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#2216861 - 01/18/14 08:43 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: Pavel.K]  
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Updated list, I will be taking Op.9 no.2

Nocturnes:

1) B-flat minor, Op. 9 No. 1 (doctor S)
2) E-flat major, Op. 9 No. 2 (Chopinlives81)
3) B major, Op. 9 No. 3 (ansatz737)
4) F major, Op. 15 No. 1 (Roland The Beagle)
5) F-sharp major, Op. 15 No. 2 (DameMyra)
6) G minor, Op. 15 No. 3 (FarmGirl)
7) C-sharp minor, Op. 27 No. 1 (Morodiene)
8) D-flat major, Op. 27 No. 2 (chopinoholic)
9) B major, Op. 32 No. 1 (Brad Hoehne)
10) A-flat major, Op. 32 No. 2 (dynamobt)
11) G minor, Op. 37 No. 1 (ElaineAllegro)
12) G major, Op. 37 No. 2 (SlatterFan)
13) C minor, Op. 48 No. 1 (Kreisler)
14) F-sharp minor, Op. 48 No. 2 (BruceD)
15) F minor, Op. 55 No. 1 (Damon)
16) E-flat major, Op. 55 No. 2 (jeffreyjones)
17) B major, Op. 62 No. 1 (Emanuel Ravelli)
18) E major, Op. 62 No. 2 (dire tonic)
19) E minor, Op. 72 No. 1 (PikaPianist)
20) C-sharp minor, P1/16 (doctor S)
21) C minor, P2/8 (TwoSnowflakes)


Waltzes:

1) E-flat major, Op. 18 (Carey)
2) A-flat major, Op. 34 No. 1 (hreichgott)
3) A minor, Op. 34 No. 2 (Pathbreaker)
4) F major, Op. 34 No. 3 (ansatz737)
5) A-flat major, Op. 42 (Carey)
6) D-flat major, Op. 64 No. 1 (AZNpiano)
7) C-sharp minor, Op. 64 No. 2 (Sammae)
8) A-flat major, Op. 64 No. 3 (timmyab)
9) A-flat major, Op. 69 No. 1 (BruceD)
10) B minor, Op. 69 No. 2 (Sam S)
11) G-flat major, Op. 70 No. 1 (Tim Adrianson)
12) F minor, Op. 70 No. 2 (Ganddalf)
13) D-flat major, Op. 70 No. 3 (musica71)
14) E minor, KK IVa/15 (dannylux)
15) E major, KK IVa/12 (Tim Adrianson)
16) A-flat major, KK IVa/13 (Cinnamonbear)
17) E-flat major, KK IVa/14 (Cinnamonbear)
18) E-flat major, KK IVb/10 (maxmila)
19) A minor, KK IVb/11 (FSO)


"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
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#2216982 - 01/19/14 04:32 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: ChopinLives81]  
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Thank you very much, ChopinLives81. You are a rescuer!

#2225293 - 02/03/14 05:53 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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I missed this. Is it okay for me to sign up for the Nocturne 9/2 with other variants?

#2227282 - 02/07/14 03:07 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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This Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 is proving to be quite challenging but it's soooooo beautiful....


Danzas Argentinas, Alberto Ginastera
Piano Sonata Hob. XVI: 34 in E Minor, Franz Joseph Haydn
Nocturne, Op. 15 No. 1 in F Major, Frédéric Chopin
Prelude, Op. 11 No. 4 in E Minor, Alexander Scriabin
Prelude and Fugue in G Major, Well-Tempered Clavier Vol. 2, Johann Sebastian Bach
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#2227412 - 02/07/14 12:48 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: Roland The Beagle]  
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Originally Posted by Roland The Beagle
This Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 is proving to be quite challenging but it's soooooo beautiful....

ALL of the Nocturnes are challenging - as well as the waltzes !!! grin


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#2227460 - 02/07/14 02:21 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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Op. 15 nos. 1 and 2 are both very hard nocturnes.

#2227658 - 02/07/14 09:33 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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It's mainly these guys that are the chief issue:

http://i.imgur.com/O7v3C6f.png

I have some experience with double sixths from working on the Czerny Toccata, but these ones are even faster! Czerny's Toccata to tempo is 120bpm with sixteenth note sixths and thirds, in other words 8 sixths/thirds a second. This piece ends up being 8.4 sixths a second!

Don't think I'll be playing this tempo for awhile, but thankfully the slow section is so beautiful and the piece is so well-crafted as a whole that I won't have to for it to sound lovely.


Danzas Argentinas, Alberto Ginastera
Piano Sonata Hob. XVI: 34 in E Minor, Franz Joseph Haydn
Nocturne, Op. 15 No. 1 in F Major, Frédéric Chopin
Prelude, Op. 11 No. 4 in E Minor, Alexander Scriabin
Prelude and Fugue in G Major, Well-Tempered Clavier Vol. 2, Johann Sebastian Bach
#2232346 - 02/16/14 01:07 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: Roland The Beagle]  
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Can someone please explain

-How do we submit recordings for this recital (not that it's ready yet!)?
-How soon can we submit recordings (not that it's ready!!)?

Just trying to psych myself to finish something, anything, ahead of time. Thank you...

(I hope it's not info someone already posted in an obvious place and I missed it.)

#2232351 - 02/16/14 01:21 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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I don't even remember when it's due. I should get back to work on mine. whistle

#2232362 - 02/16/14 01:58 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: ElaineAllegro]  
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Originally Posted by ElaineAllegro
Can someone please explain

-How do we submit recordings for this recital (not that it's ready yet!)?
-How soon can we submit recordings (not that it's ready!!)?

Just trying to psych myself to finish something, anything, ahead of time. Thank you...

(I hope it's not info someone already posted in an obvious place and I missed it.)

You can submit recordings to me at any time.

#2232364 - 02/16/14 01:59 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: Pathbreaker]  
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Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
I don't even remember when it's due. I should get back to work on mine. whistle

March 22nd.

#2233400 - 02/17/14 09:13 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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I've noticed some imprecise notation in mine. Trying to figure out what this represents rhythmically:

http://i.imgur.com/PwgunVi.png

The piece is in 3/4 time, so the sixteenths are all beamed sextuplets. The issue is that the upper voice does not seem to agree with the lower voice in how the notes line up. If it is also in a six time, then it should be written as shown in the Sibelius clip right below in order for the notes to line up. If it isn't, then the notes would not line up this way and this is very confusing for the performer - instead they would align as shown two clips below the example.

Finally the last example is another confusing example of note value and alignment. It's hardly the biggest deal in the universe and the piece is stunning either way, but I would like a lesson on confusing Chopin notation if anyone can help smile


Danzas Argentinas, Alberto Ginastera
Piano Sonata Hob. XVI: 34 in E Minor, Franz Joseph Haydn
Nocturne, Op. 15 No. 1 in F Major, Frédéric Chopin
Prelude, Op. 11 No. 4 in E Minor, Alexander Scriabin
Prelude and Fugue in G Major, Well-Tempered Clavier Vol. 2, Johann Sebastian Bach
#2233401 - 02/17/14 09:20 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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What format should the submissions be? mp3, YouTube video, box file? I've not seen anything said about format.


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#2233406 - 02/17/14 09:32 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: Roland The Beagle]  
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Originally Posted by Roland The Beagle
I've noticed some imprecise notation in mine. Trying to figure out what this represents rhythmically:

http://i.imgur.com/PwgunVi.png

The piece is in 3/4 time, so the sixteenths are all beamed sextuplets. The issue is that the upper voice does not seem to agree with the lower voice in how the notes line up. If it is also in a six time, then it should be written as shown in the Sibelius clip right below in order for the notes to line up. If it isn't, then the notes would not line up this way and this is very confusing for the performer - instead they would align as shown two clips below the example.

Finally the last example is another confusing example of note value and alignment. It's hardly the biggest deal in the universe and the piece is stunning either way, but I would like a lesson on confusing Chopin notation if anyone can help smile


Ok I'm looking at the score now and...oh, that's kinda hairy I'm just not going to be able to help you there ha

Honestly my version is much more ambiguous than what you've got there.

EDIT: Ok wait, I think you've confused me here. Have you changed the notation in your image there? Now that I look at my version more closely in the section you cited, I don't see anything wrong there. I mean yes, the note values are changed in the Con fuoco without so much as a heads up but why not just assume that the upper voice shares the same value as your semiquavers? It conveniently lines up so that you don't even have to figure it out, right? The simplest answer is better here. At least, I would just go with that. Not that I'm known for lots of due diligence.

What I see here is that your dotted quaver counts for five semiquavers. Maybe it should only count for 4.5 but let's just round up. It might be imprecise but it's written in such a way that the direction is clear. Unless I'm completely wrong and there's a good chance on that too.

Last edited by Pathbreaker; 02/17/14 09:46 PM.
#2233419 - 02/17/14 10:16 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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You will not be graded on accuracy to the score, so whichever you like best will be fine.


Semipro Tech
#2233420 - 02/17/14 10:17 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: Pathbreaker]  
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Originally Posted by Pathbreaker

What I see here is that your dotted quaver counts for five semiquavers. Maybe it should only count for 4.5 but let's just round up. It might be imprecise but it's written in such a way that the direction is clear. Unless I'm completely wrong and there's a good chance on that too.


I think you are probably right, from a logical and simple point of view. In fact, this is what I naturally did and played as I was learning it, until I looked at it closely at some point and went "wait a sec...". Of course, I want to know the Truth (capital T) because I'm a meticulous perfectionist! Also, to know what to expect in future nocturnes.


Danzas Argentinas, Alberto Ginastera
Piano Sonata Hob. XVI: 34 in E Minor, Franz Joseph Haydn
Nocturne, Op. 15 No. 1 in F Major, Frédéric Chopin
Prelude, Op. 11 No. 4 in E Minor, Alexander Scriabin
Prelude and Fugue in G Major, Well-Tempered Clavier Vol. 2, Johann Sebastian Bach
#2233438 - 02/17/14 10:59 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: Roland The Beagle]  
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Originally Posted by Roland The Beagle
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker

What I see here is that your dotted quaver counts for five semiquavers. Maybe it should only count for 4.5 but let's just round up. It might be imprecise but it's written in such a way that the direction is clear. Unless I'm completely wrong and there's a good chance on that too.


I think you are probably right, from a logical and simple point of view. In fact, this is what I naturally did and played as I was learning it, until I looked at it closely at some point and went "wait a sec...". Of course, I want to know the Truth (capital T) because I'm a meticulous perfectionist! Also, to know what to expect in future nocturnes.

I'm not very familiar with this one, but it seems like you have a slightly different version than the Paderewski edition. You might want to check that one out. I didn't see any 4/3 rhythms or anything that wasn't perfectly vertically aligned. The offset note, for one, seems oddly placed, though I suppose as you rall., you could probably get away with it?


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#2233503 - 02/18/14 03:16 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: Derulux]  
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Originally Posted by Derulux

I'm not very familiar with this one, but it seems like you have a slightly different version than the Paderewski edition. You might want to check that one out. I didn't see any 4/3 rhythms or anything that wasn't perfectly vertically aligned. The offset note, for one, seems oddly placed, though I suppose as you rall., you could probably get away with it?


I checked out some other editions, and the two I had are indeed screwy. It's supposed to be like the first Sibelius clip. The Sibelius with the 4/3 is not truly poly-rhythmic, Sibelius just has a glitch in displaying it where it doesn't align. A dotted note is a division of 3 so it lines up just fine as a dotted quaver and a semiquaver over 6 sextuplet semiquavers. However, the second beat of that other example still doesn't make sense. There are two quavers in a beat and therefore the second quaver should align with the 4th sextuplet, not the 5th. Or, if it's 3 quavers as a triplet, then there is a missing quaver in the middle. It's screwy in every other edition on IMSLP. (I don't usually call stuff quavers and such, but I thought I'd learn these other names for funsies.)

I may have been utterly spoiled with my sheet music so far and these kinds of problems are more common than I've thus far experienced. I'm guessing most likely that it is three quavers in a triplet and the middle is left out because the phrase ended on the last one and the space is assumed to be a lift without a rest actually placed.

Oh, I thought I'd also throw in that these ornament patters on beat 3 and 1 make no sense:

http://i.imgur.com/AcTHl0h.png

I mean, they make musical sense, and I can play them, but they don't add up. There can be no eighth rest there, three triplet sixteenths and an eighth fills up a quarter. If they were all twice as fast, it would work, but then it would be three triplet 32nds and a sixteenth.

Yea, I'm guessing that I am new to romantic literature and this is pretty common, and no one cares how you play it.


Last edited by Roland The Beagle; 02/18/14 03:24 AM.

Danzas Argentinas, Alberto Ginastera
Piano Sonata Hob. XVI: 34 in E Minor, Franz Joseph Haydn
Nocturne, Op. 15 No. 1 in F Major, Frédéric Chopin
Prelude, Op. 11 No. 4 in E Minor, Alexander Scriabin
Prelude and Fugue in G Major, Well-Tempered Clavier Vol. 2, Johann Sebastian Bach
#2233509 - 02/18/14 03:44 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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Rubinstein plays it vertically aligned, and the Paderewski edition I looked at has them all vertically aligned, so I would probably recommend doing that. However, feel free to "screw around" with it as much as you want -- I'm not one to adhere strictly to anything! grin

Quote
Oh, I thought I'd also throw in that these ornament patters on beat 3 and 1 make no sense:

http://i.imgur.com/AcTHl0h.png

I mean, they make musical sense, and I can play them, but they don't add up. There can be no eighth rest there, three triplet sixteenths and an eighth fills up a quarter. If they were all twice as fast, it would work, but then it would be three triplet 32nds and a sixteenth.

Yea, I'm guessing that I am new to romantic literature and this is pretty common, and no one cares how you play it.

Not if you consider that what you are looking at are "triplets". Look at the LH: the 8th notes are in "assumed" triplets. Most-likely (and from what I see there), the RH is, too. So, those 16th note triplets are actually covering the 1st of 3 8th note triplet beats. The 2nd triplet would then be the G (or F in the second measure). And the 3rd triplet would be the 8th rest. wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#2233901 - 02/18/14 08:02 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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Triplets within triplets. LOL, that's just fantastic.


Danzas Argentinas, Alberto Ginastera
Piano Sonata Hob. XVI: 34 in E Minor, Franz Joseph Haydn
Nocturne, Op. 15 No. 1 in F Major, Frédéric Chopin
Prelude, Op. 11 No. 4 in E Minor, Alexander Scriabin
Prelude and Fugue in G Major, Well-Tempered Clavier Vol. 2, Johann Sebastian Bach
#2237504 - 02/25/14 04:39 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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Just sent my YouTube link to Joel. I've played the Nocturne better. I just don't think I'm going to get a better recording of it. Having the one fairly decent recording just kind of took the wind right out of me. Everything since has been worse. So, for good or bad, my submission is in.


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#2237532 - 02/25/14 05:43 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: dynamobt]  
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Originally Posted by dynamobt
Just sent my YouTube link to Joel. I've played the Nocturne better. I just don't think I'm going to get a better recording of it. Having the one fairly decent recording just kind of took the wind right out of me. Everything since has been worse. So, for good or bad, my submission is in.

And thank God the rest of us still have another three weeks !! laugh


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#2237534 - 02/25/14 05:46 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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Wow is it just three weeks? I keep thinking of it as one month, like the longest month ever. I did some work on it today and hopefully I don't end up submitting at the last minute!

#2237541 - 02/25/14 06:02 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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Last minute was what I was wanting to avoid. As usual, I had "technical difficulties' uploading my video to my computer. Windows Video Maker got caught in a loop. I had to start completely over. Only it was no big deal because I wasn't in a hurry. Otherwise, I'd have been in a panic. I use these technologies so infrequently. It's a huge relief to have this done. Well, I don't have to tell that to any of you. My sister is also visiting the week it is due. I didn't want to be working on my computer making the video let alone trying to still get a recording while she is here. So, I'm pretty happy right now.

Last edited by dynamobt; 02/25/14 06:03 PM.

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#2237568 - 02/25/14 06:55 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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Good job on getting it done ahead of schedule. I'm sure that must feel really good. I gave myself a running start for the same reason but I took a little detour before the finish line.

#2237687 - 02/25/14 11:07 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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The Nocturne I picked is one that I played for a recital many years ago and now that I'm a much better pianist I thought I'd give it another go and see what I can do. I retain my memory pretty well, so now I'm just working on some slow, deliberate practice for accuracy and speed to see how far I can get with it. I'll have tons of time next week while I'm visiting my parents, so I plan to step things up a bit then. We'll see where it ends up when it's time to record. wink


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#2237695 - 02/25/14 11:22 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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You guys, I'm having such a great time playing a waltz for something that is not a ballet class smile it's nice to have much more rhythmic freedom.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

Working on:
Beethoven, Diabelli Variations
Corigliano, Gazebo Dances
Beethoven, Trio in E flat Op. 70 no. 2
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#2237710 - 02/25/14 11:56 PM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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Pathbreaker Offline
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Pathbreaker  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Massachusetts
I know what you mean. I love the a minor waltz so much but I know I would not have bothered to learn it if not for this.

#2237773 - 02/26/14 03:20 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: JoelW]  
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FarmGirl Offline

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FarmGirl  Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Joined: Sep 2010
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Scottsdale, AZ
I have a burning question. My piece is Op 15 #3 has many pedal marks showing that I should lift them on the third beat (see below). When exactly do you lift the pedal within the third beat? Should I lift it before striking the 3rd beat? Right after I hit the 3rd beat? Could it be right before I go to the next measure? I am kind of using a mixed approach. For example, the accented B flat in the first measure seems to sound better if I clear the pedal before I play the note. But the second measure E, I am clearing the pedal after I play the note to try to make the melody line sing fluently without chopping them.. Am I doing it wrong? My friend thinks that I should clear the pedal completely on the 3rd beat as it's written. What do you think? My teacher seems to think my approach is ok but she told me that I have to be careful with the pedaling.. Any thought and advice?

http://www.waltercosand.com/CosandScores/Composers%20A-D/Chopin,%20Frederic/Find_by_Opus_Number/op15_3_Nocturnes.pdf


Pieces for this year to be decided soon.
#2237850 - 02/26/14 10:01 AM Re: Forum recital: Chopin nocturnes and waltzes [Re: FarmGirl]  
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Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 15,854
Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by FarmGirl
I have a burning question. My piece is Op 15 #3 has many pedal marks showing that I should lift them on the third beat (see below). When exactly do you lift the pedal within the third beat? Should I lift it before striking the 3rd beat? Right after I hit the 3rd beat? Could it be right before I go to the next measure? I am kind of using a mixed approach. For example, the accented B flat in the first measure seems to sound better if I clear the pedal before I play the note. But the second measure E, I am clearing the pedal after I play the note to try to make the melody line sing fluently without chopping them.. Am I doing it wrong? My friend thinks that I should clear the pedal completely on the 3rd beat as it's written. What do you think? My teacher seems to think my approach is ok but she told me that I have to be careful with the pedaling.. Any thought and advice?

http://www.waltercosand.com/CosandScores/Composers%20A-D/Chopin,%20Frederic/Find_by_Opus_Number/op15_3_Nocturnes.pdf


I would make sure everything connects with what I play on beat 3, but not hold the pedal through beat 3. That means slightly carrying over so everything is legato up to beat 3, but not have a space happening before beat 3. I'm saying this having not heard the options though.

What sounds best to you? What do they do on professional recordings?


private piano/voice teacher FT

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