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#2213844 - 01/13/14 09:03 AM Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 100
dr.dai phan Offline
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dr.dai phan  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 100
Hello all,

I bought the Ivory II Grand pianos package and I think they are the best of what I have had so far (Pianoteq 4, Allicia's Keys, Pianissimo and Addictive Keys). I liked the Steinway the best because of its deep sound. Also 18 velocity layers allow me to express my touch accurately compared to others. However, the sound is still sounding like the piano is encased in a box or bathroom and I have tried doing some tweakings to no avail. I would like to know what setting(s)you have used to get the best piano sound. I do not have headphones so I listen through my monitor speakers. Here are my specs:

1. Ivory II Grand Pianos
2. Yamaha HS-80 main with HS-10 Sub.
3. Focusrite 2i2 Audio Interface.
4. Kawai VPC1 with Ivory touch setting.

Thanks all and I look forward to your guidance. DP

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#2223722 - 01/31/14 05:04 PM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: dr.dai phan]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 15
kkelly Offline
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kkelly  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 15
Ohio, USA
I've had the same experience with the Yamaha C7. It sounds hollow, nothing like the demos and recordings I've heard from other users. Someone mentioned in another thread that it resembles what a raw recording of a real piano would sound like, so presumably the same sort of processing would apply. Have you made any progress with it?


Yamaha C3
Yamaha CP-33
Synthogy Ivory II

All glory to the Hypnotoad!
#2223747 - 01/31/14 06:12 PM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: kkelly]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
Hans CRG Offline
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Hans CRG  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
I have the same experience with Ivory II American D. Not only that, I found the pedal sustaining decays fast compared with real grand piano. I tried many different setting and do not see any way to increase the length of time of pedal sustaining.

Last edited by Hans CRG; 01/31/14 06:13 PM.
#2223813 - 01/31/14 08:00 PM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: dr.dai phan]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 861
AZ_Astro Offline
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AZ_Astro  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 861
Tempe, Arizona
This doesn't sound right and it seems like it should be an easy fix. But ...

I would suggest that you try it with headphones. I think the sound from the headphones is significantly better than the speakers, and it is a lot "closer." Borrow headphones for this if you have to but you need to hear the sound without the other hardware involved.

Then - if you still have the "bathroom" effect with the headphones, let us know and I'll screen shot some of my parameters that I have set. But, I start with German D 18 Level 2, along with the EQ Studio effects (default), then I have tweaked a fair number of parameters (so much that I don't remember what the defaults were.) (But I do turn off the pedal and key noises, for example, and I tinker with dynamics a bit.)

But, I don't have a bathroom effect at all. And I prefer a close, somewhat dry sound.

Hans CRG: The American D has incredible sustain! Just now, playing the German D, when I hit a bass note with the sustain pedal, the note will resonate for over 30 seconds. I would have to check but I think it's much longer still on the American D.





Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2223877 - 01/31/14 09:59 PM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: AZ_Astro]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 15
kkelly Offline
Junior Member
kkelly  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 15
Ohio, USA
I have indeed found that it sounds better with headphones, but the demos sound great on the same speakers that give a hollow sound (maybe the same "bathroom" sound dr. dai mentions) when I'm playing through them. I've been studying the production side of things lately and one thing that comes up a lot is music that sounds good on speakers almost always sounds good on headphones, but the inverse isn't the case nearly as often, so I'd like to get a good speaker sound.

I'm going to set aside several hours this weekend, lock myself in my home studio, and turn knobs in Ivory until I like what I hear. I'll post what I come up with and maybe it will translate to the Steinway or at least give some direction.


Yamaha C3
Yamaha CP-33
Synthogy Ivory II

All glory to the Hypnotoad!
#2223939 - 02/01/14 01:22 AM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: kkelly]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 861
AZ_Astro Offline
500 Post Club Member
AZ_Astro  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 861
Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted by kkelly
I have indeed found that it sounds better with headphones, but the demos sound great on the same speakers that give a hollow sound (maybe the same "bathroom" sound dr. dai mentions) when I'm playing through them. I've been studying the production side of things lately and one thing that comes up a lot is music that sounds good on speakers almost always sounds good on headphones, but the inverse isn't the case nearly as often, so I'd like to get a good speaker sound.

I'm going to set aside several hours this weekend, lock myself in my home studio, and turn knobs in Ivory until I like what I hear. I'll post what I come up with and maybe it will translate to the Steinway or at least give some direction.



I haven't heard anyone rave about the C7 in the Ivory II package, so good luck with that. The German D piano is appreciated by many, however.

Dr. Phan has the Yamaha HS-80s which are well known to be pretty delightful studio monitor speakers, so I am a little perplexed by the idea that the sound seems contained. Check reverb, player/audience settings, and/or reverb environment effects (like a large concert hall)?

I have Rokit 8 studio monitors and I don't think the sound emanating from them is nearly as good as the sound from the headphones either. I guess I could say I am a little disappointed by the speaker set-up. (But it's much better than the built-in keyboard piano sound in my Korg keyboard!)



Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2224093 - 02/01/14 10:57 AM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: AZ_Astro]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 15
kkelly Offline
Junior Member
kkelly  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 15
Ohio, USA
Originally Posted by AZ_Astro

I haven't heard anyone rave about the C7 in the Ivory II package, so good luck with that. The German D piano is appreciated by many, however.


I've heard from some people who didn't like the C7, gave it some time, and eventually preferred it over the Steinway and Bosendorfer. Personally I never cared for the Steinway sound, in Ivory or in real life. It's too dark for my tastes. Ultimately it's a matter of personal preference.


Yamaha C3
Yamaha CP-33
Synthogy Ivory II

All glory to the Hypnotoad!
#2224525 - 02/02/14 10:00 AM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: dr.dai phan]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 861
AZ_Astro Offline
500 Post Club Member
AZ_Astro  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 861
Tempe, Arizona
I gave the C7 another whirl today. Here's what I did.


Select the following below:

Session/Default (Load the default settings for this session)
Change Memory Use to LARGE
Voices to 40
Gain to 7.5 db (because Ivory II default settings are rather quiet)
Velocity Map Preset to Warm Touch 2 (to soften things up a bit)


Program/Program Preset/Contemplative C7 Factory (loads that preset)
Try both the Performer and the Audience select and see which one you like better.
[My program screen at this point shows Medium Resonant 2 for the sustain resonance and PCM pad over to the right side. At the top it says *Contemplative C7 for the program preset.]

Effects/C7 Studio I Factory

Preferences
[I don't touch anything on this screen. Knob tracking is at linear. Other two presets are both ON.]

***

I don't like to save anything over the DEFAULTS so I usually go backwards through the Session, Program, and Effects screens and save each screen with a name that matches the name plus my initials.

***

This made the C7 pretty playable and I did enjoy it.

***

I do something pretty similar with the German D.

All this was learned in a rather haphazard fashion and I am a little dissatisfied with Synthogy's guidance to users. I guess they think they have provided ample clarification with all of their presets...









Last edited by AZ_Astro; 02/02/14 10:04 AM.

Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2225257 - 02/03/14 04:03 PM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: dr.dai phan]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
Hans CRG Offline
Junior Member
Hans CRG  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
AZ_Astro, What I mean is the sound level drop down quickly in Ivory pedal sustaining. I have a grand piano side by side to compare the pedal effect. The Ivory definitly lost its pedal sustaining sound level quickly.

Last edited by Hans CRG; 02/03/14 04:12 PM.
#2225303 - 02/03/14 06:25 PM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: AZ_Astro]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 15
kkelly Offline
Junior Member
kkelly  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 15
Ohio, USA
AZ, I tried your settings and it did sound better, but it's not the sound I'm looking for so I played around with the EQ and made a significant improvement. I'm going for a more present sound, which I got closer to by boosting between 5kHz and 10kHz. It's not quite where I want it yet, but it's closer. Next on the list is cleaning up the sound of the low end a bit.

I'm also annoyed at Synthogy's lack of guidance. Most software companies host user forums where things like this could be discussed. That's a glaring omission in my book.


Yamaha C3
Yamaha CP-33
Synthogy Ivory II

All glory to the Hypnotoad!
#2225675 - 02/04/14 10:35 AM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: dr.dai phan]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 100
dr.dai phan Offline
Full Member
dr.dai phan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 100
Hi all,

For those who are happy with the Ivory II Steinway sounds, could you please let me know your settings? Thank you very much. Dai

#2226065 - 02/05/14 12:05 AM Re: Please Advise Me on Ivory II Steinway Settings [Re: dr.dai phan]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 861
AZ_Astro Offline
500 Post Club Member
AZ_Astro  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 861
Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted by dr.dai phan
Hi all,

For those who are happy with the Ivory II Steinway sounds, could you please let me know your settings? Thank you very much. Dai


Try this out and see how you like it.

***

On the Session tab, load one of the "default" settings and then tweak it as follows:

Session Preset (mine says: *Default)
Memory Use: Large
Voices: 40

Gain: Set this to 7.5 up to 9.0 as desired. Ivory II is rather quiet.
Velocity Map Preset: Mine is set to *Warm Touch 2
Tuning is at: Stretch
Nothing else has been changed...

On the Program tab:
Load the Program Preset for: *German Concert D Grand II
On the left side, The Sustain Resonance is set to: Medium Resonant 2 (On at -1.0 dB)
I sometimes tweak Dynamic Range: Mine is currently at 39 dB
Lid Position is: Full Stick
Keyset is: German D 18 Level 2
Release Samples are ON
Soft Pedal Samples are ON
... and I don't think I touched anything else on that screen.
My Synth Layer is: OFF
Stereo Perspective is: PERFORMER but I sometimes change that to AUDIENCE.


EFFECTS Tab:
I Try a few of the Effects Presets. Some that I like are the Dry EQ Studio and some of the other Studios. I generally don't like the auditoriums because of excessive echo/reverb. I prefer a dryer "sitting in front of the piano" sound.

I don't touch the knobs on this screen.

Preferences Tab:
I don't touch this screen.

Try these out and see how they sound.













Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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