it other than basic oil change (or tuning) vs. buying a used car for less money expecting to pay for some more expensive repairs. Lesson learned.

Now that I know this, I would have just gone to a rebuilder directly or bought a used piano for half the price, then spend $10,000 for custom improvements.

I will take your advice and try to get a proposal with guaranteed results and go from there. Thank you!

Greetings,
I am a little lost here. $6000 worth of work on an action that doesn't require parts replacement seems high. That would buy 60 hours of my time, and that is enough to repin the entire action, rebush the keys, weigh every key and hammer, calculate my weight curves and set keys and hammers to them, shape hammers, put it together and regulate, tune and voice and still have a day or two left over. And,that is a worst case scenario.

This isn't rocket science. Other than the nightmarish work of the 1960-70's, I haven't seen a Mason and Hamlin action yet that couldn't be made to whisper,with control.

And, you could have spent twice as much on another brand, and still had all these problems, too!
Regards,

I thought the same thing, Ed. That's alot more than I charge. I assumed that it must have included parts. But who knows?

Leah, you know as a novice buyer who just wants the action to play quieter, it can probably be done for under $1,000.

Many technicians on here assume you want the action to perform flawlessly with comprehensive work, that will make your new Mason perform better than any other new Mason out there.

There's no way to tell without looking at it first hand - whether these problems that you perceive are resultant from one simple thing that is out of adjustment, or 10 things. It could be something very simple.

One thing I've learned is it's always a surprise what various people sense and how it differs.

It sounds like you are very disappointed and just want your new piano to work like it should. That I understand. It would be fair for your dealer, who sold you a piano not regulated properly, to pay for part of this.

Ed Foote,
I am assuming Leah's AA has Renner Blue hammers. Which will not produce a full dynamic range with the type of tone color BB's are historically noted for that is durable. The felt is too dense, heavy and inelastic. So the price range I give is for hammer replacement and complete tone regulation.

I also caution her to have the capo bar checked for any hardening and if it has those hard bridge pins they used recently-there will always be this added metallic edge to the treble that is not characteristic of the historic AA sound.

Just to clarify....

It is a AA model

The 5-6K Was quoted to do a Stanwoodization of the action which I believe is quite extensive.

LeahG,
Thanks for the correction. I will edit my previous post to read AA where it read BB. I will leave my other post as is.
Thanks