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Classical music, digitals and Russia #2218280
01/21/14 04:26 PM
01/21/14 04:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
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Permivories Offline OP
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This is my first post here, so hi everyone !

First, some background :
I've played classical piano for around ten years. I especially enjoy Brahms and most composers from the early XXth, from Ravel to Scriabin or Rachmaninov.
I recently moved to the city of Perm, Russia, and am looking for a piano to practice on when I'm at home ; my budget is <2000e, and I figured digitals would be my best bet (I've tried looking for a decent upright, but couldn't find one in my budget with the moving and regulating needed).

I've been lurking for a while in the forum, and from what I gather, the Kawai Mp10 and the Yahama CP4 Stage have the "best" piano-like touch around. Sadly they don't seem to be avalaible in my city - and I have no clue how much it would cost to import. There is a P155 avalaible, though a little expensive - how does the keyboard fare against the CP4 and Kawai ?

So my questions to you all would be :
1 - Is anyone there here from Russia (or even Perm) that could give me some shopping tips ?
2 - Is the P155 a decent choice ? Should I wait for the P255 to arrive here ? (I have a pretty decent computer so the usb to computer seems good for a sound quality perspective, I'm open to getting software.)
3 - How about importing ?

Any other advices / tips are welcome, I'm feeling really lonely without a piano. ;-)

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Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218283
01/21/14 04:35 PM
01/21/14 04:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
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The P155 has the same GH action as the CP40. The CP4 action another step up to NW+GH, but they are both good. I think the P255 also has GH.

Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: David Farley] #2218291
01/21/14 04:51 PM
01/21/14 04:51 PM
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Permivories Offline OP
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Is the action on the P105 the same as the 155's ? It is much cheaper here.
EDIT : Found answer here :
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Forum/6/topic/004240/Number/0/site_id/1

But what is the difference between GH and GHS?

Last edited by Permivories; 01/21/14 04:55 PM.
Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218298
01/21/14 05:01 PM
01/21/14 05:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
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Chicago, Illinois

Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218414
01/21/14 07:38 PM
01/21/14 07:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,505
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Permivories, I'm afraid I do not know about Kawai availability in your city, however the following information regarding distributors in Russia can be found at:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/world/index.html

CLASSIKA PETERSBURG
Ulitsa Dekabristov 32, St. Petersburg, Russia, 190000
Tel. : +7-812-2421050
Url. : http://www.klassikashop.ru

GRAND MYSTERY CO., LTD.
Leningradskiy prospect 37/6, trade center 'AviaCity', office 2049, Moscow, Russia 125167
Tel. : +7-495-9889961
Mail : sales@grandm.ru
Url. : http://grandm.ru

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218571
01/22/14 01:57 AM
01/22/14 01:57 AM
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Permivories Offline OP
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Permivories  Offline OP
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Thank you James, sadly those are pretty far...
How easy are digital pianos to transport by plane ?

Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218573
01/22/14 02:13 AM
01/22/14 02:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,505
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
It may be possible to fly to a large city such as Moscow, play-test some instruments, and fly home with a digital piano in cargo. However, I expect you will need to pay some form of additional shipping expenses for the large, heavy carton box that they are packed in.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218574
01/22/14 02:21 AM
01/22/14 02:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Russian Federation
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Nagual Offline
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Russian Federation
Permivories,
Hello!
See private message.

Last edited by Nagual; 01/22/14 02:27 AM.

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Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218611
01/22/14 07:34 AM
01/22/14 07:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 328
Italy
Qbert Offline
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Italy
Originally Posted by Permivories
I've been lurking for a while in the forum, and from what I gather, the Kawai Mp10 and the Yahama CP4 Stage have the "best" piano-like touch around.


Odd conclusion... Kawai flagship GF, but RM3II too, are significantly better in my opinion.

Last edited by Qbert; 01/22/14 07:35 AM.

GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218632
01/22/14 09:19 AM
01/22/14 09:19 AM
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Permivories Offline OP
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I might be wrong, I must admit I'm quite confused with all the serials... RM3II is an action type right ? The one after the action in the MP10 if I understand. I'm also looking at the VPC1, but availability might be a concern.
And what about the Casio Privia PX-350 ? The action is praised a lot, and it is quite cheap.

Last edited by Permivories; 01/22/14 09:28 AM.
Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218695
01/22/14 12:00 PM
01/22/14 12:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,540
US
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gvfarns Offline
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US
Originally Posted by Permivories
I might be wrong, I must admit I'm quite confused with all the serials... RM3II is an action type right ? The one after the action in the MP10 if I understand. I'm also looking at the VPC1, but availability might be a concern.


The MP10 uses the RM3 action. RM3II is the second generation of it (with triple sensor technology). GF has a similar design but the keys are longer, similar to those of a small grand.

Last edited by gvfarns; 01/22/14 12:00 PM.
Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218779
01/22/14 02:04 PM
01/22/14 02:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,045
Northern VA, U.S.
ClsscLib Offline

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Originally Posted by Permivories
I might be wrong, I must admit I'm quite confused with all the serials... RM3II is an action type right ? The one after the action in the MP10 if I understand. I'm also looking at the VPC1, but availability might be a concern.
And what about the Casio Privia PX-350 ? The action is praised a lot, and it is quite cheap.


I have the PX-350, and the action is very good indeed at that price point, though not as good as the considerably more expensive Roland RD-700NX.

You appear to be a serious classical pianist. Are you able to try a Casio 350 or 150 (same action) before you would have to commit to purchasing it?


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Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218842
01/22/14 03:37 PM
01/22/14 03:37 PM
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Permivories Offline OP
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From what I've seen, I might be able to try a 350 or PX5S (which i understand is pretty much the same with some added functions ? I'd be grateful for any infos). I'll probably go friday or saturday, and I'm hoping they have both the Casio (350 or 5S), the yamaha 155 (though I used to have a P60 back in the old days, and I think the action was the same ? decent but not great) and maybe some CPL 440 as they have the same GH3 action one can find on the CP4. Pretty sure they don't have other brands, like Kawai which I'd love to try.

I don't know if serious is the word, but I usually work 3-4 hours a day at the instrument ; there are plenty of old, damaged accoustic pianos here on which I can play, but sadly none I can really work on. The low registers are muted, the touch is uneven, and I'm pretty sure some of them dont even have standard sized keys because octaves and arppeggis felt weird / wrong.
My main concern is obviously the ability to control voices volume and touch (the feedback for the hammer flight start is definitly a big plus, I have heard some digitals have it. It gives that special feel to the softer and lighter touches). Pretty much have to try it... Like you would a real piano anyways. I also want the ability to half pedal (more is a plus), but they all seem to do it - I think.
Sturdiness is also a factor, because well... I'm gonna play it a lot. I know my old Yamaha P60 was built like a rock.

Last edited by Permivories; 01/22/14 03:40 PM.
Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2218895
01/22/14 04:36 PM
01/22/14 04:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,045
Northern VA, U.S.
ClsscLib Offline

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Northern VA, U.S.
3-4 hours a day -- and the repertoire you have played -- sounds plenty serious to me!

In the end, we can say whatever we want; the only thing that matters is that YOU be satisfied with the action and sound on the instrument that you will be playing.

That's why I urge you to play the PX-350 and any other possibilities you can actually try. That will give you the only answer that truly means anything to you.

Good luck!


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"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins
Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2227284
02/07/14 03:11 AM
02/07/14 03:11 AM
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Permivories Offline OP
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Just a quick update for those interested.

I got the Casio PX350, as it was the best option avalaible locally (no contests really).
Been playing a lot for a week or so, here's what I'm thinking.
- the touch is decent, a lot of control but definitly way too soft compared to a real piano. I have no problem making distinct voices.
- the keys feel... weird. I got used to it pretty quick, and now it doesn't bother me at all.
- I bought the 3-pedals, the half pedalling is ok I guess.
- the sound is ok'ish, though I need to get headphone as you don't get "oompf" from the sound, which sounds somewhat muted. The main fault would be quite a distinct change in volume during the transition from tenor to alto ranges. Anyways, I need headphones.

Overall I'm pretty satisfied (especially given it was quite cheap), been working myself back up to shape ; I'm not sure yet how much of a problem the soft action will prove to be.
Thank you all for the feedback !

Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2227294
02/07/14 03:36 AM
02/07/14 03:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,425
Sweden
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Congratulations on your new piano. I don't know what you mean by the sound being muted and you don't get "oompf". If you feel the sound is muddy or dark, maybe you should have gotten the PX-5S, which has more possibilities to tweak the sound to your liking. I would have recommended it, but I missed this thread, till now. The PX-5S doesn't support half pedalling and has no builtin speakers, so if you value those options, you're better off with the PX-350.

However, you can choose brighter piano voices on the PX-350, I think. I understand the builtin speakers of the piano aren't all that good. It probably sounds better through external more powerful speakers.


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Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2227303
02/07/14 04:41 AM
02/07/14 04:41 AM
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JohnSprung Offline
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Originally Posted by Permivories
- the touch is decent, a lot of control but definitly way too soft compared to a real piano.


One thing that has worked for me on the Yamaha CP33 is to turn the headphone volume down a little, and play harder to get the same sound. The keys are still light, but you're using a different part of the keyboard's touch/velocity sensitivity range. It's easy to give that a try.



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Re: Classical music, digitals and Russia [Re: Permivories] #2227377
02/07/14 11:27 AM
02/07/14 11:27 AM
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Permivories Offline OP
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@JohnSprung Funny you say that, I found myself doing the same thing :-)

@TheodorN The piano sound is fine, quality wise, but you really don't get the feel you're playing on a real piano, especially in the bass range ; I never feel like I'm playing 'fortissimo'. I think it's mostly the built-in speakers being too weak though, so I'm looking forward to getting a headset. Otherwise I really have fun working on it, definitly worth the money. I got the stand too, a little pricy but nice looking.


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