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Some more help needed!! kawai es7 or p255 #2221273
01/27/14 06:38 AM
01/27/14 06:38 AM
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musicman100 Offline OP
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Hi,

I am just sending the casio px350 back to the shop because there are certain things i did not like about it( although certain things I did).

I was going to get the kawai es100 but I have now decided to up my budget to around 1000. I am looking at the kawai es7 * although there has been quality issue with these) and the Yamaha p255 ( I am not convinced about the GH action). Any one has experience of these? and are there any others i should look at?

I need a good piano type keyboard, usb wave recording , usb port ,sequencer,.

Thanks


Last edited by musicman100; 01/29/14 07:52 AM.

http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

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Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221283
01/27/14 07:13 AM
01/27/14 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by musicman100
I am just sending the casio px350 back to the shop because there are certain things i did not like about it( although certain things I did).

I am curious - what were the things that you did not like about the px350?


"It offers what you want, not what you need."
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221290
01/27/14 07:32 AM
01/27/14 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by musicman100
I am looking at the kawai es7 * although there has been quality issue with these)...


May I ask what you are referring to specifically? I don't recall seeing quality issues reported in this forum.

Originally Posted by musicman100
... and the Yamaha p255 ( I am not convinced about the GH action).


Again, may I ask why? The GH action is used in a wide range of Yamaha instruments.

My recommendation would be to visit your local Kawai and Yamaha piano dealers and play-test both models extensively.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221304
01/27/14 08:00 AM
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musicman100 Offline OP
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Before I say the reasons I did try it in the shop but it is very hard to know if it is the right one after playing for 30 mins or so.

The speakers are not great. The piano sample was good but the middle frequency are a bit weak although that could be the speakers.
I like the feel of the keys and the action felt good but some bottom keys did start to sound louder then the others and i was unsure about the build quality. The keys do make a loud sound not really noticeable when you play medium loud at half volume but if you play quietly you do notice them. The controls were very confusing and it took me ages to figure out how to load wave files form the usb stick even after reading the manual!!!. It was really annoying not be able to load wave files unless there were called 'Take XX'

The styles are not that great although you have to remember the price point of this keyboard ( I am used to playing styles of the Tyros 4 so I have been spoiled!!). I did use the sequencer but only for one track-multi tracking looked quite complicated to do.

So overall I thought it had a good action, not bad piano sample and the other features are not that great. But for the price it is not bad piano. I have just decided to pay more and get a better piano sound and features that I can use.

that is why i am now looking at the kawai es7 or the yamaha

Thanks


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
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Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221311
01/27/14 08:15 AM
01/27/14 08:15 AM
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musicman100 Offline OP
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Hi James,

I know the internet is terrible for this- one problem and everyone knows about it.The internet does not show the people who had no problems just the people that did, so you have to take it with a pinch of salt.

It was on this forum-

Kawai ES7 Action/Feel

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2063683/1.html

A couple of people mentioned the problem.

Also this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RNhJb-cBFg

I am sure it is a one off and the person did get good service form Kawai, but it is something you consider when you are spending over a 1000 on the keyboard.

Also james you might now this does the Es7 have fingered on bass so you can play inverted chords?

thanks




http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221336
01/27/14 09:15 AM
01/27/14 09:15 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by musicman100
I know the internet is terrible for this- one problem and everyone knows about it.The internet does not show the people who had no problems just the people that did, so you have to take it with a pinch of salt.


Yes, I agree. Individuals are far more likely to post about problems and issue with a product - be it a digital piano, a computer, a car etc. - than positive or even neutral feedback.

Originally Posted by musicman100
Also james you might now this does the Es7 have fingered on bass so you can play inverted chords?


Yes, I believe so. The ES7's chord recognition is quite extensive.
Can you perhaps provide an example of what you would intend to play, and the anticipated result? I can then double check this behaviour with one of the ES7 engineers.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: Kawai James] #2221353
01/27/14 09:58 AM
01/27/14 09:58 AM
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musicman100 Offline OP
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Hi James,

Thank you for your help.

Here are some examples

C C/B C/A C/G so I expect the bass to play C B A G while the chords remain on C

How doe sit deal with 13ths and sus 2nd chords.

I looked at the manual and in the rhythm section present list it lists 13th and C/G chords so it must recognise them?

Also when you record audio does it record what is sent to the audio in?

On a off topic comment working for a keyboard company is my dream job!! I did once apply to Yamaha when I left college but did not get anywhere. I always wanted to write a rhythm pattern for a keyboard,ever since getting my first keyboard a Yamaha psr75( in 1983!!). Maybe one day.


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221360
01/27/14 10:31 AM
01/27/14 10:31 AM
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Out of curiosity, what really is the advantage in having an automated bass line? Is it just to save time? Because, apart from that, it looks, to me, quite like predictive spelling in word processing programs, where the machine tries to tell you what's best rather than you telling the machine. On those occasions, the machine almost has ideas very different from mine and I have to read it out the riot act in order for there not to be a serious crisis of authority.

If it came to music, the personality clash would become evident even sooner, I imagine.


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Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221425
01/27/14 12:13 PM
01/27/14 12:13 PM
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I actually found the automated bass on the FP-4 to be quite helpful in practicing. I could simulate playing with a trio, work on keeping constant meter, and develop comping and solo chops. Much better than trying to stay in synch with a metronome.

However, I wouldn't be trying to force the bass line into a descending pattern or something so specific. If you do need such, for performance, for example, then your bass lines are probably so specific that you'll need to play with a sequencer or sequencer program of some kind.


Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93, Kurzweil SP6, EV ZXA1
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221430
01/27/14 12:18 PM
01/27/14 12:18 PM
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I could simulate playing with a trio, work on keeping constant meter, and develop comping and solo chops. Much better than trying to stay in synch with a metronome.


Yes - it's good for building up improvisations and solos, I imagine. I think I'm just a bit paranoid about machines beginning to take over real musicians - or on the other hand, the machine being so predictable that it's not worth bothering with.

But I can see your point!


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221443
01/27/14 12:45 PM
01/27/14 12:45 PM
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musicman100 Offline OP
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I use it a lot when I am composing songs so I can hear more fully the arrangement. It is also useful if you are trying to compose in a certain style it can give you ideas. As for the bass line - fingered bass is essential for my composing work and playing music since the bass is an essential part of the harmony - if it is just the root note the music does not sound right, try playing A Whiter Shade of Pale without the right bass line it does not work or Phil Collins in the air tonight.


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221514
01/27/14 03:21 PM
01/27/14 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by musicman100
I use it a lot when I am composing songs so I can hear more fully the arrangement. It is also useful if you are trying to compose in a certain style it can give you ideas. As for the bass line - fingered bass is essential for my composing work and playing music since the bass is an essential part of the harmony - if it is just the root note the music does not sound right, try playing A Whiter Shade of Pale without the right bass line it does not work or Phil Collins in the air tonight.


I agree with you that you need to invert chords for any kind of reasonable bass line.....but I still don't understand why you'd want a machine to do it, rather than using a human being to voice the progression.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

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Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: toddy] #2221532
01/27/14 04:01 PM
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I agree in an ideal world I would use live musicians but when composing or playing by your self it just makes it more fun!!


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221545
01/27/14 04:23 PM
01/27/14 04:23 PM
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Well, I'm all in favour of that, yes. And, in general, I'm all in favour of new technology, too.

Just so long as the musician lead the machines in the direction they (the musician) wants to go, and not the other way round.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221644
01/27/14 07:44 PM
01/27/14 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Here are some examples

C C/B C/A C/G so I expect the bass to play C B A G while the chords remain on C

How doe sit deal with 13ths and sus 2nd chords.

I looked at the manual and in the rhythm section present list it lists 13th and C/G chords so it must recognise them?


I have asked my colleagues to confirm the chord recognition/handling, so will update you when I receive a response.

Regarding this query:

Originally Posted by musicman100
Also when you record audio does it record what is sent to the audio in?


No, I'm afraid not. Currently, only the MP10, CA95, and CS10 support this extended functionality.

Originally Posted by musicman100
On a off topic comment working for a keyboard company is my dream job!!


Yes, I'm very fortunate to be here. wink
I grew up around keyboards and digital pianos, studying the owner's manuals to understand how the instruments worked. It's amazing how things have gone full-circle, in that now I'm the person responsible for (most of) the manuals.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221651
01/27/14 08:18 PM
01/27/14 08:18 PM
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I received a prompt response from my colleague, who write:

Quote
Yes, the ES7 has fingered on bass when ACC Mode is set to 'Full Keyboard' (the default is 'Normal').

When you play C C/B C/A C/G, the bass is played C B A G while the chords remain on C.

The bass is detected by the lowest key at a distance of octaves from the right hand.


Regarding your 13th / sus2nd query, these chords are not detected/available to the rhythm section.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2221768
01/28/14 06:50 AM
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Is 'Fingered on bass' the only mode that recognizes chord inversions ??


10.000 clowns on a rainy day
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2222365
01/29/14 07:51 AM
01/29/14 07:51 AM
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Yes it looks like it only recognised inverted chords in Full fingered mode.

Anyway what do people think of the Kawai es7 compared to the Yamaha p255? or would it be wise to look at the kawai mp6?

I am looking at about 1000 (these are all about 1100 to 1200 in the UK so should be able to get a discount)

Are there any other models I should consider?

thanks


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2222380
01/29/14 08:35 AM
01/29/14 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Anyway what do people think of the Kawai es7 compared to the Yamaha p255?


I've yet to try the new Yamaha, however the previous generation P155 was a solid, well-regarded mid-range DP, so I expect the updated model will maintain this reputation.

Originally Posted by musicman100
would it be wise to look at the kawai mp6?


If you require additional controller functions and a broader range of sounds, yes. However, please note that the MP6 does not feature instrumental backing accompaniments, just drum patterns.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100] #2222798
01/29/14 08:58 PM
01/29/14 08:58 PM
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Musicman, I am glad that you've started this thread. I've also narrowed down my choices to these two pianos. Still going back and forth....Undecided


Andrew
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