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Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Ganddalf] #2216022
01/17/14 03:38 AM
01/17/14 03:38 AM
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Ganddalf Offline OP
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Updated list:

J.S.Bach

French Suite No.4 – 1RC
English Suite no.2 – FarmGirl
Partita no.1 - Carey
Partita no.3 - Ganddalf
Partita no.6 - Kuanpiano

G.F. Händel

Keyboard suite no. 16 - Cinnamobear

E.Grieg

Peer Gynt Suite no.1 - Damon
From Holberg's time - jeffreyjones

C.Debussy

Suite Bergamasque - woodog
Suite pour le Piano - neuralfirings

M.Ravel

Tombeau de Couperin - hreichgott + ScriabinAddict

B.Bartok

Suite Op.14 – Kreisler
Six Romanian Folk Dances - Carey

Deodat de Severac

En Languedoc: Suite pour piano - Tim Adrianson

Alberto Ginastera

Suite de Danzas Criollas - Orange Soda King

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Carey] #2216024
01/17/14 03:44 AM
01/17/14 03:44 AM
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Ganddalf Offline OP
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Originally Posted by carey
I'm certainly no expert - but Bach named this work "Concerto in the Italian Style." If he'd considered it a suite or partita he would've called it that instead. The Woodland Sketches, on the other hand, are sometimes referred to as a "suite" even tho McDowell himself didn't name it as such. I've seen the Scenes from Childhood referred to as a "suite" along with Papillions - but not works such as Carnival or Album for the Young. Then, of course, we have the Mendelssohn Songs Without Words and Grieg Lyric Pieces - neither of which I've ever seen referred to as a suite. So - it tends to get kind of fuzzy - doesn't it??

Definitions of "suite" seem to fall into three general categories - as summarized below....

SUITE - Music
a. an instrumental composition consisting of several movements in the same key based on or derived from dance rhythms, esp in the baroque period
b. an instrumental composition in several movements less closely connected than a sonata
c. a piece of music containing movements based on or extracted from music already used in an opera, ballet, play, etc.

Collins Discovery Encyclopedia, 1st edition © HarperCollins Publishers 2005


Based on this it seems that "Woodland Sketches" could be accepted as a suite while "Scenes from Childhood" and "Italian Concerto" are not. Since we have defined this as a "Suite" recital I suggest that we stick to this limitation.

Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: jeffreyjones] #2216025
01/17/14 03:48 AM
01/17/14 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
The OP did say that "suite" should be in the title, with exceptions for other pieces with the common dance forms you find in Baroque suites, like From Holberg's Time. That's why Le Tombeau de Couperin is acceptable but Kinderscenen wouldn't fit the theme.

It's probably worth noting that only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.

Given this, where might Bartok's Six Romanian Folk Dances fit into the great scheme of things????


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Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Carey] #2216041
01/17/14 06:11 AM
01/17/14 06:11 AM
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Ganddalf Offline OP
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Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
The OP did say that "suite" should be in the title, with exceptions for other pieces with the common dance forms you find in Baroque suites, like From Holberg's Time. That's why Le Tombeau de Couperin is acceptable but Kinderscenen wouldn't fit the theme.

It's probably worth noting that only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.

Given this, where might Bartok's Six Romanian Folk Dances fit into the great scheme of things????


The OP gave these directions as an attempt to limit the scope of this recital. But I want to be flexible and avoid too much formalism.

Bartok's Romainan Folk Dances is a sequence of pieces with dance rhythms. In fact the word "suite" can also be translated a "sequence". Therefore I would say it fits.

Several of the modern "suites" contain movements without dance character. Suite Bergamasque also has only two "dances", and the main point is that the pieces are intended to be performed in sequence.

Anyhow I we must keep sonatas outside the scope even if they also consist of movements intended to be performed in "sequence". This is because the sonata is a well defined form and the literature is so huge that we can make several "sonata e-citals" later. I would, however, not have any objections to accepting the Italian Concerto in the "sonata" context.

Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Ganddalf] #2216061
01/17/14 08:38 AM
01/17/14 08:38 AM
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Another question about acceptable pieces - I was toying with the idea of trying to learn a 20th century partita (by Arthur Berger) for this e-cital, and although it is a multiple movement work, none are dances. But, on the other hand, probably emulating Bach, there is an Aria and a Capriccio in it.

So I guess the question I have is - does anything titled "Partita" also fit, or just Bach's?

BTW, I'm not really ready to commit, but thought it was probably better to ask right away, before I spent too much time trying to figure out whether I can actually play it.



Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Carey] #2216069
01/17/14 09:02 AM
01/17/14 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by carey
[...] It's probably worth noting that only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.[...]


In that case, it's worth noting that some suites and partitas from the Baroque period included a prelude, fugue, or toccata (or fantasie, sinfonia, or overture) along with the dance forms. smile


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: wr] #2216079
01/17/14 09:12 AM
01/17/14 09:12 AM
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Ganddalf Offline OP
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Originally Posted by wr
Another question about acceptable pieces - I was toying with the idea of trying to learn a 20th century partita (by Arthur Berger) for this e-cital, and although it is a multiple movement work, none are dances. But, on the other hand, probably emulating Bach, there is an Aria and a Capriccio in it.

So I guess the question I have is - does anything titled "Partita" also fit, or just Bach's?

BTW, I'm not really ready to commit, but thought it was probably better to ask right away, before I spent too much time trying to figure out whether I can actually play it.




There is little difference between the meaning of "suite" and "partita". It sounds to me that the Artur Berger work fits well here.

Last edited by Ganddalf; 01/17/14 09:17 AM.
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Ganddalf] #2216085
01/17/14 09:23 AM
01/17/14 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Ganddalf

There is little difference between the meaning of "suite" and "partita". It sounds to me that the Artur Berger work fits well here.


Thanks. That's what I think, too.



Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Ganddalf] #2216088
01/17/14 09:29 AM
01/17/14 09:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,023
Boynton Beach, FL
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Originally Posted by Ganddalf
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
The OP did say that "suite" should be in the title, with exceptions for other pieces with the common dance forms you find in Baroque suites, like From Holberg's Time. That's why Le Tombeau de Couperin is acceptable but Kinderscenen wouldn't fit the theme.

It's probably worth noting that only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.

Given this, where might Bartok's Six Romanian Folk Dances fit into the great scheme of things????


The OP gave these directions as an attempt to limit the scope of this recital. But I want to be flexible and avoid too much formalism.

Bartok's Romainan Folk Dances is a sequence of pieces with dance rhythms. In fact the word "suite" can also be translated a "sequence". Therefore I would say it fits.

Several of the modern "suites" contain movements without dance character. Suite Bergamasque also has only two "dances", and the main point is that the pieces are intended to be performed in sequence.

Anyhow I we must keep sonatas outside the scope even if they also consist of movements intended to be performed in "sequence". This is because the sonata is a well defined form and the literature is so huge that we can make several "sonata e-citals" later. I would, however, not have any objections to accepting the Italian Concerto in the "sonata" context.
What about Bartok Six Dances in Bulgarian Rhythms from Mikrokosmos Vol. 6?


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Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Morodiene] #2216102
01/17/14 10:01 AM
01/17/14 10:01 AM
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Ganddalf Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
What about Bartok Six Dances in Bulgarian Rhythms from Mikrokosmos Vol. 6?


I don't know these pieces, but it sounds ok to me.

Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Ganddalf] #2216315
01/17/14 05:56 PM
01/17/14 05:56 PM
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Ottawa, ON
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Thanks everyone for the help!



Re-learning (polishing):
Chopin - Prelude in D-flat major Op. 28 No 15

Working on:
Chopin - Waltz in C-sharp minor Op. 64 No. 2
Deubussy - Suite bergamasque - Clair de lune
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: albumblatter] #2216381
01/17/14 09:10 PM
01/17/14 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by albumblatter
I have studied the two pieces from Feinberg's Suite No. 1, Op. 11 -- Etude no. 1 and no. 4.
I think it will be more than ample time for me to learn the other two pieces. smile
Please sign me up for Feinberg's Suite No. 1!


A couple of these pieces have never been recorded, to my knowledge, so we may be in for a premiere!


Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Polyphonist] #2216390
01/17/14 09:31 PM
01/17/14 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
The Scenes from Childhood are definitely not a suite.


Funny, immediately after browsing this thread, I read this article posted in this thread. And I highlight this paragraph:

Quote
The evening opened with the belated premiere of Marc Neikrug’s “Passions, Reflected” for solo piano, written in 2008. Structured in 12 sections, the piece was inspired, Mr. Neikrug told the audience, by Schumann’s imaginative suites for piano.


Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Ganddalf] #2216407
01/17/14 10:27 PM
01/17/14 10:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,318
Scottsdale, AZ
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Hi everyone and Gandalf,
After due consideration and discussion with my friend, I decided to go French. Can I switch to French Suite II c minor BWV813. This one is much shorter and very pretty. My friend may join the forum to share this with me. Please put it under my name until he formerly joins. Thanks.

I will P-mail the same to Gandalf now.


1) Bach c minor fantasy
2) Morzart Rondo in A minor, K511
3) Schubert Impromptu A flat D935 No2
4) Scriabin op11 prelude #2 and #14 (Re do #2, new #14)
5) kabalevsky Variations in A minor OP 40-2
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Carey] #2216416
01/17/14 11:01 PM
01/17/14 11:01 PM
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western MA, USA
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Originally Posted by carey
only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.

Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes routinely appear in French Baroque suites. You're right about the other movements.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: D. S. F.] #2216429
01/17/14 11:14 PM
01/17/14 11:14 PM
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Rockford, IL
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Originally Posted by D. S. F.
Originally Posted by albumblatter
I have studied the two pieces from Feinberg's Suite No. 1, Op. 11 -- Etude no. 1 and no. 4.
I think it will be more than ample time for me to learn the other two pieces. smile
Please sign me up for Feinberg's Suite No. 1!


A couple of these pieces have never been recorded, to my knowledge, so we may be in for a premiere!


Whoa!!! Cool!!!


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: hreichgott] #2216431
01/17/14 11:18 PM
01/17/14 11:18 PM
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Rockford, IL
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Originally Posted by hreichgott
Originally Posted by carey
only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.

Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes routinely appear in French Baroque suites. You're right about the other movements.


Are not Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes dance forms? Are you saying, "If it's a dance form, even if it's Italian, it's o.k."? (I think that's what I heard you say...)


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: Cinnamonbear] #2216435
01/17/14 11:30 PM
01/17/14 11:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
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western MA, USA
hreichgott Offline
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Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Originally Posted by carey
only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.

Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes routinely appear in French Baroque suites. You're right about the other movements.


Are not Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes dance forms? Are you saying, "If it's a dance form, even if it's Italian, it's o.k."? (I think that's what I heard you say...)

Yes! I also support the Sarabande as part of a baroque suite, even though it is from Latin America.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: hreichgott] #2216441
01/17/14 11:36 PM
01/17/14 11:36 PM
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San Jose, CA
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Originally Posted by hreichgott
Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Originally Posted by carey
only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.

Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes routinely appear in French Baroque suites. You're right about the other movements.


Are not Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes dance forms? Are you saying, "If it's a dance form, even if it's Italian, it's o.k."? (I think that's what I heard you say...)

Yes! I also support the Sarabande as part of a baroque suite, even though it is from Latin America.


It was a court dance for a couple of centuries before the time of Bach, so there is a long precedent for it. Interesting how a dance that was seen as indecent and vulgar became adopted by the upper crust.

Re: Themed recital: Suites [Re: jeffreyjones] #2216445
01/17/14 11:42 PM
01/17/14 11:42 PM
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western MA, USA
hreichgott Offline
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Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Originally Posted by carey
only two of the six movements in the Tombeau are based on Baroque dance forms - and one is based on an Italian folk dance. The remaining movements (Prelude, Fugue, Toccata) harken back to the Baroque period - but aren't dance forms.

Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes routinely appear in French Baroque suites. You're right about the other movements.


Are not Menuets, Rigaudons and Forlanes dance forms? Are you saying, "If it's a dance form, even if it's Italian, it's o.k."? (I think that's what I heard you say...)

Yes! I also support the Sarabande as part of a baroque suite, even though it is from Latin America.


It was a court dance for a couple of centuries before the time of Bach, so there is a long precedent for it. Interesting how a dance that was seen as indecent and vulgar became adopted by the upper crust.

Given enough time that happens with the most amazing things smile
I know very little about pre-Baroque dance music but at least by the time of Couperin and Rameau the forlane was a well-established form in France.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
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