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Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: maurus] #2222597
01/29/14 03:28 PM
01/29/14 03:28 PM
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Normangh Offline OP
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Thank you sir. Will do.

Norm


Music is Life!!!
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Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: maurus] #2222600
01/29/14 03:29 PM
01/29/14 03:29 PM
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I think you will get an idea from playing the GF action (the absolute top end Kawai) in the CA65 or CA95 - even though the key fulcrum length is more realistic in the GF, the characteristics are similar. you should find these more available as demo models, particularly in acoustic piano shops (where Kawai likes to position themselves, as opposed to in those sweaty pubescent dens where you might find casio's rolands or yamahas). Check the Kawai website for stockists in Toronto.

Also, like maurus says, the MP10 is technically the same mechanically, just without a third sensor. I haven't tried them back to back, but I assume the feel is almost identical.

But I implore you to try something at least similar before you buy. Honestly, I was in exactly the same position as you. If you can, take a laptop with pianoteq full or demo version into the store.

Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Normangh] #2222638
01/29/14 04:28 PM
01/29/14 04:28 PM
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If you are buying online and do so sight unseen, save the box. You can typically return the piano if you end up disappointed. It won't be cheap to send back but it's cheaper than keeping a piano you end up not liking. It's always better to demo beforehand, but if that's not an option, buying with the expectation of returning if you don't like it is more feasible than one might think.

Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Rappy] #2222717
01/29/14 06:53 PM
01/29/14 06:53 PM
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Normangh Offline OP
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Thank you, Rappy.

Will do.

Norm


Music is Life!!!
Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Normangh] #2222790
01/29/14 09:33 PM
01/29/14 09:33 PM
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Chicago, IL
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Well listening to the uTube video of the VPC. "Wow" Very impressive sound using that Galaxy software. I see why you all like this dp!


Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.

New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.
Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Kawai James] #2222889
01/30/14 01:06 AM
01/30/14 01:06 AM
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Boston, MA
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Wow, thanks for the kind words folks! wink

Originally Posted by voxpops
Apologies for talking about you in the third person, James. wink


Not at all!

It reminded me of one of my favourite Seinfeld episodes, in which a character continually speaks about himself in the third person. wink

"James is grateful for all the compliments."

Cheers,
James
x


As someone who used to represent a manufacturer (Kurzweil) on several forums, I'm pleased to see you on this one James and I think you do a stellar job.

Having a company rep engaging with end users on forums is a good thing for everyone, as long as there is full disclosure about the guy's job.
A good rep can provide accurate information, (gently) correct factually incorrect claims or misconceptions and explain the intent behind certain features, while also providing lots of helpful tips.

In my own experience, I'd say about 30% of the features that Kurzweil R&D added to products like the PC3 in OS updates came directly from participation on forums.

Most forum readers are smart - they can easily spot the difference between marketing BS and helpful information.
And so most reps tend to stick with the latter and avoid the former.

Back when I worked for Kurz, I found this book to be particularly helpful when dealing with forums and social media.
http://thankyoueconomybook.com/




Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Normangh] #2222936
01/30/14 05:05 AM
01/30/14 05:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Thank you very much Dave!

While I don't have a great deal of knowledge about Kurzweil boards, I know that your involvement in the their development and subsequent support has been invaluable to the community of loyal Kurz fans.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Normangh] #2222947
01/30/14 06:10 AM
01/30/14 06:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 328
Italy
Qbert Offline
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Italy
When I bought my VPC it was.... how can I say in English?... blind purchase, blind buying?
Being one of the first available here, I bought it online. Up to date, I don't regret my purchase!


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Normangh] #2225685
02/04/14 10:51 AM
02/04/14 10:51 AM
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Posts: 100
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dr.dai phan Offline
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Hi all,

I am one of the people in the US to get this controller as soon as it was released last year. I can tell you the action is the best of any controllers that I placed my hands on. I however wished the QC could be a little better. One replacement for my original board had the red felt misaligned and clanking sounds in the middle keys. Because it was such a hassle to return and recieve due to size and weight, I ended up keeping my original and sent the defective one back. Dai

Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Normangh] #2226034
02/04/14 10:38 PM
02/04/14 10:38 PM
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To those who have switched to the VPC1, has the amount of your daily practice time changed with the VPC1? My biggest concern with using a midi controller as my main piano is that I will not want to practice as much since I will have longer sound loading times compared to something with an on-board sound generator. But I also figured that in my region there is an 800-900$ price difference between the VPC1 and MP10 or RD800. With that money, I could just buy a new laptop and use my current laptop solely for the VPC1 with a VSTi always loaded.

Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: CountSmith] #2226039
02/04/14 11:18 PM
02/04/14 11:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 48
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dbudde Online content
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Originally Posted by CountSmith
To those who have switched to the VPC1, has the amount of your daily practice time changed with the VPC1?


Uh, no. It took longer to boot my old PC2X than it does to load a piano VST. And I use one of the largest piano sample libraries (Vienna Imperial). Granted I have a fast computer with SSD. But no reason you can't do that. If the computer ever gets in the way of my practice time (it won't), I'll dedicate a headless mac mini to this and leave it loaded and on all the time.

Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: CountSmith] #2226145
02/05/14 05:48 AM
02/05/14 05:48 AM
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Posts: 267
Czech Republic
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PtJaa Offline
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Quote
My biggest concern with using a midi controller as my main piano is that I will not want to practice as much since I will have longer sound loading times compared to something with an on-board sound generator.

Are you talking about the time to boot up the computer or the time to start the piano application?

Starting time of the piano application greatly varies between applications. For example, in Galaxy pianos, I click on the Kontakt icon on the desktop and the next second I can play (I saved my favorite piano as default Kontakt setting). It takes me about 15 seconds to start the True Keys pianos, possibly also on one click.


Kawai CA65 :: Galaxy: Vintage D, Vienna Grand, Giant :: Pianoteq 5 :: Kontakt 5 :: Reaper :: True Keys pianos
Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: PtJaa] #2226148
02/05/14 06:04 AM
02/05/14 06:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,091
uk south
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dire tonic Offline
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Originally Posted by PtJaa
Quote
My biggest concern with using a midi controller as my main piano is that I will not want to practice as much since I will have longer sound loading times compared to something with an on-board sound generator.

Are you talking about the time to boot up the computer or the time to start the piano application?

Starting time of the piano application greatly varies between applications. For example, in Galaxy pianos, I click on the Kontakt icon on the desktop and the next second I can play (I saved my favorite piano as default Kontakt setting). It takes me about 15 seconds to start the True Keys pianos, possibly also on one click.


Same here, Kontakt is FAST if you set up defaults and use an SSD.

The faff of having to set up the sound was my biggest single reservation about the VPC1 but I've found it not to be an issue at all even with the extra faff of having to move the laptop from the sofa, where I relax, to the VPC1 to play. If anything there's a possible benefit; in having gone to the 'trouble' of setting it up I then feel I can only justify this effort by putting in a good stint of practice. In contrast, the convenience of something instant almost invites me to treat it too casually.

Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Normangh] #2226156
02/05/14 06:36 AM
02/05/14 06:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 13
Amsterdam
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Do you feel that the pivot point length is sufficiently long?

That is my main concern about buying a VPC1. I have a lot of pieces which require me to play near very end of the keys. I'd imagine that something like Ravel's Jeux d'eau would be rather difficult to perform, if this were an issue.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a VPC1 for me to test this.

Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: DCCCXLV] #2226159
02/05/14 06:55 AM
02/05/14 06:55 AM
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uk south
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Originally Posted by QNCLM
Do you feel that the pivot point length is sufficiently long?

That is my main concern about buying a VPC1. I have a lot of pieces which require me to play near very end of the keys. I'd imagine that something like Ravel's Jeux d'eau would be rather difficult to perform, if this were an issue.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a VPC1 for me to test this.


Jeux d'eau is above my skill level, maybe someone else will give you more of an idea.

Is it possible that a more skilled pianist might find it easier to cope with a shorter key length both because of strength and the experience of being able to adapt to a wider range of different keyboards?

...just guessing.

Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: DCCCXLV] #2226163
02/05/14 07:07 AM
02/05/14 07:07 AM
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Rocky Mountains
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Originally Posted by QNCLM
Do you feel that the pivot point length is sufficiently long?

... I have a lot of pieces which require me to play near very end of the keys...


Where I notice pivot point the most is up at the top of the keys. Where I'm playing both black and white. Very much throws me off on many keyboards, especially entry level. Not an issue at all on my VPC.



Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
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Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: CountSmith] #2226194
02/05/14 09:10 AM
02/05/14 09:10 AM
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St. Louis, MO, USA
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Originally Posted by CountSmith
My biggest concern with using a midi controller as my main piano is that I will not want to practice as much since I will have longer sound loading times compared to something with an on-board sound generator.

I use the VPC1 with Kontakt in a VST shell program. The way my computer is set up, I put it into S3 sleep at night. It takes just 11 seconds to wake up, ready to play and displaying the same score as when it went to sleep.

The VPC1 stays on right through the sleep period (its power drain is miniscule) and there is no wear factor associated with leaving it on.

Maybe once a week I have to reboot the computer (it's Windows), but even then it only takes a minute or two to get everything going again.


Jack
Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: DCCCXLV] #2226195
02/05/14 09:18 AM
02/05/14 09:18 AM
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Boynton Beach, FL
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Originally Posted by QNCLM
Do you feel that the pivot point length is sufficiently long?

That is my main concern about buying a VPC1. I have a lot of pieces which require me to play near very end of the keys. I'd imagine that something like Ravel's Jeux d'eau would be rather difficult to perform, if this were an issue.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a VPC1 for me to test this.


I think the adjustment you would have to make all depends on the heaviness of the piano you currently practice on. The difference is there, but it's something you can work around just like with any piano. If you don't like heavy actions, though, I recommend against getting the VPC1. You will want to look at Yamaha or Roland for a lighter action.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: Morodiene] #2226263
02/05/14 11:40 AM
02/05/14 11:40 AM
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Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
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Marcos Daniel Offline
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Originally Posted by Morodiene


I think the adjustment you would have to make all depends on the heaviness of the piano you currently practice on. The difference is there, but it's something you can work around just like with any piano. If you don't like heavy actions, though, I recommend against getting the VPC1. You will want to look at Yamaha or Roland for a lighter action.


I think that an important factor is the size of your hands, for small hands, a close pivot point may be less noticeable than for bigger hands.

From another post the pivot point of RM3 is about 7.25 inches (http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1778344/NEKID%20PICHURES!!%20%28Kawai%20MP10%29.html#Post1778344)

On accoustic pianos pivot point is beyond 10 inches in most cases, but I don't know exactly and I guess it varies.

Last edited by Marcos Daniel; 02/05/14 11:40 AM.

Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
Re: Kawai VPC-1... the best midi controller to date? [Re: DCCCXLV] #2226300
02/05/14 12:56 PM
02/05/14 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by QNCLM
Do you feel that the pivot point length is sufficiently long?

That is my main concern about buying a VPC1. I have a lot of pieces which require me to play near very end of the keys. I'd imagine that something like Ravel's Jeux d'eau would be rather difficult to perform, if this were an issue.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a VPC1 for me to test this.

You should try a Kawai with the RM3 action and see whether it would do for you. An MP10, perhaps, should be available somewhere near you. Or the older models CA13/63/93. The VPC1 action (RM3-II) is very similar (and slightly better for repetition) to these instruments (RM3). Even better, a CA15 (with RM3-II as in the VPC1). Nothing will help to answer your question better than you yourself testing the action with the literature you're interested in.

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