Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Question about minor keys

I'm yet to dive into seriously practicing or studying the piano so I guess there an easy answer to this(I do know basic music theory though).

I've noticed that there seems to be much focus, on the minor key. Why is this? Why aren't we only visualizing the minor key as any other mode or scale starting from another degree?

Does it have something to do with fingering(which fingers go on which piano key when playing a scale), are the fingerings different even if the scales happen to be their relative minor or major key?

Could be an interesting topic BUT what exactly do you mean by "much focus on the minor key".
As the key signature is the same as the relative major, other than playing and listening, I battle to deceide which "scale" to park into my memory!

I've not noticed that much focus here on minor keys, but perhaps the thing is that you do have 3 minor keys relative to one major key and two of them are probably a little bit more difficult to play than the relative major. May it be the reason? If not, then sorry, just practising g# melodic minor got me blind on that... :-)

This is from “LenMus” or “Phonescus” which is a free software, music theory study program (the older version also has a score writer)

Music in minor keys
a major key sounds bright and cheerful, a minor key is described as sounding more solemn sad, ominous.

I'm not sure what you're asking, but I think if you are simply asking if fingerings change or why they do, well, yes, they do. They have to.

I suppose you could play A minor in the natural mode and use fingering from c major. It would be weird, and also kind of throws off the natural phrasing assistance of always having your tonic landing under fingers used to handling them. The hand naturally likes to stop playing when it has run out of fingers, and it would be odd to start a minor on your third finger.

But then what are you going to do about the other two modes in a minor: harmonic and melodic?

I suppose you could play harmonic minor differently than the natural minor mode in the same key. But and what do you do with melodic minor, which switches to natural on the way down? Now you're introducing fingering for the natural minor that is one way when you're playing natural minor, and another way for the way down on melodic minor mode. Now you've got to have a fourth fingering for "natural mode down when up is melodic."

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

But maybe you're asking why is there focus in general on the minor? I haven't noticed it being over emphasized OTHER than the fact that it's not as intuitive as major mode and what's called "minor" is really a grouping of three modes, and one of which (melodic) that introduces a different way down as up. Fun when playing that two hands, contrary motion!

I would say that once you get used to playing black notes as well as white notes, THEN! and yes it is a big THEN you must work out the smoothest fingering to use: be it for a piece or a scale.
For a new piece I write in the fingering in pencil, bar by bar. Then its learn one hand and then the other and then together. Perhaps whilest doing the first page have a look further on as well- just for interest.
As far as scales go think/work out the patern in tones and half-tones. E.g. major is: tone, tone, half-tone, tone , tone ,tone, half-tone. And that is the same for every major scale, no matter the key.
Gee I wish my teachers had told me this sixty years ago!

I am talking about the minor key that contains only the diatonic notes, as the major scale.
Learning the Circle of Fifths in the major keys, is obvious. But it's apparently popular to learn all the minor keys too I've come to understand; but that makes sense now as there apparently are different fingerings for them.
But what about the other modes? Like mixolydian or Phrygian(these are scales, just like the minor one I mean), we haven't created separate fingering for those have we(I've barely seen them mentioned at all, that's what I meant with that we "focus" more on the minor scale, relative to the other mode scales)? I think I'm trying to figure out of there is something special with the particular minor scale that is 3 semitones down from its relative major.

I don’t know ,because there are about 5 questions.

1.
Which minor key?

2.
I thin k it is to create different kinds of music.

3.
That’s what I do, what do you do?

4.
Sure,
5.
Of course because of the patterns - One Pattern is the same for major scales One Pattern is the same for minor scales
Not all fingering is the same. but the major and minor PATTERNS stay the same.
You have to know if it is Natural, Melodic, or Harmonic.
I have texts that define the patterns differently than popular books do (the minor ones)
Ex: Minor Harmonic is
1t > 2s> 3t> 4t > 5s> 63s> 7s> 8 and

ALL RELATIVE minor scales are 3 semitones downs from it’s major Not just one particular one.The reason you should know if it is Major or Minor is because of the sound that it evokes in a listener.

Major scale patterns are generally melodic and rhythmic.
Minors are more emotive and sad.
Modes system id’s were generally used for chants.
I see on the internet, guitarists are using the mode system to identify the sound of their playing

All modes appear to be relative to the Ionian C MAJOR scale pattern, but begin on a different note (tone).
You still can transpose them from from the original base tone to a different tone and result in that mode
EX: all music in the key of C and its scale patterns are in Ionian mode. Major or minor relative.
The example I remember from a book was that “Scarborough Fair” by “Simon and Garfunkel” it is written in Dorian mode beginning on the base note “D” on an ending on the tone ”D”. (with the Dorian scale pattern starting on the 2nd tone. “D”.
I guess it could be thought of as the scale of C major with the Final Bass Note being the mode note you are playing

Ex” the scale of C Maj with DFA being the tonic chord if the mode is Dorain
Or use E as the final base note and EGB as the tonic but use the Dorain scale pattern not Phrygian and still have Dorain mode


I remember modes by the mnemonic
I
don’t
follow
lonely
men
and
laugh

Ionian I T-T-s-T-T-T-s C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C
Dorian II T-s-T-T-T-s-T D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D
Phrygian III s-T-T-T-s-T-T E-F-G-A-B-C-D-E
Lydian IV T-T-T-s-T-T-s F-G-A-B-C-D-E-F
Mixolydian V T-T-s-T-T-s-T G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G
Aeolian VI T-s-T-T-s-T-T A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A
Locrian VII s-T-T-s-T-T-T B-C-D-E-F-G-A-B


Take a look here: Cause I don’t quite fully understand modes .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode

to correct something I texted on another of your posts :
The key signature with one flat is F major not F flat major.

I think it takes quite some time to figure this all out.
I really get confused with timing sigs and tempos now, like mapping out a beat on scores

One other thing if you took Cmajor and put in in the Dorain mode all b's and e;s would be flat But it would be have to be noted as “Dorain mode” somewhere on the score because it would be following the dorian scale pattern which is the C major pattern starting on d

I think the question is, "Why is the minor mode used so often and the other modes are neglected?"

For some of them, it's to do with the structure of the scale.
For example, BCDEFGAB has no perfect fifth for the tonic note, which doesn't lend itself to an easy sense of tonality.

For other scales, like GABCDEFG, it might be due to the fifth tone's basic chord. The character of DFA is a departure from GBD, and while it can be used for good effect, often the fifth and its chords are used as a way of reinforcing the tonic. So when the fifth's chord is used in this mode, the mood is different than that of the tonic, not exactly a shining reinforcement, which, when structuring a piece that you want to be consistent, might be problematic.

Compare to C major, with its major chord for its fifth tone, and A minor, with a minor chord for its fifth. Subtleties like this allow for eccentricities when composing in the lesser used scales, and accidentals or other scale degrees to take on more structural purpose than in the major or minor modes.

Minor keys. Something to do with depression I think. . . or nostalgia, which everybody knows isn`t what it used to be . . .

If you really wish to get serious read the book "The Math Behind the Music" by Leon Harkleroad!!

It seems you're only asking about fingering? Or you also want to know about theory?
I can't really tell you about the fingering, I just really play whatever fingers seems to suit at the moment.

But about theory, well.. the relative minor is what it is, right? It's a similar tonality to the key itself, except when you focus on the key's vi and iii tones, you have a minor sound instead of major. But many of the chord progressions that are used to established the major tonality (IV V I, IIm V I) can also be used to establish the tonality of the relative minor.

But that's only one minor scale. There's four other popular ones: the so-called Dorian and Phrygian, which are both diatonic, and the melodic minor and harmonic minor, which are not.

Punchslap, you are probably studying along a certain book or course of studies which goes in a certain direction. But other people reading this didn't necessarily study the same things, so it's hard to tell what you are referring to. Some guesses just from what you have been writing:

One thing to get a handle on early are key signatures. Music is written in major and minor keys, and they share key signatures. For example, one sharp can be for the key of G major or E minor. A key signature of one flat can be for the key of F major or D minor. You will see that E is a minor 3 down from G (or a major 6 up from it); D is a minor 3 down from F. There are known as the relative major and relative minor of each other. If you are wondering "why the scale which is a third down, and none other?" this is why.

One way of explaining it is to begin with the diatonic minor: in other words C major, and A natural minor (the Ionic mode). The key of C major and A minor share the same key signature. One way of looking at it is that if you know C major, you can get A natural minor because you're playing the same notes but starting 3 down or 6 up.

In actual fact, minor keys more often have the harmonic or melodic minor because of considerations of harmony. So your A minor probably has a G# much of the time, shown by an accidental in the key of A minor. Theory books often introduce the melodic and harmonic minor by starting with the natural, and adding the accidentals as add-ons.

Music often modulates from the relative minor to the relative major (from A minor to C major), and also along fifths (from C major to G major). So the order in which things are taught often tries to mirror what happens in music.

Another way of looking at major and minor scales is along the same tonic: C major and C minor, for example. Often a composer changes moods by shuttling. In this case you can look at a scale differently. You can see that to change a major scale into a minor scale you can do the following:

C major: lower the 3rd degree. You get C melodic minor
C major: lower 3rd degree & 6th degree. C harmonic minor.
C major: lower 3, 6 & 7. You get C natural minor.

That is a different angle.

I don't think that in the beginning we think much in modes: (Dorian, etc.) because we're trying to get at the most common things in music which would be major and minor keys.

Funny that modes should pop up-- we had a great laugh a few nights ago, joking about modes that aren't, but could have been

Dorian and Ionian are, but Corinthian, Galatian, and Ephesian are not.
Phrygian is but Boilian is not.
Lydian is as is Mixolydian, but neither Shakolydian and Stirolydian are.

Locrian is, but I have yet to hear of Kyrian.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

There is Dorian though.

Yes, but not Windownian.

Speaking of which, recently I've been having a hard time financially. The stalks are down and they've cut my celery.