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Name a piano that you think is a wonderful value or is a great performer, but is often overlooked by the piano playing public.

And why is it overlooked?

Jolly,

I don't have a specific model in mind but I have a comment.

In general, the first time buyer overlooks many great opportunities because their teacher, brother, sister, (insert name here) who knows about pianos told them to only buy a "xxxxx" (again, insert name here). The person mentioned is usually a "concert pianist" as well.

Consumers who are uneducated make bad decisions. I also think this goes for more than just pianos.

Yes, this is so true.

Older concert grands. They last a long time, the sound is magnificent, and you can often find them for very little money. They're overlooked because people aren't willing to devote nine feet of floor space to a piano.

Great piano, but seldom mentioned: Sohmer & Co. (pre-1983).

On the new market: Shigeru Kawai. Many people haven't heard of it, or think it's simply an option on their normal consumer line. I think it's was of the best values at the high end of the market. Moving downmarket... I think Hailuns are still overlooked as you can't hardly find them anywhere.

On the used market there are so many all I can do is list what comes to the top of my head: Kurtzman, Sohmer (the old ones), Knabe (the American ones), Vose and Sons (pre 1930), Chickering (the name was eventually driven into the mud), Steinert, Bluthner (outside of Pianoworld most in USA haven't heard of it).

The two Walter grands are among the most overlooked grands on the market even though they are among the world's best in their size ranges.

We hear a lot about the Walter uprights but the grands are not promoted at all.


ddf

I played a CW190 once and thought it was quite wonderful. At that time, my piano teacher had an L that he adored and kept well serviced. The L was, in fact, very nice indeed, but the CW190 blew it away, especially in the lower half of the piano's compass.

I'm visiting my parents for Christmas and I've been playing on the Ronisch upright they bought for me new about 12 years ago. It's always a pleasure to come back to that piano and at the time it was purchased, it was priced only slightly more than a similar sized Kawai (which was my second choice.) I picked it myself based on what I thought sounded and played best in the price range.

I can relate to what Rich is saying. My parents asked my piano teacher for advice, and he told us to get a big used Yamaha like the one he played at church. Nothing wrong with that, except that he didn't really know what else was available on the market at the time, and I didn't like any Yamahas I tried . So we went to a few different piano stores, I tried everything and anything and bought the instrument that was most fun to play (even though almost no-one has ever heard of the brand). And no regrets.

These days, Ronisch is owned by Bluthner and the pianos have been redesigned and got a bit more expensive. I haven't played any of these newer models, but would love to try some out one day.

Like another aspect of life- practice on as many as you can before you decide which one to get and keep.

"...We hear a lot about the Walter uprights but the grands are not promoted at all..."

I do urge people to go to the trouble to find a dealer who carries them, and to consider them when they are looking for a grand for the home. But if you mean, "Does the company promote them," then I'd have to say no, or at least, that I've never heard of it. And if these shoppers do get to the showroom, the typical giant sales floor is not optimal for hearing these instruments.

However, Carnes in San Jose has moved their Walter grands to a newly-made section of their sales floor. It's the size of a fairly big living room; two walls are solid glass plate. It may not be the ideal showcase--- a little on the live side--- but I give them credit for taking a step in the right direction. And it would warm your heart to see the effort Darlene makes to get customers to give them a fair try, even though they may never have heard the name before... and that's a steep hill to scale.

If I had known more when I was piano shopping, about its special features and design philosophy, it could be sitting in my living room today. Though, to be honest, Kawai's MIII action is very hard to beat, and when you're trying your way through 15 or 20 pianos, it stands out. Maybe it's preaching to the choir, but C. Walter doesn't even have an ad on PW, to help make their website easy to find; these days, that kind of thing can help a lot.

Bottom line... well, most shoppers are looking for uprights anyway, and that's why they get directed to the CW 1500. And they end up buying a used Yamaha. Bottom line... you're closer to right than not.

My 1925 7' August Forster grand is the find of my LIFE! I installed a new pinblock. Overall, this piano is better than any Steinway of equal size. This thing gives me so much playing pleasure that I doubt I could let it go at any price

I played a Charles Walter at Carnes but only for a couple of minutes. I'm not sure if the one they had needed some regulation work or what not, but the action was incredibly stiff. The stiffest I've ever encountered. I just got done playing their Kawai RX's, which isn't exactly the lightest action either.

I knew the piano market in the 80's and 90's, took a long layoff and got re-acquainted with it a year or two ago, read PianoBuyer, and definitely did read about Charles Walter. But when I read words like "Made in America" and "handmade" I sort of took it off of my list thinking it would be in a different pricing tier than something like a Kawai or Yamaha. I'm not sure if that's true or not. Hard to tell since the piano industry likes to mess around with MSRP. Anyways...

Another thing, when I went to Sherman Clay's in SF, they sell these pianos with the "Henry F. Miller" label, made by Pearl River I believe. I kept getting thinking that was the CW I read about. Perhaps if CW did more advertising I would remember their name better. I just remembered it as "some American guy's name."

A good CW can run with anybody's piano of the same size.

Anybody.

Hard action? Never run into one. Everyone we've ever sat down to had an action like butter. The piano wanted to be played.

And at the prices I've seen on some, they can be a screaming deal for the piano you're getting.

+1

Did you ask about the action? The people at the factory lavish time and attention on the action setup. More than many companies offering considerably more expensive pianos. I've never known one to have and action that "was incredibly stiff."

I'm not suggesting that it couldn't happen, of course, but if it did you should have purchased it on the spot for its rarity. The value of such a one-of-a-kind instrument must surely go up quickly.

ddf

I have heard a lot of good things about CW but didn't try when I shopped for my grand because it seemed to be significantly out of my price range. If I remember right, a 5'9" would be in the 30-40 range. Much more than a Kawai in the similar size.

I've played Sohmer uprights and while they were good, they were less than a typical Yamaha upright.

If Sohmer made grands, I'm not aware.

I played a few refurbished large Charles Stieff uprights which were exceptional. I've also played a couple of Stieff baby grands which were equally as good.

Rich

Why hasn't "somebody" mentioned Petrof on here yet?