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Life is too short! What I have discovered is that in allowing myself to eventually edit my recorded tracks, I fear mistakes less, and have learned to play *through* them, so that when they *do* happen in live performances, I don't get rattled about it, anymore! For me, giving myself that kind of permission (permission to avoid perfection in one take) turned out to be a kind of therapy that has actually caused me to calm down at the keyboard, and has improved my playing at those times when I *have* to play it once as best as possible. It's called, "Taking the long view." (That is *not* to say that, when I do each take, I *do not* strive for perfection, because I *do*, but I have tried to right-size my expectations about what really happens! ) I have also learned to develop a more nuanced definition of "perfection."
You know, that is very true about feeling better in recording. I wasn't having any issues this time around whereas for some of the Grieg pieces I really got flustered in the recording process and it kept getting worse because I was making more mistakes! But I knew I would have to do several takes and edit/splice them together, so I wasn't nervous at all.
I have discussed my philosophy about this rather thoroughly at other times in other threads both on the main boards and in Member Recordings, and if anyone is interested, I'll dig up a link. In the past, between my first and second mid-life crises, I worked with a musician/producer for a while, editing tracks, and it is such a part of me that I almost can't not do it, now. But when I post "finished" recordings, I want them to be something that 1) sounds good, and 2) will bear repeated listenings. But, I always edit lightly, meaning that I use whole chunks of three or four takes in order to keep the musical line and flow sane and cogent, and I strive to leave in enough wobbles, fluffs, and burbles to keep it honest. After all, I am *not* an accomplished pianist, though I love to play piano very much and I play piano A LOT! When I edit my recordings, I work very deliberately to not over-edit, and to arrive at a track that would be something that would come from me in performance on a good day. And I *do* have good days where I play this stuff for real people in real performances. That is what also keeps me honest and grounded about my abilities and those areas that I need to work on.
I appreciate hearing this - makes me feel a bit better for having to do that this recital as well. If I had the kind of time I need to dedicate to piano to play the way I want to play and the way I know I can play, then it wouldn't be necessary to edit. But I'm just not able to be at that level, unfortunately.
I came SO CLOSE to wanting to ask (i.e., beg) Andy to edit a couple of my own recordings (I lack the skills to do so) - but chose not to ask because I knew he had too much on his plate. So instead, I simply recorded my pieces over and over and over again last week until I came up with a take that had no more than two obvious flubbed notes and an "interpretation" I could live with (strange things would happen each time I turned the recorder on). Fortunately, I was able to make the time to do this (although I'm paying for it this week!!). I respect those here who simply sat down and played as brilliantly as they did with only a few attempts - and especially those of you who recorded "live" in front of a camera !! Wow !!!
And Andy - that was an eloquent post regarding your Mazurka journey !! It shows what PW is all about !!
After hearing the recital performances presented thus far, I'm inspired to learn more of these tricky little musical gems !!
I do not consider myself to be an "accomplished" pianist at all.
Well, your F minor mazurka is most definitely accomplished playing. As in, I would have happily bought a ticket to hear playing like that.
Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
As many of you know, I was one of those "lapsed pianists." Over the last three years, though, and especially since finding Piano World, I have been working hard to make up for lost time and to "get good." But there are many holes in my education and deficits in my pianism.
This was a surprise to me. What I thought I was hearing was a professional or professional-level student, who perhaps didn't have time to fully think through every single phrase or bring out every dynamic etc. to the full extent possible, due to the short-term nature of the project and not being able to drop everything else in one's life to focus on this, but still it's that level of playing. The A flat I felt was not as strong as the F minor but it still didn't shake my assumption that I could have been hearing a slightly underprepared professional. Certainly I have colleagues (other dance accompanists and church musicians) who couldn't have played them as well as you with only a few weeks prep time and other pressing projects.
You might consider taking lessons again, if you have room in your life. It sounds like you are excited about digging into pieces, have sufficient practice time and value feedback from others. I recently restarted lessons after several years of working as a pianist, and it was the best decision I could have possibly made.
About editing -- my recordings are edited too, specifically, spliced together from a couple of takes. When recording I usually do 5-10 takes, choose the best 2 and then edit together the best sections of those. If page turns are necessary then I pause for the page turns and edit them out later. I don't usually do more than a couple of edits for a short piece. I agree with you that the finished product should resemble a live performance on a good day, and I would never record anything that I couldn't give a good live performance of.
Last edited by hreichgott; 12/18/1312:42 PM.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
I have discussed my philosophy about this rather thoroughly at other times in other threads both on the main boards and in Member Recordings, and if anyone is interested, I'll dig up a link. In the past, between my first and second mid-life crises, I worked with a musician/producer for a while, editing tracks, and it is such a part of me that I almost can't not do it, now. But when I post "finished" recordings, I want them to be something that 1) sounds good, and 2) will bear repeated listenings. But, I always edit lightly, meaning that I use whole chunks of three or four takes in order to keep the musical line and flow sane and cogent, and I strive to leave in enough wobbles, fluffs, and burbles to keep it honest. After all, I am *not* an accomplished pianist, though I love to play piano very much and I play piano A LOT! When I edit my recordings, I work very deliberately to not over-edit, and to arrive at a track that would be something that would come from me in performance on a good day. And I *do* have good days where I play this stuff for real people in real performances. That is what also keeps me honest and grounded about my abilities and those areas that I need to work on.
Yes, absolutely! I did an edit in one of my two pieces. The security of knowing that a bloomer needn’t threaten the show allows much greater relaxation hence reduces the risk of error in the first place. I’ve got into the habit of doing a video so this introduces an extra complication in terms of knee position which sometimes varies so I might have to spend some time looking for ‘knee matching’. My next workaround will focus on knee masking. A thread focusing on editing would surely be useful other recital players?
I’ve got into the habit of doing a video so this introduces an extra complication in terms of knee position which sometimes varies so I might have to spend some time looking for ‘knee matching’.
A new wrinkle in the recording process !!
Quote
A thread focusing on editing would surely be useful other recital players?
[...] I agree with you that the finished product should resemble a live performance on a good day, and I would never record anything that I couldn't give a good live performance of.
Thank you so much for all of that, hreichgott! And ^^^ my sentiments EXACTLY!!!
And to keep the fun rolling in discussion, here is something about that nuanced definition of perfection I mentioned earlier, for those who are interested to head down the bunny trail with me. And so as to not spoil the flow of presentations, I'm putting it behind the curtain:
From a recent four hands practice session with a friend. He is the bass. I am the somewhat punchy tenor.
[...] I came SO CLOSE to wanting to ask (i.e., beg) Andy to edit a couple of my own recordings (I lack the skills to do so) - but chose not to ask because I knew he had too much on his plate. So instead, I simply recorded my pieces over and over and over again last week until I came up with a take that had no more than two obvious flubbed notes and an "interpretation" I could live with [...]
And this is *one* of the things that I admire so much about you, Carey, that as many times as we have shared recordings behind the scenes, and as many times as I have come to you as "the devil incarnate" to suggest a splicing of best takes, you have chosen to pick the best whole take with no edits. And I *know* you have Carnegie Hall and the Moscow Conservatory in your head when you play, and your performances are always so excellent, well thought out, and executed. Just had to say that...
Originally Posted by carey
[...] I respect those here who simply sat down and played as brilliantly as they did with only a few attempts - and especially those of you who recorded "live" in front of a camera !! Wow !!! [...] After hearing the recital performances presented thus far, I'm inspired to learn more of these tricky little musical gems !!
Musica71 - you must've asked to do this at the last minute because I saw someone else's name on it if I'm not mistaken. Fine job. I loved the beautiful sound and musical quality. Hats off to you pulling this our with a very short notice. I played this in a recital 20 years ago and would have taken me hours to bring it back to my mediocre performance level which is below your sight reading (lol).
Peter, loved your fluent and light touch.
Timmy, an excellent job as usual. Nice to see my follow ABFers are playing so well.
Derulux, bravo! you are a fine player. I loved the way you play - for the lack of word (not a native speaker of English), I like the orchestrated sound that you bring out from the entire instrument. I heard all the notes in a chords while you emphasized the melody lines. But all the notes were there, ringing together in the harmony, sometimes like a distant echo or murmur, sometimes like a swelling under current in the ocean. Thank you for sharing.
Wow, people! I'm really warmed to the core by the kind words. I do not consider myself to be an "accomplished" pianist at all. As many of you know, I was one of those "lapsed pianists." Over the last three years, though, and especially since finding Piano World, I have been working hard to make up for lost time and to "get good." But there are many holes in my education and deficits in my pianism. These Mazurkas were such a hole. As to education and deficits, Pogerelich and Minnesota Marty are especially keen on them, and I am indebted to them for their unvarnished critiques and helps over time, such as can be done over the Internet by means of judicious typed words. So, since Poly would not permit me to write a "sufficient" (imho) introductory explanation for my submissions, I present them to you here :
When Poly blew onto the scene with this particular e-cital idea, and he said, "Have them on my desk in one month," I thought, "Oh, for cry eye! Are you kidding me? One month?!? It takes me *at least* a year to get anything to the point where I'm ready to share it." But I was up for the challenge. Then, wonder of wonders, he relented, giving me the precious gift of time.
So, what to do? "What is this thing called 'Mazurka'?" So, of course I went to two other of my closest PW friends, ChopinAddict and Carey, and said, "What should I play?" ChopinAddict, that dear librarian-hearted resource person, thought to ask the "second" question (reference librarians will know what I mean by that... ) "What do you want? Major or minor? Happy or sad? Fast or slow?" Gosh. "I think I want simple." LOL! Actually, I think I asked for happy, so she sent me off with a few ideas. Then, Carey, who always gently pushes and pulls me to challenge myself and NOT take foolish interpretive liberties, sent me some ideas.
I pulled a couple of sheets off of IMSLP and read through them and that's when the fireworks of epiphanation went off inside of me. When I was young, my dad and I would play together the Dvorak Slavic Dances, four hands, and we had such fun! I miss playing those. When I heard the sound of "Mazurka," it took me back to that time. It dawned on me that, for *me*, anyway, in the way I was hearing them in my mind's ear, these were like "solo Slavic dances." I love the sound of them. And so now, thanks to Polyphonist, I have a new mania.
So, I eventually landed on the four (two more to come later in the recital). And I worked really hard at them. My wife goes to work at 6:30 a.m., and by 6:35 I was on the piano bench. Except for a few times when I had other musical deadlines to meet, I played through all four every day, multiple times, sometimes multiple times a day. I'd take one and chew on it and practice hands separately, I'd practice very slowly and deliberately hands together, drill some sections, then try some expression practice and try them against the metronome at speed and crash and burn. Behind the scenes, I'd complain to Carey, saying there was NO WAY I could play 7-4 at speed, and besides "Presto, ma non troppo" means fast, but not too fast, so despite the m.m., I was taking Chopin at his direction. So, when Carey says:
Originally Posted by carey
[...] Andy - These have come a LONG way since your first readings - [...]
...he means he heard practice recordings at about mid-point, and that I was playing a D nat. in the opening section of 7-3, instead of Db! And stuff like that! And also, I want to thank Carey, because when I asked some deeper, more pointed questions about this thing called "Mazurka," he sent me a link to this paper:
...which *really* started illuminating things for me. So, anyway, over the course of the months, suffice it to say that I had many cognitive leaps of the kind that come when you focus on something really hard, and then put it aside to rest for a minute or a night or a week, then pick it back up and go at it again. I mean, about two weeks ago, as I was getting ready to think about recording, and, because I am a *reader* and not a *memorizer*, and because I was trying to keep track of pedaling and articulations and dynamics and such, the words that came out of my mouth were, "Honey? Don't we have different colored highlighters somewhere in the house?" (They were in a desk in the basement.)
So, I recorded and edited my submission on Sunday. "EDITED?!?," I hear you ask. Yes, edited. I have discussed my philosophy about this rather thoroughly at other times in other threads both on the main boards and in Member Recordings, and if anyone is interested, I'll dig up a link. In the past, between my first and second mid-life crises, I worked with a musician/producer for a while, editing tracks, and it is such a part of me that I almost can't not do it, now. But when I post "finished" recordings, I want them to be something that 1) sounds good, and 2) will bear repeated listenings. But, I always edit lightly, meaning that I use whole chunks of three or four takes in order to keep the musical line and flow of it sane and cogent, and I strive to leave in enough wobbles, fluffs, and burbles to keep it honest. After all, I am *not* an accomplished pianist, though I love to play piano very much and I play piano A LOT! When I edit my recordings, I work very deliberately to not over-edit, and to arrive at a track that would be something that would come from me in performance on a good day. And I *do* have good days where I play this stuff for real people in real performances. That is what also keeps me honest and grounded about my abilities and those areas that I need to work on.
You will really see what I mean about fluffs and wobbles when you hear Op. 67, No. 1, the playing of which is Hugely Big Fudge in many places because it was *Not Ready For Prime Time* and in which I missed and skipped whole trills until such time as I can get them to come out from under my fingers (I need more than three months for that one! And even then, I am not sure what the trick is to playing them at speed. But I am sure Carey will push and pull me to it. ).
So, that is my story, just so you know. And my wife, God love her, on Sunday morning before vacating the house so I could record, and after enduring an evening of frantic and pointed rehearsal Saturday night, said that she had Mazurkas going through her head all night long. My true love. Surely we are one.
I, too, have been enjoying these performances tremendously!!! I love the passion, humor, thought, feeling and care that have gone into these offerings! Like gandalff, I would like to comment on each one, and hope to do so. Very, very wonderful work, everyone! Thank you so much for sharing!!!
--Andy
Wow, you certainly worked your arse off, and it shows. I love the color-coordinated highlighter efforts.. an especially nice touch! It really goes to show that even someone who plays as well as you do must often take quite a bit of effort to get the piece up to that level of performance. Dedication apparent; results achieved. Bravo, sir. Very well done.
Originally Posted by Farmgirl
Derulux, bravo! you are a fine player. I loved the way you play - for the lack of word (not a native speaker of English), I like the orchestrated sound that you bring out from the entire instrument. I heard all the notes in a chords while you emphasized the melody lines. But all the notes were there, ringing together in the harmony, sometimes like a distant echo or murmur, sometimes like a swelling under current in the ocean. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you very much for your kind words. I tend to be obsessively critical of the things I do, so this was very nice to hear. Thank you.
Last edited by Derulux; 12/18/1302:31 PM.
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Thank you everyone for your generous comments on my Op 17 No 4 submission, and for the good wishes to my mother. I'm visiting with her right now and so haven't yet had a proper chance to listen to everyone's submissions, but am looking forward to it!
My recording was done on a poor quality digital piano. I'd hoped to be able to rerecord it here on a better piano but did not get the chance. As for the piece itself, it was my first time working on a Chopin mazurka and also my first experience with working with rubato so extensively. Dire tonic helped me immensely in preparing my piece by listening to many practice recordings and giving me helpful feedback.
Are fioritura the groups of little notes? So difficult to get them sounding light and improvised. The other most difficult part of this piece was the part in the middle (Page 3...can't recall bar numbers atm) where there are a total of eight measures featuring a couple of grace notes and then repeated Ds in the RH. That was by far the most difficult part of the piece for me to be able to play, despite how simplistic it looks in the score.
Thanks Polyphonist and Derulux for your efforts in setting up the recital!
Once again, superb playing from everyone. Derulux, I can’t imagine how you deliver a performance like that on the eve of the recital. It’s a crime that we don’t get to hear you on a fine grand piano. Even so…
Thank you for those kind words on my Op7 No 1. Re whimsical: there is a "scherz." marking in, I think, bar 4, so hopefully the lightness is appropriate. LIke all Chopin the mazurkas reward continued study and experimentation. I have never thought of my ornamentation as being light - it usually feels heavy and clumpy, so your comment was very gratifying.
I'm more familiar with this applying to voice, but I suppose that would be accurate. It looks like it means the same thing, based on context, but I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to application of foreign words..
I hope your mom's doing better.
Originally Posted by dire tonic
Once again, superb playing from everyone. Derulux, I can’t imagine how you deliver a performance like that on the eve of the recital. It’s a crime that we don’t get to hear you on a fine grand piano. Even so…
Thank you! It almost completely fell apart in the "tarantella-like" con anima section when the G-sharp/A-flat (thread shout-out ) stuck on a repeated note (probably the most audible of my mistakes), but I'm glad it held together.
A decent grand would have been lovely. If I ever get the opportunity, I will re-record and/or perform something else to post up. Thank you again for the kind comments; I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)
For me, giving myself that kind of permission (permission to avoid perfection in one take) turned out to be a kind of therapy that has actually caused me to calm down at the keyboard, and has improved my playing at those times when I *have* to play it once as best as possible. 
It's called, "Taking the long view." (That is *not* to say that, when I do each take, I *do not* strive for perfection, because I *do*, but I have tried to right-size my expectations about what really happens! 
) I have also learned to develop a more nuanced definition of "perfection." 
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Joplinbadgetiny.jpg)
" 
And stuff like that! ![[Linked Image]](http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd411/AndyCinnamonbear/Scores/ChopinMazurka7-3Illustration.jpg)
