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Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197498
12/14/13 01:50 PM
12/14/13 01:50 PM
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Orz Offline
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Originally Posted by Jolly
Originally Posted by Orz
Seeing all the talks here I got really curious as how good the Cunningham piano really is, I really hope that we can have good quality pianos in a more affordable price range…
So yesterday I called my old college mate who lives in Philly now to try the Cunningham pianos for me and give me some idea as what they are like. Surprisingly, he said he had tried them already while he was shopping for his current piano(He has a Yamaha GC1 now). According to him, the action is little too heavy for him, and they sound like “mellower sounding Samick” which he did not like. However, he did say the Cunningham pianos are the best looking pianos he has ever seen in the price range.

I guess people simply have different preference. I have never played a Samick, so I still have no idea what the Cunningham sounds like. I should give them a try if I visit philly!


The action can be lightened, if you wish. The tone? yes, it is a mellow tone and you may not like it. If you do, though, it will be hard for you to find anything as well built for the money. Many people think they are a Hailun stencil, when that is just not the case. They are their own unique piano.

By all means, do try them and form your own opinion.


For me even the yamaha grands feel too heavy... I love the steinway touch which is very light and smooth. I asked the tech who tunes my father's yamaha if its possible to make the yamaha feel like the steinway, he said its possible but will cost a lot of money...

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Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Orz] #2197508
12/14/13 02:07 PM
12/14/13 02:07 PM
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Posts: 14,245
Louisiana
Jolly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Orz
Originally Posted by Jolly
Originally Posted by Orz
Seeing all the talks here I got really curious as how good the Cunningham piano really is, I really hope that we can have good quality pianos in a more affordable price range…
So yesterday I called my old college mate who lives in Philly now to try the Cunningham pianos for me and give me some idea as what they are like. Surprisingly, he said he had tried them already while he was shopping for his current piano(He has a Yamaha GC1 now). According to him, the action is little too heavy for him, and they sound like “mellower sounding Samick” which he did not like. However, he did say the Cunningham pianos are the best looking pianos he has ever seen in the price range.

I guess people simply have different preference. I have never played a Samick, so I still have no idea what the Cunningham sounds like. I should give them a try if I visit philly!


The action can be lightened, if you wish. The tone? yes, it is a mellow tone and you may not like it. If you do, though, it will be hard for you to find anything as well built for the money. Many people think they are a Hailun stencil, when that is just not the case. They are their own unique piano.

By all means, do try them and form your own opinion.


For me even the yamaha grands feel too heavy... I love the steinway touch which is very light and smooth. I asked the tech who tunes my father's yamaha if its possible to make the yamaha feel like the steinway, he said its possible but will cost a lot of money...


You may or may not like the tone, or you may want a more expensive piano, but the GH series Ritmuller has a nice, responsive light action.

If you are looking for a more expensive piano, I've seen several good deals on Charles Walter. A CW190 is a very nice, American sound piano, for usually much less money than a Steinway or M&H.


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Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197510
12/14/13 02:08 PM
12/14/13 02:08 PM
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Jolly,

Just trying to cut through some of the chatter here.

Quote
First off, let me publicly state, that if you want a level of concern and service, second to nobody in the industry, I recommend Rich and the folks at Cunningham Piano Company. First class. Period. Rich probably deserves combat pay after dealing with me . . . If I would have had her in the Cunningham store, I would had them lighten the action and possibly iron the hammmers just a tad. We might have had a different outcome. Which is the beauty of working with a store like Cunningham's...A full service store with great techs in the building can accommodate requests like that.


Despite your "intimate" knowledge of Cunningham's, have you ever stepped inside the store?

Mike


smoke 'em if you got 'em
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197528
12/14/13 02:49 PM
12/14/13 02:49 PM
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Louisiana
Jolly Offline OP
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Mike,

You're not talking, you're not conversing, you're not interested in what I have to say.

You're just nit-picking and looking for a fight.

Therefore, I revert back to my old Usenet days...

<PLONK>


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Over 1.4M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197645
12/14/13 07:24 PM
12/14/13 07:24 PM
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Los Angeles
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I visited Cunningham Piano when I was passing through Philly on the drive back to Los Angeles, and I agree with the general sentiment here.

I played one of the Cunningham grands immediately after playing on a Bosendorfer concert grand. While that is unfair to the Cunningham, I still found that it was pleasant to play on. I think it was a 5'8" or 5'10" model.

And Rich is nothing but welcoming, passionate, and a fountain of knowledge of the piano. Sure, he's there to sell a product as well so he can stay in business, but his approach to salesmanship is qualitatively different than most salesmen you will encounter, in ANY industry.

Mike, your completely unsubstantiated attacks on Cunningham Piano are doing nothing but bringing the folks who've had a good experience with him and his pianos out of the woodwork to defend him. If you have a vendetta against him, or are competing with him, your best course of action would be to pull the shovel out of the hole you're digging and go home. No disrespect intended smile


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Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Sam Rose] #2197652
12/14/13 07:44 PM
12/14/13 07:44 PM
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Posts: 1,004
Germany
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I've never played a Cunningham, but I enjoyed reading this thread, with one anti-Chinese buffoon acting the troll, and people replying to it.

If the Cunningham reminds of a Mason&Hamlin (which I have played), then that's a compliment. I liked the Mason&Hamlin I played.
So if Cunningham pianos come in the price range of Yamaha C or CX, and with built-in silent systems, then my opinion is that they should not be discarded just because they are Chinese.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: patH] #2197653
12/14/13 07:50 PM
12/14/13 07:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,245
Louisiana
Jolly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by patH
I've never played a Cunningham, but I enjoyed reading this thread, with one anti-Chinese buffoon acting the troll, and people replying to it.

If the Cunningham reminds of a Mason&Hamlin (which I have played), then that's a compliment. I liked the Mason&Hamlin I played.
So if Cunningham pianos come in the price range of Yamaha C or CX, and with built-in silent systems, then my opinion is that they should not be discarded just because they are Chinese.


Let me clear up a little misunderstanding...when I referred to the Cunningham as the M&H of oriental pianos, I was talking about build, not tone. The build of the Cunningham is more robust than any other Asian piano of its size...the beefiness of the piano reminds of the way M&H's are overbuilt to last for the long haul.

The piano doesn't sound like a M&H. It has its own voice. One you may like. Or not.


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Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2197718
12/14/13 10:21 PM
12/14/13 10:21 PM
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Mike Carr Offline
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty

"If you're shopping in the entry-level price range and a piano with a laminated soundboard meets your musical and other expectations, there's no reason not to purchase it."

Mr. Carr,

I happen to agree with this quote from Larry Fine. It is one of the reasons that I am unconcerned about the manufacturing process used in the construction of the Cunningham soundboards. My assessment of these pianos are based on my eyes, ears, and hands as a pianist. It is an assessment based not on price, but rather on the response of the piano as a musical instrument.

I completely agree with Jolly's assessment.



MM
If you are agreeing with Larry in the sense that a Cunningham is an entry level piano, I would tend to disagree and put it somewhere above that, given it’s a house stencil made by Hailun. A closer match to entry level Chinese/laminated would be the new Weber line.

If Larry is saying that only entry level Chinese pianos have laminated soundboard because the better ones have solid spruce he’s probably reflecting on the market realities of laminated soundboards and not their musicality. Well aware of these realities, manufactures tend to hide the nature of 3-plies glued together behind terms like “A” class spruce, referring to outer plies as meniscus coating, etc.

Unfortunately the market is more worried about where a piano comes from rather than its sound, which, like it or not, would probably (no one has mentoned price yet) put Cunningham comps more in the 10-20 year used Japanese range than a new RX.

Mike


smoke 'em if you got 'em
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197726
12/14/13 10:40 PM
12/14/13 10:40 PM
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Karl Watson Offline
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Curiouser and curiouser -

What next, "Plan Nine from Outer Space" ?

Karl Watson
Staten Island, NY

Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197730
12/14/13 10:48 PM
12/14/13 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jolly
Mike,

You're not talking, you're not conversing, you're not interested in what I have to say.

You're just nit-picking and looking for a fight.

Therefore, I revert back to my old Usenet days...

<PLONK>


Jolly,

So, that's a no, you've never set foot in Cunningham Piano? Why act like you had? I'll be more than happy to listen. I'm only asking because you've gone out of your way to question my credibility.

Mike







smoke 'em if you got 'em
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197760
12/14/13 11:39 PM
12/14/13 11:39 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Carr - your credibility has been in question long before this thread was started. The fact that you are unaware that the RX line has been discontinued is only one example. Your reference to the Cunningham as a "stencil" is another example of your lack of knowledge of the market.

I have no clue if Jolly has ever been to Cunningham Pianos, however, his communication and guidance from Mr. Galassini can not be discounted. It does not need to be face to face to receive valuable information. Since you have never played a Cunningham, I would assume that you haven't been there either. Using your reasoning, you are left without a valid opinion.

This thread is about the sound of the piano, and not about the individual bits and pieces that you seem to hold so dear. Yet, you disclaim that very practice. Not only is your logic flawed, your reading comprehension is faulty.

Based on my experience playing both the Kawai RX-2BLK and the Cunningham Parlour Grand, my choice would be the Cunningham. I would also choose it over the GX2-BLK.



Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2197771
12/15/13 12:07 AM
12/15/13 12:07 AM
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Mike Carr Offline
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Quote
Carr - your credibility has been in question long before this thread was started. The fact that you are unaware that the RX line has been discontinued is only one example. Your reference to the Cunningham as a "stencil" is another example of your lack of knowledge of the market.

I have no clue if Jolly has ever been to Cunningham Pianos, however, his communication and guidance from Mr. Galassini can not be discounted. It does not need to be face to face to receive valuable information. Since you have never played a Cunningham, I would assume that you haven't been there either. Using your reasoning, you are left without a valid opinion.

This thread is about the sound of the piano, and not about the individual bits and pieces that you seem to hold so dear. Yet, you disclaim that very practice. Not only is your logic flawed, your reading comprehension is faulty.

Based on my experience playing both the Kawai RX-2BLK and the Cunningham Parlour Grand, my choice would be the Cunningham. I would also choose it over the GX2-BLK.


MM,

Quote
For comparative shopping purposes I would shop the Cunningham vs. the RX2
I was referring to Jolly's quote, not Kawai's current line, though it shouldn't be hard to find a few "new" rx's lying around. If you have your own definition of stencil, fine, I'm comfortable with mine. Is this your proof of my lack of knowledge? Did you already forget who had to tell you about Cunningham's, er, engineered soundboard?

This isn't about my flawed logic, it's about Jolly acting like he'd been to Cunningham's when he hadn't and an over the top
infomercial that seems to have gone awry.

Nice try, though.

Mike



smoke 'em if you got 'em
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Mike Carr] #2197774
12/15/13 12:17 AM
12/15/13 12:17 AM
Joined: May 2012
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Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Originally Posted by Mike Carr
Did you already forget who had to tell you about Cunningham's, er, engineered soundboard?


Did you forget that I don't give a flyin' flip about how the Cunningham soundboard is made?

What I care about is how it sounds!

Of that, I am well aware.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2197779
12/15/13 12:35 AM
12/15/13 12:35 AM
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Mike Carr Offline
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted by Mike Carr
Did you already forget who had to tell you about Cunningham's, er, engineered soundboard?


Did you forget that I don't give a flyin' flip about how the Cunningham soundboard is made?

What I care about is how it sounds!

Of that, I am well aware.


MM,

When you bold all your letters like that, does it mean you're yelling? Or just a little bit upset?

Mike



smoke 'em if you got 'em
Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197784
12/15/13 12:49 AM
12/15/13 12:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,886
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
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"...This thread is about the sound of the piano, and not about the individual bits and pieces that you seem to hold so dear. Yet, you disclaim..."

Marty, and Guys, this thread is about people that are so easy to bait that Mike just can't help but keep trolling. If the fish would quit biting, the angler would pack up the tackle box for the day. It resembles one of those highly mannered comic/dramas, almost like Kabuki theater or even a Punch and Judy show. Or Klingon opera. Or a sitcom. I'm only sorry that so many people's feelings have been injured--- but in another way, it's kind of fascinating. Mike punches the keys, the well-known tempered tones sound forth, the well-worn characters' personae pop up to respond as they always do--- it seems that no one realizes it's as automatic as [1] the pendulum ticks, [2] the hour chimes, [3] the cuckoo chirps, and [4] it's a minute later.

I do not believe Rich's or Cunningham's reputation is being damaged--- it can take care of itself, and it has plenty of momentum. So far, I've never had the pleasure to play The Cunningham, though I'm curious. The idea of a real piano with computer, software, controllers for key and pedal and play/record/print and monitor built right in, at a good price--- it really sounded kind of great. Great, like, a few years down the road, that's the way all the makers are to be doing it. But I don't know how it plays, don't know how it sounds, don't have an opinion. Cunningham's reputation for providing really good pre-sale prep is admirable, and I wish that was the nosecone of the rocket that's going to blast off from Philly and--- ummm---ummm--- I was trying to say something about distribution (by technician equipped rockets), or maybe it was about taking over the world, or at least the market segment.

Anyway, this badminton game would be more fun if people did not, so predictably, take themselves Sooooooo seriously. So, that's my advice: have more fun.


Clef

Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2197799
12/15/13 02:01 AM
12/15/13 02:01 AM
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This discussion about laminated soundboards got me interested.

I found this thread here with a very detailed response from Del Fandrich about it:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...1/topic/009731/Number/2/site_id/1#import

In summary, I believe what he was saying is using it is very easy to screw up a piano using laminate soundboards if you don't design the rest of the piano correctly. But if you do spend the time to redesign the piano to take advantage of laminate soundboards, they could actually be better. However, to do all of that, it's actually more expensive than to use solid spruce. So unless Hailun/Cunningham designed the rest of the piano to work with the laminate soundboards, it could be a liability.


Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jeff Clef] #2198100
12/15/13 06:17 PM
12/15/13 06:17 PM
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Dear Jeff Clef:

Much as I appreciate your take on the foregoing, I can't agree that to ignore the infantile and ridiculous, allowing it to pass without comment, is the easy solution to the disruption caused by a rogue member.

Behaviour that is best described as mental will not go away by just ignoring it. Jolly and Marty, to name only two, are too well-respected by the forum to be forced to endure abuse.

But, at the end of the day, you are quite right about Rich, Cunningham Piano Coy. and their revived "Matchless" piano. I quite prefer an approach that combines honesty, kindness and gratitude that an instrument of its quality has been made available for such an affordable price.

Karl Watson
Staten Island, NY

Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2198138
12/15/13 07:17 PM
12/15/13 07:17 PM
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Northern VA, U.S.
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Don't forget the wonderful "ignore" button that this site features.

You needn't be forced to see what trolls post.


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Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: ClsscLib] #2198143
12/15/13 07:25 PM
12/15/13 07:25 PM
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Posts: 14,245
Louisiana
Jolly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ClsscLib
Don't forget the wonderful "ignore" button that this site features.

You needn't be forced to see what trolls post.


You sir, are right.

Thank you.


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Re: The piano I didn't buy, but maybe you should. [Re: Jolly] #2198206
12/15/13 09:26 PM
12/15/13 09:26 PM
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San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
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Karl, thanks for the kind words. If I could just clear one little thing up:

"...I can't agree that to ignore the infantile and ridiculous, allowing it to pass without comment, is the easy solution to the disruption caused by a rogue member..."

I don't think anyone who has tried holding back a retort or an angry action--- especially when provoked--- would describe it as 'easy.' Your feelings are understandable; I'm not above throwing gasoline on the bonfire, myself. Except--- I've learned that it can be hotter than I was expecting, and the fire will die down anyway without fuel--- leaving our eyebrows and nose hairs where nature put them.

You are quite right, that sometimes we have to give our all when it's necessary to smite the wicked. It seems to me that both responses have their place--- and, with that, I think I've 'seemed' about enough. Got to practice.


Clef

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