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..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. #2195572
12/10/13 02:48 PM
12/10/13 02:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 625
Germany
B
BerndAB Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
BerndAB  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 625
Germany
Anywhere once upon a time I read about the C-227 models because of their (as said-so) often warm sound characteristics, that they had earned the nickname

"...the most gay Steinway"...

Wo said that first? Is this characterization in general right?

To my knowledge the C models are only built in Hamburg. Were there once C grands built in New York? If yes, are there differences in the sound characteristics?


Pls excuse any bad english.

Cent. D Sept 1877

Working on Berceuse op.57
Nocturnes op. 9-1,3 15-1,2,3 27-2 32-1,2
Going Home (Mark Knopfler)

There is a shy hope to perform every nocturne at any fine night coming.

The invention of finest music prov. ended on Oct 17, 1849.
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Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195576
12/10/13 02:56 PM
12/10/13 02:56 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,815
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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terminaldegree  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,815
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by BerndAB

To my knowledge the C models are only built in Hamburg. Were there once C grands built in New York?


Yes, they were built in NY and I've played a few. There aren't very many to be found here in the US, and those that exist are quite old. I played a partially restored one in Philadelphia a couple of years ago, but not enough of them in good playing condition to make a generalization.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195602
12/10/13 04:20 PM
12/10/13 04:20 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Hi Bernd,

I'm the very proud owner of a 1906 NY-C. It was totally rebuilt in 2007-08. I have never heard that particular "nickname" for the instruments, but hey, why not?

They are very rare, indeed. Even in Europe they are few and far between. Mine is the only NY example that I have ever played and the few Hamburg instruments I've encountered (in Europe) have been much newer.

Mine has the signature tonal characteristics of the NY built instruments, rather than the German. In my home environment, albeit in a very large room, it sounds like a D without the orchestra cutting volume. Though, it could still be called a "stage cannon," but at a slightly smaller caliber.

The thing that I appreciate is that the action is the same as the D and that 'touch' is apparent when playing. The bass is D-lightful and nothing is lost by the shorter length.

I first played it after the rebuild, so I cannot compare the differences of the before/after. The sound is characteristic of the Steinways from the "golden era" which are in top playing condition.

If we use the latest Hallmark translation for the term used in Deck the Halls, it certainly is "fun!"

BTW - I have named it Butch.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195682
12/10/13 06:40 PM
12/10/13 06:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,089
J
joe80 Offline
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joe80  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,089
The C seems to be Steinways least popular model, sadly, because I think it's better than the B. Steinway Hall in the UK don't stock them, but will get one on special order if you want one. They are still quite popular in Germany.

They do have a beautiful warm sound, all the characteristics of the Steinway D if you like, but with a reduced footprint and reduced volume. The D is really built for projection in a large hall, and the C has a similar voiceprint, if you like but it's more manageable in a small space.

Personally I think the C is one of the strongest and most versatile models, and I think the B became the most popular model because New York ceased production of the A and C for many years, and the price of the B is significantly less than the C.

If you think about other makes of piano - and in particular Yamaha and Kawai, people who want to go for the larger instruments will tend to go for the C7 or RX/SK 7 before they go for a C6/SK6 because the tone is really so much better, but the footprint isn't so much larger (OK it makes a difference in many situations I know, but it's only 6 inches on the tail), and with the Japanese pianos, the price difference between the two models means that the choice isn't so much of a financial jump. With Steinway, if you're buying new, you really have to swallow hard to put down that extra money for the C, but if you've got that extra money, I'd say go for it. The only thing is that an A or B may be easier to sell, should you have to in the future, but I never think about pianos as investments - their financial value is always far less than their musical value anyway!

Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195723
12/10/13 07:55 PM
12/10/13 07:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 625
Germany
B
BerndAB Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
BerndAB  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 625
Germany
Let me say Thank You! for your impressions and comments.

Also I very seldom came across a C model, no single one in any stage use or in a private surrounding but all of them in Steinway dealerships. Last one I've seen is offered in Düsseldorf for something above 106.000 Euros (a D size for around 138k and a B size for around 92k).

From my internet activities I am in contact with a german concert pianist and professor of piano playing who owns one - his smallest piano of three, as he also owns a Steinway D and a Bechstein concert grand of D size. His two Steinway grands are together in one room, to the purpose if he has a colleague invited and they play four hand.

The C is the last model designed by Theo Steinway in 1886. He derived the Model C from the Model D (of 1884) by shortening. The new C was the first parlor grand size with 88 keys - the precedessors of the Style II semi concert grand all had 85 keys only, but were also built of five string fields, their design mainly done by his bro Henry Jr. and father Heinrich Engelhard.

The precedessor design was in many many points after points modified by Theo, he built in the Cupola plate with covered pinblock, he built in the duplex scale, he changed the housing to the rim concept of laminated strips, and he stretched the length of the PG II to ca. 225cm.

..but it was still the piano of the two Henrys..

The PG II was designed very cost intensive, and so the savvy Theo hated the design of his late bro... and tried to leave his personal footprints also with the design of the parlor grand size of seven feet. And at last, with the consent of bro William - he kicked away the old design of the PG II and did a wholly new one: the still actual C model, derived from his D model by shortening.

When Theo was finished with the design works, he retired home to Brunswick, Germany, and never again travelled back to the U.S.

C model - yes, it is with the same mechanism like the D, and so it has the advantage of five string fields, above of the only four ones of the smaller models S to B. The C so is the substantially much stronger piano compared with the B.

Once I imagined that a C would be useful only if I were a concert pianist at home, would like to practice with same hammer weights and same mechanism, but if it might lack space in my home. ...

The funny word of "the most gay Steinway" (..) kept me off a little bit from the wish to try one, eventually to buy one. (I have no personal objections against the guys with an orientation - as we say in Germany - "to the other side of the river"...)
<BG>

And I'd like a warm full resonant tone. Next time I'll try one.


Pls excuse any bad english.

Cent. D Sept 1877

Working on Berceuse op.57
Nocturnes op. 9-1,3 15-1,2,3 27-2 32-1,2
Going Home (Mark Knopfler)

There is a shy hope to perform every nocturne at any fine night coming.

The invention of finest music prov. ended on Oct 17, 1849.
Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195810
12/10/13 10:56 PM
12/10/13 10:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 634
Columbus, GA
S
S. Phillips Offline
500 Post Club Member
S. Phillips  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 634
Columbus, GA
I'm just hanging the new hammers on my C. I'll let you know if it seems especially cheerful after I'm done.


Sally Phillips
Owner/ Technician
Piano Perfect, LLC
Steinway & Sons Pianos
Columbus, GA
New Steinway, Boston and Essex pianos
www.steinwaypiano.com
Acoustic Piano Technical Consultant - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
http://www.pianobuyer.com/current-issue/07a-should-i-have-my-piano-rebuilt.html
Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195903
12/11/13 08:11 AM
12/11/13 08:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,089
J
joe80 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,089
I've actually never heard a Steinway C described as gay, but both my Bluthners are gay. How do I know? Well, because they are elegant, strong, classy, exceptionally expressive, and generally fabulous. It's quite good, because if they weren't gay I might come downstairs one day to find they'd produced a load of uprights or E-Klaviers while I wasn't looking. A piano isn't just for Christmas.....

Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195907
12/11/13 08:20 AM
12/11/13 08:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,206
Rocky Mountains
R
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014
rnaple  Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014

R

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,206
Rocky Mountains
Come on people. We're only playing with the changing of the meaning of a word in recent times.
It was a perfectly good word that was used frequently. Even girls given that name. But not anymore.


Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195910
12/11/13 08:35 AM
12/11/13 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
B
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Bob Newbie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
How true.. parents today wouldn't think of naming their son Leslie..yet there was Leslie Howard, the young fellow on Antiques Roadshow, named Leslie also..and a movie character
named "Gay" Lawrence (aka the falcon George Sanders)..no author today would think of using that as a name for a character in a film..

Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: BerndAB] #2195957
12/11/13 09:58 AM
12/11/13 09:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,089
J
joe80 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,089
Yeah, but in 2013 the word gay is widely accepted to be interchangeable with homosexual, and has been used in that context since the late 19th Century indeed. Perhaps it arose because gay people were known to be more extrovert, more colourful.

The word gay was used widely to mean colourful, happy, bright, joyful up until the middle of the 20th Century but that use has fallen by the wayside. The times of the changing of the use of the word gay are not so recent.

I'm not sure about parents naming their son Leslie these days, perhaps Lesley wouldn't be used.... Also, Nikita has now become a woman's name, perhaps in part to the misinformed TV show, and the Elton John song that we all knew was about a man, but the general public didn't clock at the time.... and Valerie has been a woman's name for quite some time.

Why is it still not a perfectly good word? It's a perfectly good word for gay people, and so what if the meaning has changed? We have other words meaning what gay used to mean. Things change all the time. It's not so important.

I don't know any women called Gay, but I do know a few Gaynors.


Re: ..."The most gay Steinway"...?.. [Re: Bob Newbie] #2196129
12/11/13 03:40 PM
12/11/13 03:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589
California
T
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member
Thrill Science  Offline
500 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589
California
Originally Posted by Bob Newbie
How true.. parents today wouldn't think of naming their son Leslie


I'd think he was a rotating speaker!


Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.

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