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#2221273 - 01/27/14 07:38 AM Some more help needed!! kawai es7 or p255  
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Hi,

I am just sending the casio px350 back to the shop because there are certain things i did not like about it( although certain things I did).

I was going to get the kawai es100 but I have now decided to up my budget to around £1000. I am looking at the kawai es7 * although there has been quality issue with these) and the Yamaha p255 ( I am not convinced about the GH action). Any one has experience of these? and are there any others i should look at?

I need a good piano type keyboard, usb wave recording , usb port ,sequencer,.

Thanks


Last edited by musicman100; 01/29/14 08:52 AM.
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#2221283 - 01/27/14 08:13 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
I am just sending the casio px350 back to the shop because there are certain things i did not like about it( although certain things I did).

I am curious - what were the things that you did not like about the px350?


"It offers what you want, not what you need."
#2221290 - 01/27/14 08:32 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by musicman100
I am looking at the kawai es7 * although there has been quality issue with these)...


May I ask what you are referring to specifically? I don't recall seeing quality issues reported in this forum.

Originally Posted by musicman100
... and the Yamaha p255 ( I am not convinced about the GH action).


Again, may I ask why? The GH action is used in a wide range of Yamaha instruments.

My recommendation would be to visit your local Kawai and Yamaha piano dealers and play-test both models extensively.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2221304 - 01/27/14 09:00 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Before I say the reasons I did try it in the shop but it is very hard to know if it is the right one after playing for 30 mins or so.

The speakers are not great. The piano sample was good but the middle frequency are a bit weak although that could be the speakers.
I like the feel of the keys and the action felt good but some bottom keys did start to sound louder then the others and i was unsure about the build quality. The keys do make a loud sound not really noticeable when you play medium loud at half volume but if you play quietly you do notice them. The controls were very confusing and it took me ages to figure out how to load wave files form the usb stick even after reading the manual!!!. It was really annoying not be able to load wave files unless there were called 'Take XX'

The styles are not that great although you have to remember the price point of this keyboard ( I am used to playing styles of the Tyros 4 so I have been spoiled!!). I did use the sequencer but only for one track-multi tracking looked quite complicated to do.

So overall I thought it had a good action, not bad piano sample and the other features are not that great. But for the price it is not bad piano. I have just decided to pay more and get a better piano sound and features that I can use.

that is why i am now looking at the kawai es7 or the yamaha

Thanks

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#2221311 - 01/27/14 09:15 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Hi James,

I know the internet is terrible for this- one problem and everyone knows about it.The internet does not show the people who had no problems just the people that did, so you have to take it with a pinch of salt.

It was on this forum-

Kawai ES7 Action/Feel

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2063683/1.html

A couple of people mentioned the problem.

Also this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RNhJb-cBFg

I am sure it is a one off and the person did get good service form Kawai, but it is something you consider when you are spending over a 1000 on the keyboard.

Also james you might now this does the Es7 have fingered on bass so you can play inverted chords?

thanks



#2221336 - 01/27/14 10:15 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by musicman100
I know the internet is terrible for this- one problem and everyone knows about it.The internet does not show the people who had no problems just the people that did, so you have to take it with a pinch of salt.


Yes, I agree. Individuals are far more likely to post about problems and issue with a product - be it a digital piano, a computer, a car etc. - than positive or even neutral feedback.

Originally Posted by musicman100
Also james you might now this does the Es7 have fingered on bass so you can play inverted chords?


Yes, I believe so. The ES7's chord recognition is quite extensive.
Can you perhaps provide an example of what you would intend to play, and the anticipated result? I can then double check this behaviour with one of the ES7 engineers.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2221353 - 01/27/14 10:58 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: Kawai James]  
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Hi James,

Thank you for your help.

Here are some examples

C C/B C/A C/G so I expect the bass to play C B A G while the chords remain on C

How doe sit deal with 13ths and sus 2nd chords.

I looked at the manual and in the rhythm section present list it lists 13th and C/G chords so it must recognise them?

Also when you record audio does it record what is sent to the audio in?

On a off topic comment working for a keyboard company is my dream job!! I did once apply to Yamaha when I left college but did not get anywhere. I always wanted to write a rhythm pattern for a keyboard,ever since getting my first keyboard a Yamaha psr75( in 1983!!). Maybe one day.

#2221360 - 01/27/14 11:31 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Out of curiosity, what really is the advantage in having an automated bass line? Is it just to save time? Because, apart from that, it looks, to me, quite like predictive spelling in word processing programs, where the machine tries to tell you what's best rather than you telling the machine. On those occasions, the machine almost has ideas very different from mine and I have to read it out the riot act in order for there not to be a serious crisis of authority.

If it came to music, the personality clash would become evident even sooner, I imagine.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2221425 - 01/27/14 01:13 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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I actually found the automated bass on the FP-4 to be quite helpful in practicing. I could simulate playing with a trio, work on keeping constant meter, and develop comping and solo chops. Much better than trying to stay in synch with a metronome.

However, I wouldn't be trying to force the bass line into a descending pattern or something so specific. If you do need such, for performance, for example, then your bass lines are probably so specific that you'll need to play with a sequencer or sequencer program of some kind.


Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93
#2221430 - 01/27/14 01:18 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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I could simulate playing with a trio, work on keeping constant meter, and develop comping and solo chops. Much better than trying to stay in synch with a metronome.


Yes - it's good for building up improvisations and solos, I imagine. I think I'm just a bit paranoid about machines beginning to take over real musicians - or on the other hand, the machine being so predictable that it's not worth bothering with.

But I can see your point!


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2221443 - 01/27/14 01:45 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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I use it a lot when I am composing songs so I can hear more fully the arrangement. It is also useful if you are trying to compose in a certain style it can give you ideas. As for the bass line - fingered bass is essential for my composing work and playing music since the bass is an essential part of the harmony - if it is just the root note the music does not sound right, try playing A Whiter Shade of Pale without the right bass line it does not work or Phil Collins in the air tonight.

#2221514 - 01/27/14 04:21 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
I use it a lot when I am composing songs so I can hear more fully the arrangement. It is also useful if you are trying to compose in a certain style it can give you ideas. As for the bass line - fingered bass is essential for my composing work and playing music since the bass is an essential part of the harmony - if it is just the root note the music does not sound right, try playing A Whiter Shade of Pale without the right bass line it does not work or Phil Collins in the air tonight.


I agree with you that you need to invert chords for any kind of reasonable bass line.....but I still don't understand why you'd want a machine to do it, rather than using a human being to voice the progression.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2221532 - 01/27/14 05:01 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: toddy]  
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I agree in an ideal world I would use live musicians but when composing or playing by your self it just makes it more fun!!

#2221545 - 01/27/14 05:23 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Well, I'm all in favour of that, yes. And, in general, I'm all in favour of new technology, too.

Just so long as the musician lead the machines in the direction they (the musician) wants to go, and not the other way round.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2221644 - 01/27/14 08:44 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Here are some examples

C C/B C/A C/G so I expect the bass to play C B A G while the chords remain on C

How doe sit deal with 13ths and sus 2nd chords.

I looked at the manual and in the rhythm section present list it lists 13th and C/G chords so it must recognise them?


I have asked my colleagues to confirm the chord recognition/handling, so will update you when I receive a response.

Regarding this query:

Originally Posted by musicman100
Also when you record audio does it record what is sent to the audio in?


No, I'm afraid not. Currently, only the MP10, CA95, and CS10 support this extended functionality.

Originally Posted by musicman100
On a off topic comment working for a keyboard company is my dream job!!


Yes, I'm very fortunate to be here. wink
I grew up around keyboards and digital pianos, studying the owner's manuals to understand how the instruments worked. It's amazing how things have gone full-circle, in that now I'm the person responsible for (most of) the manuals.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2221651 - 01/27/14 09:18 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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I received a prompt response from my colleague, who write:

Quote
Yes, the ES7 has fingered on bass when ACC Mode is set to 'Full Keyboard' (the default is 'Normal').

When you play C C/B C/A C/G, the bass is played C B A G while the chords remain on C.

The bass is detected by the lowest key at a distance of octaves from the right hand.


Regarding your 13th / sus2nd query, these chords are not detected/available to the rhythm section.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2221768 - 01/28/14 07:50 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Is 'Fingered on bass' the only mode that recognizes chord inversions ??


10.000 clowns on a rainy day
#2222365 - 01/29/14 08:51 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Yes it looks like it only recognised inverted chords in Full fingered mode.

Anyway what do people think of the Kawai es7 compared to the Yamaha p255? or would it be wise to look at the kawai mp6?

I am looking at about £1000 (these are all about 1100 to 1200 in the UK so should be able to get a discount)

Are there any other models I should consider?

thanks

#2222380 - 01/29/14 09:35 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Anyway what do people think of the Kawai es7 compared to the Yamaha p255?


I've yet to try the new Yamaha, however the previous generation P155 was a solid, well-regarded mid-range DP, so I expect the updated model will maintain this reputation.

Originally Posted by musicman100
would it be wise to look at the kawai mp6?


If you require additional controller functions and a broader range of sounds, yes. However, please note that the MP6 does not feature instrumental backing accompaniments, just drum patterns.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2222798 - 01/29/14 09:58 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Musicman, I am glad that you've started this thread. I've also narrowed down my choices to these two pianos. Still going back and forth....Undecided


Andrew
#2222916 - 01/30/14 03:03 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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FWIW --

I haven't played (or tested) either DP, so take this comment FWIW.

The ES7 has "string resonance" as one of its features. I'm pretty sure that the P255 does not.

I suspect that "string resonance" is an important part of the difference in sound between typical DP's and acoustic pianos. It's implemented well by Roland. I haven't tested the implementation on the ES7.

That would be an important difference, to me, if I were choosing between the two pianos.

. Charles

PS -- It's time that I visited the local Kawai dealer to try the ES7 . . .


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2222948 - 01/30/14 06:26 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: Charles Cohen]  
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
FWIW --


The ES7 has "string resonance" as one of its features. I'm pretty sure that the P255 does not.

I suspect that "string resonance" is an important part of the difference in sound between typical DP's and acoustic pianos. It's implemented well by Roland. I haven't tested the implementation on the ES7.

That would be an important difference, to me, if I were choosing between the two pianos.

. Charles



Hi Charles,

According to the Yamaha site the p255 does have string resonance

http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/mu...digitalpianos/p_series/p-255/?mode=model

#2222952 - 01/30/14 06:42 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: surgtech]  
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Originally Posted by surgtech
Musicman, I am glad that you've started this thread. I've also narrowed down my choices to these two pianos. Still going back and forth....Undecided


Yes I am lucky that in the UK the pianos are the same price ( does not happen very often in UK usually USA is cheaper!!!) I don't understand the pricing in today exchange rates the es7 here is £1100 and in the USA is $1999 which is not far from $1804. The yamaha is £1100 here and only $1299 in the USA but with today exchange rate would be $1804. The RRP is still higher on Kawai in usa is $2399 but only discounted to $1999 , on the P255 the RRP is $1999 but discounted to $1299, So it seems like for some reason there is heavy discount on the Yamaha.

Crazy pricing!!

I need to find a dealer that has them both in stock so I can try them side by side.

#2223336 - 01/30/14 10:02 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
. . .

Hi Charles,

According to the Yamaha site the p255 does have string resonance

http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/mu...digitalpianos/p_series/p-255/?mode=model


Yes, it does. Thank you for the correction.

. Charles

PS -- now I _really_ have to check out the ES7 !<g>


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2223478 - 01/31/14 07:44 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Before I say the reasons I did try it in the shop but it is very hard to know if it is the right one after playing for 30 mins or so.

The speakers are not great. The piano sample was good but the middle frequency are a bit weak although that could be the speakers.
I like the feel of the keys and the action felt good but some bottom keys did start to sound louder then the others and i was unsure about the build quality. The keys do make a loud sound not really noticeable when you play medium loud at half volume but if you play quietly you do notice them. The controls were very confusing and it took me ages to figure out how to load wave files form the usb stick even after reading the manual!!!. It was really annoying not be able to load wave files unless there were called 'Take XX'

The styles are not that great although you have to remember the price point of this keyboard ( I am used to playing styles of the Tyros 4 so I have been spoiled!!). I did use the sequencer but only for one track-multi tracking looked quite complicated to do.

So overall I thought it had a good action, not bad piano sample and the other features are not that great. But for the price it is not bad piano. I have just decided to pay more and get a better piano sound and features that I can use.

that is why i am now looking at the kawai es7 or the yamaha

Thanks


The reasons you mentioned here are those which prevented me getting one. Even the AP650 falls foul o` some of those. I got the DGX 650. Love it. Not everybody`s cup of tea but recording is simples (audio and MIDI) And the 5 track recorder is adequate for simple sequencing. I love the new piano sound. Bright and Brash. Piano action isn`t brill.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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#2223511 - 01/31/14 09:55 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Although I've played P255 only briefly, I am very acquainted with GH action and in my personal opinion it is inferior compared to RH2 action found in ES7. This is a matter of taste though.

As a current owner of ES7 I really believe it is currently the best portable piano in that price range. That's also a personal opinion of course smile


https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
#2223548 - 01/31/14 11:13 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: CyberGene]  
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Hi Evgeny,

Just listening to your music is all the music played on the es7?

Do you have any youtube videos of you playing then es7?

Also could I ask you further questions about the kawai?

Thanks

Nigel

PS You have got through a lot of digital pianos!!!

#2223551 - 01/31/14 11:15 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Just realised the music is from 2007 and 2008 so obviously not on the es7!!!! Do you have examples played on the es7

thanks

#2223622 - 01/31/14 01:27 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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I have had my ES7 for about a month (it replaced my MP6 which in turn replaced my CA63) so I don't have Youtube videos yet but I hope I can post anything soon smile

P.S. Sure, you can ask me anything about ES7. There are many ES7 users on the forum, so there's a lot of know-how smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/31/14 01:31 PM.

https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
#2223646 - 01/31/14 02:00 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: CyberGene]  
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Hi,

I have been looking at the MP6 why did you choose to replace it with an es7 which are very similar ?

I can see you have tired every major manufacture- and you choose kawai so would you say it has the best sound and keyboard feel then?

Thanks

Last edited by musicman100; 01/31/14 02:02 PM.
#2223866 - 01/31/14 09:36 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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I have a Kawai MP6 and just got a ES7 a month ago. A music store was going out of business and had a ES7 in box. I was in the right place to pick one up for not a lot of money.

I use the ES7 primarily for practice and I love the sound and action. It sits across from my Baldwin Hamilton in our great room. that way I can play at night or just play something that sounds different from the Hamilton. I found the touch to be quite remarkable. I like the sound of the Kawai instruments. That is a personal preference though. I have owned a couple of Yamaha pianos and they were quite nice except I did not like the keyboard. Also I have access to a Privia 350. I agree with you about the sound. It sounds much better using outboard speakers. Also remember to plug in the headphones to kill the onboard speakers. It does make a difference in the sound. I do like the keyboard a great deal compared to anything else in the price range. I have not tried the ES100 yet. Although I have a Kawai ES4 that uses the same sound samples.

The MP6, even though both instruments both use Progressive Harmonic Imaging, sounds different than the ES7. Kawai James has mentions the electronics and the effects is the reason why. I use the MP6 to gig with. I play in a praise and worship band. I have to use a great many of the sounds including brass and wind instruments. These are not present in the ES7. There is no accompaniment function with the MP6. Also the MP6 does not have onboard speakers like the ES7 and Privia 350.

So I guess what I am saying is both the ES7 and the MP6 compliment each other in my case.

Also I prefer the action of the Kawai over most Yamaha's actions. Although Roland is a close second.

But I would find one of each and spend some serious time trying it out. Bring some good headphones too. Playing is really the only way you can decide which is the "better" unit according to your ears and fingers.

By the way all the major manufacturers have good pianos. It is what feels and sounds best to you. I just prefer Kawai.

#2224368 - 02/01/14 09:02 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Can iPad be connected to Kawai ES7? If not, this might be a deal breaker for me.


Andrew
#2224495 - 02/02/14 07:36 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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It has MIDI (IN/OUT), USB to Host, USB to Device.

I think you can use an Apple Camera Connection Kit!!

Here is a you tube video showing it -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jngBLQkKvM

But I don't know what version of ipad it is, I use android myself.



#2224499 - 02/02/14 07:58 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Another question about the es7 it has a stereo audio in- what does that do? does it play the sound through the speakers? or can you record the input onto the usb stick? Both of these features are available on the P255?

Thanks

Last edited by musicman100; 02/02/14 07:58 AM.
#2224504 - 02/02/14 08:25 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Another question about the es7 it has a stereo audio in- what does that do? does it play the sound through the speakers? or can you record the input onto the usb stick? Both of these features are available on the P255?

Thanks


Stereo audio "in" means that you can playu a software piano through the ES7 speakers. Or a MP3 player. Or any other audio source. Don`t know whether you can record the input using the record function on the piano.


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#2224519 - 02/02/14 09:34 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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According to the ES7 manual, "The audio recorder will only record sounds produced by the instrument. Devices connected via the LINE IN jacks will not be recorded."

Warm Regards


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#2224572 - 02/02/14 11:51 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Being an ES7 owner and having experimented/checked with Kawai, the ES7 usb recorder will only record the inbuilt ES7 sounds.

#2224826 - 02/02/14 08:45 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Another question about the es7 it has a stereo audio in- what does that do? does it play the sound through the speakers?


Correct. The Line In audio is mixed with the ES7's audio, and can be heard through the speakers and headphones/Line Out.

Originally Posted by musicman100
or can you record the input onto the usb stick?


To confirm the responses from fizikisto and sandalholme, the ES7 does not record the Line In audio to MP3/WAV - i.e. the audio will not be 'mixed' with the ES7's sound.

Originally Posted by musicman100
Both of these features are available on the P255?


I expect the first feature is possible, however I'm not sure about the second.
May I ask if you have a link to confirm that the Line In audio will also be mixed with the onboard sound when recording to USB? I couldn't find any reference to this function on the P255 page of the Yamaha website.

Kind regards,
James
x


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#2224867 - 02/02/14 10:05 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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James it looks like you can. From the P255 manual

• When recording audio, sound input via the [AUX IN] jack will also be recorded.

Warm regards


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#2224873 - 02/02/14 10:16 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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fizikisto, thank you for confirming this point.

That's a useful feature, currently only found on the higher-end Kawai models.

Cheers,
James
x


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#2224894 - 02/02/14 11:09 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: fizikisto]  
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Originally Posted by fizikisto
James it looks like you can. From the P255 manual

• When recording audio, sound input via the [AUX IN] jack will also be recorded.

Warm regards


I've made my decision, it is Yamaha P-255!!!
Placing order tomorrow.


Andrew
#2224922 - 02/03/14 12:27 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Congratulations Andrew. Hope that you love your new board. It looks like a beauty! smile



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#2224964 - 02/03/14 03:08 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: surgtech]  
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Originally Posted by surgtech
Originally Posted by fizikisto
James it looks like you can. From the P255 manual

&#149; When recording audio, sound input via the [AUX IN] jack will also be recorded.

Warm regards


I've made my decision, it is Yamaha P-255!!!
Placing order tomorrow.


Want to hear it . . . and see it!


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#2225005 - 02/03/14 06:24 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: surgtech]  
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Originally Posted by surgtech
Originally Posted by fizikisto
James it looks like you can. From the P255 manual

• When recording audio, sound input via the [AUX IN] jack will also be recorded.

Warm regards


I've made my decision, it is Yamaha P-255!!!
Placing order tomorrow.


Hi ,

Can I ask how you came to your decision?

I have jet to try either but hopefully this week I can try the yamaha.

#2225088 - 02/03/14 10:27 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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I am also curious how he came to his decision too since I am still deciding between the ES7, P-255 and FP-80/50

Is it exclusively for the iPad connectivity you mentioned earlier?

Last edited by TheArchbishop; 02/03/14 10:27 AM.
#2225395 - 02/03/14 09:26 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: TheArchbishop]  
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$900 cheaper (when purchasing furniture stand and 3-pedal unit);

iPad connectivity ( there are more and more apps like iGrand and Garageband that will give you additional sounds);

ability to record Yamaha's sound + line in;

several dealers in my city that used to carry Yamaha and Kawai, do not carry Kawai pianos anymore;

had before Yamaha P-120 and was happy with it.


Last edited by surgtech; 02/03/14 09:26 PM.

Andrew
#2225492 - 02/04/14 12:23 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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ES7 has triple sensor action. That would be a decisive factor for me.


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#2228275 - 02/09/14 08:54 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Yesterday I had a go on the es7 so now I just have to track down the Yamaha!!.

What can I say the difference in the keys between the casio and even the es100 was amazing. The keys were so much harder to press down ( in a good way). the speakers were a 100% better then the casio and the instrument just felt so much more better quality. Saying that it is double the price so I have to decide if it worth double the price!!! Sound quality wise i did not have a casio by the side of it to compare it too, and I do think the casio has a good quality piano sound. But the kawai does have an excellent piano sound. The only problem I had was dynamics = does any one know how many levels the kawai es7 has? I know when I had a cvp407 yamaha stated it had 4 Dynamic Levels. I don't know what the levels are on casio and Yamaha or Es7. Does anyone know what they are?

When I was playing it felt about 3 or maybe 4 but it could be my playing!!!

So now I need to track down the p255 and I should be bale to make my decision and maybe try a Roland as well.Then that should have all the bases covered.

So overall I really the Kawai it felt very well built the keys were very solid and the speakers good and the sound excellent. It was just the dynamics that worried me a bit.

#2228289 - 02/09/14 09:31 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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So long as the sound grows in presence and harmonic (overtone) content as you increase velocity, and that there is a development in tone colour & character as well as high frequencies and volume, then it shouldn't matter how many layers there are. One layer, with sensitive processing/ modelling would sound much better than 10 layers, inexpertly managed and blended.


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#2228363 - 02/09/14 12:20 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Yesterday I had a go on the es7 .... What can I say the difference in the keys between the casio and even the es100 was amazing.


One would hope that there was an amazing difference between an $800 DP and a $2000 DP. But it's instructive to see even the difference between brands at the same price, no? If you're looking at the $800 level don't forget the Roland F20.

If you're seriously looking at spending $2,000 you have a different group of pianos to compare to, and more consideration.

Last edited by Turnabout; 02/09/14 12:21 PM.
#2228402 - 02/09/14 01:19 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
The only problem I had was dynamics = does any one know how many levels the kawai es7 has? I know when I had a cvp407 yamaha stated it had 4 Dynamic Levels. I don't know what the levels are on casio and Yamaha or Es7. Does anyone know what they are?

When I was playing it felt about 3 or maybe 4 but it could be my playing!!!


Kawai doesn't reveal this information and their method for encoding/processing it makes it not show up very easily in tests like the DPBSD. Sometimes people guess but it's a shot in the dark.

Casio might be a different story. For some reason I had the impression that I knew how many it was but I can't find the source so I won't tell you what I think it is lest I lead you astray.

Last edited by gvfarns; 02/09/14 01:20 PM.
#2242089 - 03/06/14 09:16 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Hi,

Just a quick question on page 123 of the manual for the es7 it lists the sounds that are used in the style section is it possible to play those sounds on the keyboard?

Also what happens when you play a midi file on the keyboard if it does have the sound used in the midi file?

Any examples of midi playback on you tube? I can't find many demos showing the different styles on the keyboard of the different sounds?

Thnaks

#2242190 - 03/06/14 01:21 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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I don't know much about Kawais, neither ES7 nor others, but I'm pretty sure the piano uses it's own tones when playing MIDI files. Judging from my experience with this on my DP, which is a Casio, a MIDI file, when sent to the piano, includes messages about so called channels the tracks of the MIDI files are using. Usually the tracks are on channels 1-4 but can make use of up to 16 channels.

In my piano, the voices are on so called zones and the zones reside in channels 1-4. So if a MIDI is fed to the thing, and it's tracks are on channel 1, it plays them with the tone on zone 1.

You might have to experiment with some settings to get this right. I had to change my settings, to filter out MIDI messages like program and bank change, because the MIDI programs I was using always changed the tone to the horrible GM Piano 1.

Edit: I see from your previous posts you haven't purchased the ES7, so you'd probably be best off to ask a salesman about the piano's MIDI features, unless Kawai James or someone who owns the ES7 will answer this question.

Last edited by TheodorN; 03/06/14 01:29 PM.

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#2242341 - 03/06/14 07:46 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Just a quick question on page 123 of the manual for the es7 it lists the sounds that are used in the style section is it possible to play those sounds on the keyboard?


Not directly from the instrument's control panel, no. However it should be possible to select these sound via MIDI.

Originally Posted by musicman100
Also what happens when you play a midi file on the keyboard if it does have the sound used in the midi file?


The instrument used in the MIDI file will be remapped to a sound available on the ES7.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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#2242372 - 03/06/14 09:10 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: gvfarns]  
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
. . .
Casio might be a different story. For some reason I had the impression that I knew how many it was but I can't find the source so I won't tell you what I think it is lest I lead you astray.


Yes -- there's a Casio PX-350 review in the "DPBSD" thread.

There seem to be 4 "blended" dynamic levels. So the change of tone quality, with increasing MIDI velocity, is pretty smooth.

It's here:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1966202/Re:%20The%20DPBSD%20Project!.html#Post1966202

and the relevant section:

Quote
. . .
- This is a smoothly blended multi-velocity layer sample set (Casio reports 4 layers, one step visible @ v=80).

- Timbre change with velocity is nicely spread out with no audible timbre steps.


Note that the number of "layers" is _not_ the same as the number of "loudnesses" the piano can produce. I'm pretty sure the Casio keyboard will produce every MIDI velocity from (nearly) 1 to 128, and the sound generator will increase the volume appropriately. 4 "layers" were sampled, but they're blended together when the sound is generated.

We need to get Dewster to stop whatever he's doing to earn a living, and get back to the test bench!

. Charles


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#2242502 - 03/07/14 04:51 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by musicman100
Just a quick question on page 123 of the manual for the es7 it lists the sounds that are used in the style section is it possible to play those sounds on the keyboard?


Not directly from the instrument's control panel, no. However it should be possible to select these sound via MIDI.

Originally Posted by musicman100
Also what happens when you play a midi file on the keyboard if it does have the sound used in the midi file?


The instrument used in the MIDI file will be remapped to a sound available on the ES7.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Hi James ,

Thank you for your response.
Sorry just to clarify the sounds listed on page 122 and 123 list all the sounds the es7 can produce so in total it can produce 74 sounds?( plus the drum sounds listed on page 124- can you play them on the keyboard?)

Just out of interest why can't you access them all from the panel?

I have an old Yamaha psr70 my first keyboard in the 1980s and still works great. It also had sounds that was used in the styles and could only be selected by MIDI so I connected the midi out to the midi in of the Keyboard ( so connected to itself) and I could use the hidden sound on the keyboard!!
For some reason I get great satisfaction of doing something on an electronic device that is not might to do. Maybe I am just sad.

Last edited by musicman100; 03/07/14 04:52 AM.
#2243530 - 03/09/14 10:11 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Hi,

Another quick question would this pedal work with the es7

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fatar_vfp215m_pianodoppelpedal.htm

It has the right connector. Or this

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fatar_vfp2_10_stereo.htm

Here are the electric diagram of the pedals

http://www.synthax.de/media/files/studiologic/Fatar_sustain_pedal_foot_switch_user_guide_V1.pdf

Also looking at this stand

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Music...fRID=03HGE641BNVYBJC5AKQJ#productDetails

They are over half the price of the original kawai pedal and the Tiger is cheaper then an K and M stand.

Anyone has experience of these?

Thanks

#2243875 - 03/09/14 08:32 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Sorry just to clarify the sounds listed on page 122 and 123 list all the sounds the es7 can produce so in total it can produce 74 sounds?


Yes, although some of these sounds such as 'Guitar Cutting Noise' are more like single samples, and therefore not intended to be 'played' in the same way as other voices.

Originally Posted by musicman100
plus the drum sounds listed on page 124- can you play them on the keyboard?


Again, not directly from the panel, however it is possible to access these sounds via MIDI.

Originally Posted by musicman100
Just out of interest why can't you access them all from the panel?


That's a good question, however I'm afraid I do not know, however I expect the point about single samples mentioned above may be have something to do with this decision.

Originally Posted by musicman100
I have an old Yamaha psr70 my first keyboard in the 1980s and still works great. It also had sounds that was used in the styles and could only be selected by MIDI so I connected the midi out to the midi in of the Keyboard ( so connected to itself) and I could use the hidden sound on the keyboard!!


That's an interesting trick. wink I've never tried this myself, however in theory it should work (with 'Local Off' set to disable the internal sound connection and use MIDI only).

Originally Posted by musicman100
For some reason I get great satisfaction of doing something on an electronic device that is not might to do. Maybe I am just sad.


Nope, I think this is pretty cool too.
It's completely unrelated to MIDI, however back in the day when I owned an Amiga computer, I got great satisfaction out of 'ripping' the sound samples and music used in games and demos, then re-using them in my own (simple) music projects.


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#2243880 - 03/09/14 08:36 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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The cheaper stand will obviously work, although I cannot vouch for its quality compared to the K&M.

Regarding the pedals, I'm afraid I do not know. I would recommend using the Kawai pedal unit to ensure it works correctly with the ES7.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2244033 - 03/10/14 03:42 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Hi James,

thanks for the reply.

Again off topic do you Ski- its one of my passion snow and skiing. Just wondered if you have skied in Japan?

Thanks

Nigel

#2244039 - 03/10/14 04:01 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Hi Nigel, it's been several years, however I used to snowboard while living in Yamagata (northern Japan). Night skiing at one of the local (45 minutes away) slopes was fantastic! wink

James
x


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#2320865 - 08/27/14 10:31 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Any further insight on the ES7 as I am considering one? Do current owners of the ES7 enjoy their purchase? Any complaints?

#2321839 - 08/30/14 09:21 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: gbitw]  
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Any one not happy with their ES7 purchase?

#2321843 - 08/30/14 09:56 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: gbitw]  
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Originally Posted by gbitw
Any one not happy with their ES7 purchase?

Im not happy. Ive had mine for two years and I still stink! wink

Kidding aside. I know you are trying to make a decision soon. I am extremely confident you will have no regrets whatsoever with the ES7. I know it's not cheap but well worth every penny for what Kawai put into it. It cant be beat for the price if you compare specs to it's immediate competition.

Take a look at this review if you have not already. It's a fair accurate review from a credible source. It might help you with your decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2skoojX8MjE

source: http://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/1183/kawai-es7-digital-piano-reviewed/29376






KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2321845 - 08/30/14 10:10 AM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,563
fizikisto Online content
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fizikisto  Online Content
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,563
Hernando, MS
gbitw
I'm sure that there must be some people somewhere who have purchased an ES7 and had buyer's remorse. That's pretty much true of any product you can name. If reports on this forum are any indication, however, the vast majority of people who own an ES7 love it. You need to decide what you want your digital piano to do, and make sure that the ES7 can do everything that you need. If it ticks off all of your boxes, and you can afford it, I think it's an absolutely fantastic choice. Great sounds, Great Action, Great build quality.

Warm Regards


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
#2321869 - 08/30/14 12:03 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: Kawai James]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 51
AB99 Offline
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AB99  Offline
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 51
Unfortunately, I am going to have to sell my ES7 which is in fabulous condition ): Is there a classified section on this Board?

#2321896 - 08/30/14 02:08 PM Re: Some more help needed!! [Re: musicman100]  
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Garf Offline
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Garf  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by musicman100
Yes it looks like it only recognised inverted chords in Full fingered mode.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but do you mean if the ES7 is in Normal ACC mode, and I play a GCE with my left hand, it'll play a G chord with an additional CE? That would be very weird.

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