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Sounds like you are having a bunch of people who either are new year's resolution flakes as you say  or else teacher shopping and choose someone else. Whenever I have a no-show I always discuss it with the student, either at the next lesson or earlier. Repeat no-shows I start the conversation with "What can we do to help you remember to come to lessons?" Solutions have ranged from reminder phone calls to an oven timer, and always have been short-term, the families feel too embarrassed and figure out a way to remember on their own  So far I haven't had anyone no-show enough times that I felt I had to drop them, but that's an option. I think that anytime we feel irritated by a student's actions it is a sign that we need to take some action to address it. Not acting is a great way to ensure further irritation.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on:
Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée
William Grant Still - Three Visions
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This topic has come up many times in the past -- but most often from the other side of the fence, ie, I'm an adult student and I cannot find any piano teacher who will take me as a student.
While Peter and a few others (I remember one teacher from AZ I believe it was) who had a booming studio full of adults, most of us have experienced exactly what Rebecca is experiencing, in spades. For every serious, dependable adult student I've had over the years, I've had a half dozen who fit the profile she describes. It's frustrating, very deflating and most teachers just end up saying "The he|_|_ with it."
Over the years, my wife & I've taken many adult classes at the local community college or at the Y in town and the profile is essentially the same. Twenty students enroll. By week three, we're down to 10 - 12 students. By the end of the term, perhaps a half dozen. For what ever reason, adult students by and large run into problems with seeing their commitments through. If they've paid, the instructor may feel frustrated, put out, insulted, or what ever, but at least, they're not stiffed for price of the prep time or facility charge.
Rebecca, those who have advised you to tighten up your policy and to collect tuition up front have offered you very sage advice. Your personality and willingness to tolerate the vicissitudes of the adult students will determine whether you continue to accept them or not.
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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I don't know how it is in Australia, but certainly in America there are a lot of adults that are really just kids in larger bodies. As a professional (or if you'd like to be considered one by the masses), you need to set very clear and unambiguous rules/policies and make certain each client, or student, understands them before agreeing to provide a service. I also wouldn't think badly of you as a professional if I wanted your service, but before you provided it, you made me sign a contract of sorts agreeing to an equal part of the transaction.
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This topic has come up many times in the past -- but most often from the other side of the fence, ie, I'm an adult student and I cannot find any piano teacher who will take me as a student.
While Peter and a few others (I remember one teacher from AZ I believe it was) who had a booming studio full of adults, most of us have experienced exactly what Rebecca is experiencing, in spades. For every serious, dependable adult student I've had over the years, I've had a half dozen who fit the profile she describes. It's frustrating, very deflating and most teachers just end up saying "The he|_|_ with it."
I don't know how other people have a studio full of committed adults. I've just never had that experience I can't tell you how often I have adults who were SO gung ho, so excited, only to see them disappear in six months. But it doesn't start at 30 or 40 or 50. I remember taking a language course at the local university here - and for most the people who started the class this was a REQUIREMENT for them to get degrees - 1/3 of the class was gone before "drop and add". Then in the second semester maybe 1/3 were left.
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Gary, you're not saying that studying piano is "too much like work" are you?
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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This topic has come up many times in the past -- but most often from the other side of the fence, i.e., I'm an adult student and I cannot find any piano teacher who will take me as a student. Unfortunately, the behaviour of flaky students has repercussions on future students seeking lessons. Though in regards to the ones who can't find a teacher, usually among those writing in, it's been the student who wants to work seriously. Hobbyists seeking "fun" have no problem finding teachers. The market is geared to that (to the detriment of those actually setting out to learn). Nobody has supported my suggestion of INFORMING prospective students of expectations. Rebecca has a Web-Site. A page that gives a well-worded list of expectations may at least cut down on the behaviour. In the least, she can refer callers to that page.
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Addendum: I freelance and work with quite a few "people off the street". They often don't know the simplest thing you would expect them to know.** You have to spell things out each and every time to each person who contacts you (we call it "client education"). Don't take anything for granted.
Someone who has never taken lessons before, won't know what is involved. Also People don't think! They go on impulse.
There is the added matter that someone who is employed cannot picture the self-employed person such as private teachers. You being paid for your time is the most obvious thing they should understand (but do they?). They don't know that organizing your time when you're not scheduled by an employer is a challenge; sitting around for 30 - 60 min. wondering when and if your student is gong to show up is unpleasant, even if you do get paid. We are used to automated services being at our beck and call. But teachers aren't hologram doctors (Deep Space Nine).
Bottom line though - if you don't tell your customers what you expect/need of them, they are more likely to do dumb things.
** I just took a probable loss because I forgot that. I did work for a client who "hired someone else" and didn't know she should tell me.
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Nobody has supported my suggestion of INFORMING prospective students of expectations.
When you do, they choose another teacher who gives no expectations but cheaper rates. They choose the teacher who appears to be more cost-effective. You approach this whole subject as a serious student yourself. You are concerned with people like you being screwed by people who are less disciplined and less serious, who wear down good teachers with unrealistic expectations combined with a lack of follow-through and magical thinking. But in the end it "is what it is", and you, as a serious and hard-working adult, have to contend with the very negative view we have of the average adult student who has EARNED that view.
Rebecca has a Web-Site. A page that gives a well-worded list of expectations may at least cut down on the behaviour. In the least, she can refer callers to that page.
I disagree, because people have an amazing ability to see/hear/read what they want to, and they will always find some way of seeing/hearing/reading what they think is good for them while missing everything else. Adults are like kids or "more so". When they have unrealistic expectations, nothing is going to change that. When they engage in magical thinking and decide that it is realistic to expect amazing improvements in almost zero time, with almost zero practice, there is nothing the teacher can do except ride it out until they quit. But when you get the rare adult who is willing to go to almost any length to improve, to do the hard work, then you will have someone who works harder than any kid, and who is absolutely centered about improving. There is nothing you can do about no shows except to hold your ground and make sure you are PAID for them.
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It's a drop in a bucket, Gary, and a hot bucket at that, where your drop will sizzle away before your eyes. But a drop is better than nothing. If you inform people, chances are you will be ignored. But if you don't inform them, and assume they'll know the obvious - they don't. And the fact is that there are things that people who are not in the field simply won't know.
Examples:
- Not having regular lessons, esp. in the beginning, will cause you to acquire poor habits that become entrenched. You will then become frustrated, don't know the cause, and eventually quit. You may think it's because you are receiving poor teaching.
- "Cramming" doesn't work, because of the way learning works. Cramming a day before the next lesson is especially counterproductive.
- not showing up, even if you pay, is unpleasant for the teacher
- When you don't follow instructions, don't practice regularly, you are not only undermining your own progress. You are also destroying the teacher's work, and that is demoralizing to teachers. Imagine that you are building a model ship, and somebody comes in and dismantles it while you sleep, and creates weird arrangements of the parts that you have to fix again.
Ok, you probably don't want to inform people about these things. But the OBVIOUS NEEDS TO BE TOLD. If a person doesn't know that:
- he has to show up for a booked lesson
- must show up for a month of lessons once he's committed
- must pay for those lessons
- must have an instrument to practice on
- is engaging himself to practice regularly
He may fail on any or all of these things by reason of not knowing. I know it's incredibly stupid - but people are stupid. So you prevent what you can. If he fails because he ignored your advice, at least you have caught those who fail because they don't think or don't know.
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....There is nothing you can do about no shows except to hold your ground and make sure you are PAID for them.
If I can't assure that someone else will respect me, at least I can assure that I will respect myself. That's a key reason for stating and enforcing a policy and for requiring pre-payment.
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/full/15854.png) "Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love." -- Laura Nyro
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Nobody has supported my suggestion of INFORMING prospective students of expectations. Rebecca has a Web-Site. A page that gives a well-worded list of expectations may at least cut down on the behaviour. In the least, she can refer callers to that page.
Informing students, upfront, of what they can expect from piano lessons is a very good idea.
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Nobody has supported my suggestion of INFORMING prospective students of expectations.
When you do, they choose another teacher who gives no expectations but cheaper rates. They choose the teacher who appears to be more cost-effective. I am talking about telling students that they must have an instrument before starting lessons, and perhaps must prepay, come regularly to lessons. If a student isn't willing to do that, do you even want them to make an appointment for even a trial lesson (whether paid or not)? I am talking about telling a student, as opposed to NOT telling them, and having them guess. Perhaps you thought I meant something else with "expectations".
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It's a drop in a bucket, Gary, and a hot bucket at that, where your drop will sizzle away before your eyes. But a drop is better than nothing. If you inform people, chances are you will be ignored. But if you don't inform them, and assume they'll know the obvious - they don't. And the fact is that there are things that people who are not in the field simply won't know.
Examples:
- Not having regular lessons, esp. in the beginning, will cause you to acquire poor habits that become entrenched. You will then become frustrated, don't know the cause, and eventually quit. You may think it's because you are receiving poor teaching.
- "Cramming" doesn't work, because of the way learning works. Cramming a day before the next lesson is especially counterproductive.
- not showing up, even if you pay, is unpleasant for the teacher
- When you don't follow instructions, don't practice regularly, you are not only undermining your own progress. You are also destroying the teacher's work, and that is demoralizing to teachers. Imagine that you are building a model ship, and somebody comes in and dismantles it while you sleep, and creates weird arrangements of the parts that you have to fix again.
Ok, you probably don't want to inform people about these things. But the OBVIOUS NEEDS TO BE TOLD. If a person doesn't know that:
- he has to show up for a booked lesson
- must show up for a month of lessons once he's committed
- must pay for those lessons
- must have an instrument to practice on
- is engaging himself to practice regularly
He may fail on any or all of these things by reason of not knowing. I know it's incredibly stupid - but people are stupid. So you prevent what you can. If he fails because he ignored your advice, at least you have caught those who fail because they don't think or don't know. Keystring is so right! As an adult student I can assure you that I had no idea about the things mentioned when meeting my first teacher. I had no background in music, was not taught solfege or any theory in school. It was first after starting lessons that I started to learn what music is all about, how it works, how practicing works, and what studying music entails. I promise I am not stupid, since I have an excellent education and a nice job I do well. Nevertheless, I still had no experience whatsoever of the music field.
Nothing is accomplished without enthusiasm. - Ralph Waldo Emerson ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/1medal.jpg)
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I kind of jumped the gun with the things I mentioned, Basia, but yes, these are things that we need to know in order to study effectively with a teacher. The issues in this thread are a lot more basic:
- show up for your first lesson, and other lessons after that
- pay for them
And if prepayment will "help" people to listen, then I guess that's how it has to be. When my son took lessons, we always paid the first of the month, and this was prepayment. The same policy applied to adults.
Last edited by keystring; 01/26/14 09:16 AM.
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Nobody has supported my suggestion of INFORMING prospective students of expectations. Rebecca has a Web-Site. A page that gives a well-worded list of expectations may at least cut down on the behaviour. In the least, she can refer callers to that page.
Informing students, upfront, of what they can expect from piano lessons is a very good idea. Thank you.
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When they have unrealistic expectations, nothing is going to change that. When they engage in magical thinking and decide that it is realistic to expect amazing improvements in almost zero time, with almost zero practice, there is nothing the teacher can do except ride it out until they quit.
I have to agree with Gary here. I distinctly remember several adult students who were like this. One in particular I had told him from the outset that what he wanted to be able to do would take years, but that if he followed my guidance he'd get there the quickest way possible. Instead, he decided he was gojng to do things his own way, not practicing and not listening to my advic, yet expecting to be able to play at a high level. Toward the end of his trial period (with some missed lessons in there I think, for which I was prepaid), he was lamenting how hard piano was and that he was thinking it was going to take him longer than he thought, so he decided to give up. This is more common than a more serious student who is humble enough and not resistant to learning. Despite my explaining how long it takes and how we slowly build from the ground up, despite me trying to find music within their grasp that they enjoy, most adults are resistant to actually learning. It may seem like there's a lot of them out there who want to learn because of how many are on the ABF, but how many of those are self-teaching? And it is a distorted number since far more aren't the kind to go on a forum, may think if they are talented enough piano should just happen, etc.
private piano/voice teacher FT ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/2529.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/9342.png)
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When they have unrealistic expectations, nothing is going to change that. When they engage in magical thinking and decide that it is realistic to expect amazing improvements in almost zero time, with almost zero practice, there is nothing the teacher can do except ride it out until they quit.
I have to agree with Gary here. I distinctly remember several adult students who were like this. One in particular I had told him from the outset that what he wanted to be able to do would take years, .... If it's in response to what I wrote, the "expectations" I was talking about was as follows. The teacher expects: - the student to come to lessons - pay for those lessons - have an instrument because those were the issues in the opening post. Even those students who came to the initial interview, failed to come to other lessons consistently, and I imagine also didn't prepay. In regards to higher expectations in terms of how to work on music, work with the teacher, practice, etc., I agree with both of you. I apologize for not having been clear with what I meant by "expectations".
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When they have unrealistic expectations, nothing is going to change that. When they engage in magical thinking and decide that it is realistic to expect amazing improvements in almost zero time, with almost zero practice, there is nothing the teacher can do except ride it out until they quit.
I have to agree with Gary here. I distinctly remember several adult students who were like this. One in particular I had told him from the outset that what he wanted to be able to do would take years, .... If it's in response to what I wrote, the "expectations" I was talking about was as follows. The teacher expects: - the student to come to lessons - pay for those lessons - have an instrument because those were the issues in the opening post. Even those students who came to the initial interview, failed to come to other lessons consistently, and I imagine also didn't prepay. In regards to higher expectations in terms of how to work on music, work with the teacher, practice, etc., I agree with both of you. I apologize for not having been clear with what I meant by "expectations". Thanks for bringing back OT :-). I agree that a well-worded policy that is explained prior to beginning lessons and reiterated when the student fails to show up are important. It's not the easiest thing to do, but if you don't be clear on this then you can expect abuses of your policy to occur.
private piano/voice teacher FT
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I am still wondering who are these people who don't show up? Do they no show for other appointments like the doctor or dentist or hairstylist or mechanic? Do they keep a work schedule? Do they attend any kind of meeting or event on schedule? Do they go to the movies or the theater or to concerts?
Showing up at appointments or rescheduling appropriately is a pretty basic life skill.
Not understanding the level of commitment it takes to learn to play a musical instrument is a lack of specific knowledge, but an inability to keep a schedule is what my grandparents generation would have called a "lack of character."
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Holy moly, I can't imagine. My piano lesson is the highlight of my week. I spend all day looking forward to it. Unsurprisingly, every lesson starts with a big hug. Fortunately, my piano teacher is also the effusive type. You'd think we'd not have seen each other for years. I have been known to skip the occasional doctor's appointment, but usually not without a phone call ahead of time.
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