Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Why is it always Steinway in concert hall

HI Noam,
What you're calling distortion, I think I would call "color" or texture in the sound-- more interesting possibilities to work with and a more human vocal quality to it.

Sophia

It is certainly a very well build piano.
It has a unique sound that most pianists find very expressive.
The bass is powerful and also has depth and resonance.
The treble is both complex and singing.
The tone control is extremely good.
fff passages do not sound harsh, and ppp passages are not hard to produce.
The touch is very even and responsive. Not heavy, not light, just the way it should be.

When all the above come together in a piano, it is hard to find a better one.

Great List Hakki.

I'd like to add: every Steinway is different. Each is hand made so it has its own personality and tone. I understand this is not true of piano brands which are machine made.

It's also not true of a lot of top-tier pianos that ARE hand made. Piano-to-piano differences exist, of course, but by and large, most of the top-tier handmade pianos have much more consistency than NY Steinways.

Even Steinway concedes that point and tries to make a virtue of necessity by characterizing the inconsistencies as each instrument having a unique personality and voice, etc., etc., etc.

I'm fond of Steinways, but I've never understood why Astoria doesn't make a more consistent instrument.

I think it's a fallacy that:

-any make of pianos are "hand made" in the sense of not using any machines.
-hand made is necessarily better than machine made for many parts of piano making.
-only Steinways are each different in sound/touch.
-each piano being quite different in sound/touch is necessarily a better thing.

I think there have been numerous threads that discuss this - here's one I stumbled on about the "Steinway Artist" program, which is an integral part of how Steinway has managed to keep its instruments in concert halls. A basic element in the scheme is that the pianists must, with few exceptions, play on Steinway instruments. Obviously, that will have the result that Steinway pianos are used in concerts, if very many pianists sign up for the program. And very many have.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1320562/1.html

thanks for all the reply and discussion. it did answer my question and solved the "mystery". I don't question the quality of Steinway, esp the ones in concert hall. However, I agreed with TwoSnowFlakes and others that whether Steinway is the "ABSOLUTE BEST", it's completely a subjective and personal choice.

with the combination of a superior quality of instrument AND a powerful marketing program, now it makes more sense to me where steinway is dominating most of the concert halls today.

If I have a 150K budget to buy a top-tier piano for home use, yeah i would very much want to have a steinway.

If I plan to spend a couple thousands on concert tickets, I probably would want to hear different artists and would be interested to hear different top tier pianos as well.

Was there ever a poll on PW that asked PW members whether they would like to hear other top tier pianos in concerts?!

I agree but allow me to play devil's advocate.

The notion of something is "best" or lets use the term "normal" for an example. What is NORMAL?

Normal is very subjective. Who is to say eating rice with a fork is considered Normal. Maybe with chopsticks, or dare I say, eat it with you hands!

Normal is what the majority does. It's not necessarily better per say, but never-the-less, it's normal.

So what is BEST piano? The ones the majority chooses, or would choose if they could.

- when Steinways are on stage time after time
- when famous pianists own a steinway at home
- when you ask the general piano owner - what is your dream piano? Most say, steinway

Yeah, it has no tangible proof from the above perspective, but it's one way of asking what is "best" in the simplest form.

On the other hand, Hakki, and myself attempted to explain what we loved about a steinway that has nothing to do with what makes it best due to popular belief. Timbre, touch, dynamic range what why we prefer those elements in compared with other brands. But of course, that's 100% subjective, because it's our own personal opinion.

But going back to the initial point, if majority of pianists that belive what me and Hakki do about steinway, couldn't we conclude that Steinway is the "best"?

Or at the very least, if someone looking to buy a top tier piano asks me, what is best? I would say - start with steinway, but also look at bechstein, Fazioli, Bosendofer, Steingraeber etc...

Re your three points:
It has been explained many times, including in this thread, that there are reasons why Steinways dominate the stage that have nothing to do with their quality. The Steinway artist program and the destruction of the factories of competitors (like Bechstein) during the war are two of these reasons. Another reason sometimes given, the ability of Steinway to project in a large hall over an orchestra, is irrelevant to a home owner's evaluation of quality.

To become a Steinway artist I believe a pianist must first own a Steinway so that covers your second point. In addition, knowing they will probably play mostly Steinways in concert, some pianists would choose to own a Steinway at home to be able to practice on a similar instrument.

Re point three, the general piano owner has not even heard of many/most of the other tier 1 and tier 2 instruments.

Your three points are essentially what Steinway uses in their ads.

You're making quiet a few assumptions there. First of all, USA hasn't got the 'majority' of the world's great pianists. Europe (which includes Russia) has. And China has most of the world's pianists.

And many - possibly most, if you're talking Europe - "Steinway Pianists" have a different brand of piano at home. Even though they may only play Steinway in concerts. And many European concert pianists who have much greater exposure to other brands won't necessarily prefer Steinway, if they had a choice.

In the last Chopin Competition, only four out of the ten finalists chose to play on Steinway - yet no other prestige German/Austrian brand made their concert grands available to them (read my previous post about this). What would have happened if, indeed Bösendorfer, C.Bechstein, Blüthner et al had got into the act alongside Fazioli, Yamaha and Kawai? How many would actually have chosen to play Steinway then? (And almost certainly, they had all played Steinways at their conservatoires, and maybe none of the other brands that they ended up choosing).

As for timbre, touch and dynamic range, there are pianos that better Steinway - according to quite a few concert pianists (and myself). In fact, with regard to dynamic range, I don't think that there's any dispute that Fazioli beats Steinway. (Have you played the F278 or, even better, the F308?) The other two criteria are obviously subjective.

Finally, in the Indian subcontinent of India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Nepal, they eat rice with their hands. Didn't you know?

Of course, the artist program and marketing might have some effect on the success of Steinway on stage.

But that alone is not sufficient to explain such a wide popularity.

If the sound and touch of another piano was considerably better and attractive for most pianists and listeners, no marketing or artist program would prevent that piano becoming the major brand on concert stages.

I trust in thousands of pianists and millions of listeners.

Yep! Majority rules!

I have yet to play a different manufacturer that leaves me feeling like "I wish a steinway can do that" But I have played other manufacturers where I felt the opposite "I wish did what a steinway can" in certain aspects.

Is a fazioli more clear and precise sound than steinway? Yes. But I never wanted a steinway to do that. I wish on the other hand a Fazioli would have more complex texture like a steinway.


a Steingraeber can play software than a steinway. Practically, how soft do you want a piano to be able to play? If we are talking about Concert Halls, there is such thing as impractically TOO soft. If you go below a certain decibel level, people would have a difficult time hearing what you are playing. Playing that softly is impressive, but from a practical standpoint for a concert hall, it's just a circus trick.

Needless to say, different ears hear things different, so as long as we understand that we can never agree, we can continue having a good debate and share our personal tastes, and opinions no?

People have given other additional reasons, but you obviously didn't pay attention. What other piano manufacturer outputs sufficient quantity to fill the world's concert halls, schools, and homes?

Steingraeber makes less than 100 pianos per year, and yet a lot of people consider them to be the best piano by far. Even if that is true, it's still not enough to fill the world's demand for pianos.

I also believe in the supply-demand curve that I had been thought in the economics class.

Google revealed the best 10 pianos

1. Steinway and Sons
2. Bosendorfer
3. Yamaha
4. Baldwin
5. Mason and Hamlin
6. Kawai
7. Stewart and Sons
8. Charles Walter
9. Bechstein
10. Fazioli

regards btb

PS I wouldn't swop my Grotrian Steinweg upright for a fleet of Mercedes ... anybody want to make an offer?

Concert grands I have tuned in concert, as best I can remember: Yamaha, Steinway, Baldwin, Bechstein, Bösendorfer, and Fazioli. That is in order of how often I tuned them.

My goodness, I forget how powerful they are!


-J

Hi beet 12345,
Seeing the name Schoenberg had me shivering in my boots
at the chilling reminder of his "A Survivor from Warsaw"
Opus 46. ( I have both the music and the score)

20 January 2014
A Survivor from Warsaw ... Opus 46
Arnold Schoenberg

“I cannot remember everything. I must have been unconscious most of the time.
I remember only the grandiose moment when they all started to sing, as if prearranged, the old prayer they had neglected for so many years - the forgotten creed!
But I have no recollection how I got underground to live in the sewers of Warsaw for so long a time. The day began as usual: Reveille when it still was dark. "Get out!" Whether you slept or whether worries kept you awake the whole night. You had been separated from your children, from your wife, from your parents. You don't know what happened to them... How could you sleep?
The trumpets again - "Get out! The sergeant will be furious!" They came out; some very slowly, the old ones, the sick ones; some with nervous agility. They fear the sergeant. They hurry as much as they can. In vain! Much too much noise, much too much commotion! And not fast enough! The Feldwebel shouts: "Achtung! Stilljestanden! Na wird's mal! Oder soll ich mit dem Jewehrkolben nachhelfen? Na jut; wenn ihrs durchaus haben wollt!" ("Attention! Stand still! How about it, or should I help you along with the butt of my rifle? Oh well, if you really want to have it!")
The sergeant and his subordinates hit (everyone): young or old, (strong or sick), quiet, guilty or innocent ...
It was painful to hear them groaning and moaning.
I heard it though I had been hit very hard, so hard that I could not help falling down. We all on the (ground) who could not stand up were (then) beaten over the head...
I must have been unconscious. The next thing I heard was a soldier saying: "They are all dead!"
Whereupon the sergeant ordered to do away with us.
There I lay aside half conscious. It had become very still - fear and pain. Then I heard the sergeant shouting: „Abzählen!“ ("Count off!")
They start slowly and irregularly: one, two, three, four - "Achtung!" The sergeant shouted again, "Rascher! Nochmals von vorn anfange! In einer Minute will ich wissen, wieviele ich zur Gaskammer abliefere! Abzählen!“ ("Faster! Once more, start from the beginning! In one minute I want to know how many I am going to send off to the gas chamber! Count off!")
They began again, first slowly: one, two, three, four, became faster and faster, so fast that it finally sounded like a stampede of wild horses, and (all) of a sudden, in the middle of it, they began singing the Shema Yisroel.”

“Sh'ma Yisraeil, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad.
V'ahavta eit Adonai Elohecha b'chawl l'vav'cha uv'chawl nafsh'cha, uv'chawl m'odecha.
V'hayu had'varim haeileh, asher anochi m'tsav'cha hayom, al l'vavecha. V'shinantam l'vanecha, v'dibarta bam b'shivt'cha b'veitecha, uvlecht'cha vaderech, uv'shawchb'cha uvkumecha. Ukshartam l'ot al yadecha, v'hayu l'totafot bein einecha. Uchtavtam, al m'zuzot beitecha, uvisharecha.”

regards, btb (wish I could read Hebrew)

Have you ever heard of a piano called AUGUST FÖRSTER? A friend of mine has it. It Is an excellent piano. I just have never heard it before.

"Steinway Pianists" should, in this case, not be confused with "Steinway Artists". To be an "artist" one must own a Steinway and must perform on a Steinway where one is available.