2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
51 members (AaronSF, accordeur, anotherscott, Billyinsocal, bwv872, Chouca, 8ude, 14 invisible), 563 guests, and 463 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
Sam S #2217521 01/20/14 08:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
-Frycek Offline OP
5000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921

Quote
If you want to share your music, then you only hurt yourself by not participating. There is no more supportive and accepting online recital than the ABF quarterly recital.
Sam


I know that, Sam. I'm not after hurting anyone. There's not a nicer bunch anywhere than here. That's no excuse for me to impose my half baked attempts at musicianship on your very good collective natures. I just felt I owed ya'll an explanation for my non--participation after the totally unnecessary fuss I just caused with this thread. I'm very sorry I brought it up.


Slow down and do it right.
[Linked Image]
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
-Frycek #2217564 01/20/14 10:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 787
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by -Frycek
And now, I think I've made my decision not to post in either place. I posted the 28/24 in defiance of my best friend (a very well trained pianist) who thought it too flashy for ABF and not well played enough to be posted at all. I felt a certain heady achievement at the time but nothing but misgivings since. Everyone who commented on my piece was kindness itself but I hesitate to strain the general good nature a second time. Thanks to you all and good luck.

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, and hope you will reconsider in the future. In the meantime, I think that many of us in ABF will miss hearing you play.


Deborah
Charles Walter 1500
Happiness is a shiny red piano.
[Linked Image]
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
-Frycek #2217566 01/20/14 10:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,716
J
Gold Level
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Level
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,716
Originally Posted by -Frycek
I know that, Sam. I'm not after hurting anyone. There's not a nicer bunch anywhere than here. That's no excuse for me to impose my half baked attempts at musicianship on your very good collective natures. I just felt I owed ya'll an explanation for my non--participation after the totally unnecessary fuss I just caused with this thread. I'm very sorry I brought it up.


Well, if *you* think your attempts are half-baked I guess there's nothing we can do about it. I think it's not fair if your assumption is that *we* think they're half-baked and are therefore somehow being imposed on. Or, that we think they're half-baked and are covering up our opinions. Or something. I think our opinions are more honest than that.

I think if people say *brava* they mean it. It is not likely they think you're a pro when they say it. But whatever it is they say they have found in your music, they've found it. If it bothers *you* that you're music isn't to what *you* think is a public standard I understand if you don't share it. I respect your right to do or not do that. We all have our own internal limits.

But it's really not fair to assume we're "imposed" on. That's for us to decide, eh? And if we say "brava" or whatever we say about your music, that opinion is to be respected, too, as an honest opinion.

So don't post or do post depending on what it does for *you*. And at least I'll understand that.

But whether or not it's *imposing* if you do share is up to us to decide - it's not your provenance laugh

And if people are even more positive and say they miss your music, you have to respect that, too. They're telling the truth. That doesn't mean you have to share it. It just means that your reasons for not doing so have to do with your own feelings about your music. Not the demonstrated responses to your music from here. It may well be, and I suspect it is, that people aren't just being nice, but that they actually find your music enjoyable. Maybe not for the reasons you wish it were enjoyable, but for very honest reasons, and as music.

So there's no imposing going on. If someone doesn't want to listen to your music they can always skip it.

Just my view, of course - I'm on an irrascible kick over the last couple of days.

Cathy


Cathy
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Perhaps "more music" is always the answer, no matter what the question might be! - Qwerty53
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
-Frycek #2217582 01/20/14 11:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,058
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,058
@Andy - Cinnamonbear,

Another great post. I love your reference to your "swiss cheese" education because I completely identify with it. (Today was the second time I had to look up fioritura and my knowledge of theory is pathetic.)

I really want to emphasize how much there is to learn in PC. When I first joined PW I knew nothing but note reading. Now I know a little more and I attribute most of it to the folks at PC. The majority are terrific people, polite, knowledgeable and nice. You just have to ignore the jerks. So ABF guys and gals, please come on over to PC. A few more nice folks would be a terrific addition. Yes, as Andy said, there are bar fights but it's easy to duck the flying chairs by choosing what topics you participate in and whom you play with.


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
-Frycek #2217584 01/20/14 11:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,350
F

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013
2000 Post Club Member
Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013
2000 Post Club Member
F
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,350
Originally Posted by -Frycek
And now, I think I've made my decision not to post in either place. I posted the 28/24 in defiance of my best friend (a very well trained pianist) who thought it too flashy for ABF and not well played enough to be posted at all. I felt a certain heady achievement at the time but nothing but misgivings since. Everyone who commented on my piece was kindness itself but I hesitate to strain the general good nature a second time. Thanks to you all and good luck.


Hi Frycek, I hope you post your work here or in PC when you are ready. You are a fine player. I also think this thread is a good one. It gave chance to discuss about PC and reaffirm what defies ABF and its unique need. Good to read everyone's comments. Thank you for your insight. I think and hope we can get to hear your music again.

Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
gooddog #2217604 01/20/14 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,643

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012
2000 Post Club Member
Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,643

Thanks Deborah! It's always good to hear from you as well. I can also relate to the "Swiss cheese" education mentioned earlier. Frankly this has been a very good discussion. I've gained a lot more understanding of what is useful about both forums.



Carl

Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
-Frycek #2217623 01/20/14 12:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 787
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 787
Cathy, thanks for pointing out the difference between not playing for others because the *we* feel the work is inadequate and not playing because we assume that *others* will find it inadequate. That's a very good point for all of us in ABF to keep in mind. No matter how far short of our goals we may fall, others can still find beauty and skill and courage in the attempt, and we shouldn't blame them if we choose not to put ourselves forward.

Andy, I appreciate the pro-lurking advice. smile Thanks in large part to this dicussion, I have been hanging out in the PC shadows rather often lately. It's a bit like sitting at the kid's table but eavesdropping on the adult conversations, lol.


Deborah
Charles Walter 1500
Happiness is a shiny red piano.
[Linked Image]
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
piano_deb #2217636 01/20/14 12:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,426
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by piano_deb
[...] Andy, I appreciate the pro-lurking advice. smile Thanks in large part to this dicussion, I have been hanging out in the PC shadows rather often lately. It's a bit like sitting at the kid's table but eavesdropping on the adult conversations, lol.


LOL!! And isn't it interesting when, as a "kid," you begin to notice that your own behavior and online demeanor is more mature than the "grown-ups?" laugh I think you are ready for the big table. wink A lot can be learned by asking one "simple" question! grin


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
-Frycek #2217792 01/20/14 06:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,310
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,310
Originally Posted by -Frycek
Maybe I'm overreacting (a specialty of mine!) but I fear this may result in graded recitals. I feel that most of us here might prefer that particular can of worms remain closed.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...ion_-_a_different_type_.html#Post2212277


I wouldn't want graded recitals either but fortunately it's not likely to become a trend. In that thread it seems like most people are not interested in that.

I've always been involved at the PC forum but I think it's just how I stumbled onto Piano World many years ago. Even now I would call myself an amateur of intermediate level but I do most of my posting over there. I'm trying to read more threads over here too but just haven't had the time. I might try to join in the next quarterly (or the one after that).

Reading this thread reminded me that I did participate in one of the recitals here in the past. I had to do a search to find out that it was Recital #4 in 2006. It's too bad the files aren't available because I wanted to hear myself from 7 years ago.

Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
gooddog #2217810 01/20/14 06:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,589
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,589
"Yes, as Andy said, there are bar fights but it's easy to duck the flying chairs by choosing what topics you participate in and whom you play with."

It`d be fun to throw a few . . .and THEN duck! grin


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
Cinnamonbear #2217880 01/20/14 09:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
2) Comments made in Member Recordings (or in original recordings posted on the main board (an etiquette no-no, apparently, although generally gracefully welcomed, especially by the occasional newbie who doesn't know about Member Recordings) tend to elicit a wide range of responses, thus:

2a) Some responses tend to judge the performance against some kind of an ideal, no matter how new or advanced the performer seems to be. Perfection, observation of tradition, evidence of musical understanding, and good taste are the standards. Pretty high standards. Often, these responses include a YouTube link to a virtuoso performance or two or three. Nothing like rubbing it in! LOL!

2b) Some responses tend to acknowledge a sliding scale of development by listening carefully to what can be heard of the performer's technique. Thoughtful help often follows, with a catalog of strengths and suggestions for things to address and ways to address them. Sometimes that help includes a YouTube link to a virtuoso performance. LOL! But context and presentation of the critique makes a tremendous difference, and some people can share this kind of thing without making it seem like they are rubbing your nose in anything. crazy

2c) Some responses tend to serve to bolster the ego of the critic, showcasing their knowledge about a certain subject or piece. That is not to say that there aren't some very knowledgeable people who share very freely some very fine points, and share well-developed reasons for those points, too. Those kinds of posts are wonderful when they happen. The "look how much I know" posts are different, though. You know them when you see them.

2d) Some responses are soapboxes for the critic to espouse some kind of artistic philosophy.

2e) Sometimes, a bar fight from another thread on the main board will spill into a recording thread.

Some threads are a mix of all of these, especially ones with the word "Chopin" in the title. wink Plus, there is always drive-by inanity. (Done my share of that, too! wink blush )

From the point of view of receiving criticism, I get the sense from reading in Pianist Corner (and a very rich PM correspondence with several Piano World online friends) that at some point, or at some level, learning to give and receive specific criticism is a very important part of the musical endeavor. And when you get to the point of public performance, receiving criticism simply comes with the territory. And always, you can take it or leave it! cool

This is genius. You are very astute Cinnamonbear. Should be a sticky post in Member Recordings smile


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
-Frycek #2218391 01/21/14 06:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,948
Z
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,948
Whatever the purpose of the recital is, whether to the originators and administrators or to the other participants and listeners, there is no indication from any recent comment that any contribution has been unwelcome, unnecessary, too professional, too poor or just shouldn't be included. If the first few bars or seconds do not interest the listener enough to hear the whole there's plenty more on offer for them to move onto without wasting much time. It puts no-one out to have it included.

There's plenty of room for any and all submissions, there's no entry requirement and, to my knowledge, no exclusions.
Quote
The primary purpose of the recitals is to allow AB forum members to provide a snapshot of where they are in their piano journey at that particular point in time.
ABF Forum members, nothing more and nothing less. If anyone wants to hear a professional recording they have YouTube as well as their own collections. What I want to hear from these recitals is where I stand against my peers, fellow amateurs, however long they've been playing or however far they've progressed. I want to see how far I've come, how much of my old self I can recognise from the other performances and most important of all how much can be achieved by an amateur like myself.

The two things I treasure the most from these recitals are 1) the motivation to rekindle pieces that are played better than me by pianists with less experience than me and 2) the focus on my current pieces knowing they will be heard by others. It challenges me to do better. Nothing else come close for drive and attention to detail.

If I want to hear Argerich or Pogorelich I can load up my mp3 player, pop in a CD or visit YouTube. It's great to be able to hear a virtuoso performance. But I could never play like that. Would I enjoy playing those pieces if I couldn't match them?

Originally Posted by -Frycek
I just felt I owed ya'll an explanation for my non--participation...
I've listened to your Prelude 24, -Frycek, more times in the last two months than I have Martha Argerich or Howard Shelley. Not only can I listen to it and enjoy recognising it, I can be inspired by it to attempt it myself. Martha can't inspire me like that because I could never reach that level.

However much worth you put on your own contribution I value it, I respect it and I thank you for it.

I would also value entries from other 'beyond beginners' that regularly participate in the ABF forum and that contribute to the themed recitals.



Richard
Re: Possibly Disturbing Ecital Trend Needs Discussion
zrtf90 #2218709 01/22/14 11:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
-Frycek Offline OP
5000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
Originally Posted by zrtf90


Originally Posted by -Frycek
I just felt I owed ya'll an explanation for my non--participation...
I've listened to your Prelude 24, -Frycek, more times in the last two months than I have Martha Argerich or Howard Shelley. Not only can I listen to it and enjoy recognising it, I can be inspired by it to attempt it myself. Martha can't inspire me like that because I could never reach that level.

However much worth you put on your own contribution I value it, I respect it and I thank you for it.

I would also value entries from other 'beyond beginners' that regularly participate in the ABF forum and that contribute to the themed recitals.



Richard, that's quite the nicest thing anyone has ever said about my playing. Thank you. I feel like having it engraved on a plaque or something. smile


Slow down and do it right.
[Linked Image]
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha silent piano mechanism not engaging
by samoyammie - 11/29/20 05:29 PM
Pedal in Scarlatti?
by ASR - 11/29/20 05:22 PM
Yamaha CLP-735 as a first piano
by ul7 - 11/29/20 04:49 PM
Schimmel K219 versus Seiler SE-208
by chipsneeze - 11/29/20 03:30 PM
Interesting Post on Touch Weight
by Harpuia - 11/29/20 03:28 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,139
Posts3,028,592
Members99,423
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4