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#2192915 - 12/05/13 01:02 PM Casio PX-850 versus AP-650  
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Forestman Offline
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Hello first time posting here, and beginner piano player.

Right now in Costco Canada, the Celviano AP-650 is the same price as the PX-850, $1099. I'm looking to buy a piano in this price range. I've read some threads here and there but I still cannot decipher whose piano is better, I heard that the tonal decay for the AP-650 is not good, too artificial even, but only heard good things about the PX-850, and I like the sound of the PX-850 judging from the online videos, there are too few independent AP-650 reviews to be honest. Maybe the $500 reduction on the AP-650 is too good to be true...

They share most their specs, key-action and all, but same price, which has the better piano sound?

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#2192946 - 12/05/13 02:11 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Assuming there is no music store near you, where you can try them, the best thing is probably to view online videos. Even though they are subjective and even though they come from Casio themselves, you can always listen to the playing and judge thereby.

Beware though, that because the sound is usually recorded from the internal sound engine of the pianos, you will not hear the loud key click, which unfortunately is a companion of most if not all Casio pianos.

You will probably get different opinions from users here, who have experienced both of these two pianos, and will either have to take the average of them or judge for yourself.

My guess from what I've read is that they are not so different in sound. The pianolike sound of the PX850 comes partly from how the cabinet of it is made and the AP-650 has a better cabinet, if my memory serves me correctly.


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#2192947 - 12/05/13 02:15 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2193007 - 12/05/13 04:21 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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The big thing about Casios is their common features. The controls in all their models are standardized, the action is identical from the PX150 to the AP650. The sounds on the 650 will be the same as for the PX850 and possibly across the whole ranger. But being the "flagship" it carries loads of additional voices and recording facilities as well as having adjustment capability for the piano alone.

Souinds like a bargain. I`d grab it for sure! Here`s a great demo of the AP 450.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJWe6JW5qk


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#2193051 - 12/05/13 05:36 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Forestman
The piano action and piano sample is the same for all Privia and Celvianos. The AP-650 is similar to the PX-350 except for the cabinet, amp, speakers, and higher end features like lid simulator, string resonance and a few other features.

#2193054 - 12/05/13 05:44 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Scott Hamlin Offline
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Two other differences:

The PX-850 uses a USB stick to record audio, the AP-650 uses SD card. Not a huge difference, but most people prefer USB sticks.
EDIT: My bad - they both use USB. thanks Mike. blush

Also, the AP-650 has a 17 track sequencer, the PX-850 has two tracks. Again, may not make a huge difference to you if you plan on using that feature.

Last edited by Scott Hamlin; 12/05/13 10:07 PM.
#2193164 - 12/05/13 09:19 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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I've tried the AP-650 and it gives a very big, broad sound due to better speakers and larger cabinet. If they were the same price, I'll get the AP-650 over the PX any day.

The key click? I don't notice it much on my AP-450. May be louder than Kawai but not to the extent of unacceptable. I don't use headphones, though, but when I lower the volume, yes, I can "feel" it, but still playable. Subjective, I suppose.


- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450
#2193252 - 12/06/13 01:26 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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hands down the AP-650 is better in every aspect as its the top model vs the lower end model of the cabinet series. Granted most of the stuff is the same, but you get a much nicer cabinet, lcd display, more sounds, more other features, and more powerful speakers. The px850 was $879 when on sale @ costco back in July. $1099 for each model today is a no brainer of course in favor of the 650.

#2193425 - 12/06/13 11:10 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Forestman Offline
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Yeah seems like both pianos are pretty much the same, except for better cabinet (or worse if you lack space), LCD screen and some additional software for the AP-650. I doesn't justify it being priced $500 more normally, but at the same price, I think I'll go for it.

Yeah Scott, I was a bit confused by the AP not having USB connectivity, the PX has two and the AP has one looking at the specs.

Thanks for the info!

#2193428 - 12/06/13 11:16 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Why don`t you download the manuals (pdf) since they`re readily available from the manufacturers` sites . . . . .you`ll get a better idea then!


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#2193432 - 12/06/13 11:23 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Scott Hamlin Offline
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Originally Posted by Forestman


Yeah Scott, I was a bit confused by the AP not having USB connectivity, the PX has two and the AP has one looking at the specs.



I just checked the manual and with Mike. The AP-650 indeed has 2 USBs.. one for recording to a flash drive and one for connecting to a computer. I saw SD on a website that is being updated so I was confused as well. The manual is for the 650 is here, BTW:
http://support.casio.com/en/manual/008/AP650_EN.pdf

#2193448 - 12/06/13 11:50 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Forestman Offline
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That's a good idea I didn't think of!

That's a lot of reading th-thanks...

#2254647 - 03/31/14 03:52 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Hi all,
I have tried AP-450 , PX-780 and PX-850 side by side at a music store.
I am not sure why but the touch of PX-780 is much better then that of a AP-450.
The AP-450 keys seems very light on the unit I tried.
The key touch of the PX-850 feels very close to an acoustic and clearly beats AP-450 and PX-780 .. anyone has the same opinion too ?

#2254655 - 03/31/14 04:38 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Lakatos]  
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Originally Posted by Lakatos
Hi all,
I have tried AP-450 , PX-780 and PX-850 side by side at a music store.
I am not sure why but the touch of PX-780 is much better then that of a AP-450.
The AP-450 keys seems very light on the unit I tried.
The key touch of the PX-850 feels very close to an acoustic and clearly beats AP-450 and PX-780 .. anyone has the same opinion too ?

It should be the same action, as I understand it.

Perhaps one has been used a lot more heavily than the others - in which case isn't a great implication. Or maybe just some variancies in production.

Or maybe the settings were different, which kind of deceived a little whilst you were playing it?

#2254673 - 03/31/14 05:42 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Lakatos]  
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peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by Lakatos
Hi all,
I have tried AP-450 , PX-780 and PX-850 side by side at a music store.
I am not sure why but the touch of PX-780 is much better then that of a AP-450.
The AP-450 keys seems very light on the unit I tried.
The key touch of the PX-850 feels very close to an acoustic and clearly beats AP-450 and PX-780 .. anyone has the same opinion too ?


You can have identical actions, but different velocity curves (to facilitate different numbers of sensors perhaps) will give a very different feel. People here experience this all the time when they play software pianos; depenmds on the settings, latency etc.

Now if you`re talkin` about playing these things switched "off" then I`ve just wasted my time . . .and anybody else`s who`s reading this.

The weather in Morecambe today is very pleasant and warm, and I`ve just scoffed a piece o` Christmas cake which they`re still selling. . .I thought you`d all be so glad to know that . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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#2254676 - 03/31/14 05:56 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Kawai James Online content
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Pete, was it proper Christmas cake (rich fruit cake with lots of sherry and brandy, covered with marzipan and then white icing)?

If so, that's the stuff of kings!

Years ago, my mum used to make two, and send half of one to me - kept me going through the long, snowy North Japan winter.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2254679 - 03/31/14 06:06 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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What are you doing in Morecambe, Peter? This sounds like a real Bank Holiday type of activity - complete with Christmas cake on the day before April Fools - in the middle of Lent. How times change!


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#2254682 - 03/31/14 06:24 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: toddy]  
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Originally Posted by toddy
What are you doing in Morecambe, Peter?


What everybody does in Morecambe - go to look at the John Bartholomew statue!

#2254685 - 03/31/14 06:36 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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We went to Morecambe once. When I was about 9. Don't remember the statue. We went because dad was trying to sell someone a swimming bath pump. Quite possibly, it was the Morecambe Council. We had egg sandwiches.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
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Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2254686 - 03/31/14 06:39 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: toddy]  
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Originally Posted by toddy
We went to Morecambe once. When I was about 9. Don't remember the statue. We went because dad was trying to sell someone a swimming bath pump. Quite possibly, it was the Morecambe Council. We had egg sandwiches.


I think the statue is reasonably modern? Around 2000 at a guess.

Caveat: I don't live there, though.

It's just when family go to visit there, they always seem to have a picture of the statue.

#2254689 - 03/31/14 06:56 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Back in those days, I don't think there was a stature, no. So the only excitement at all was on Thursday afternoons, when the whole town would turn out in the high street to watch the traffic lights change.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2254691 - 03/31/14 07:08 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: toddy]  
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Lester Burnham Offline
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Originally Posted by toddy
Back in those days, I don't think there was a stature, no. So the only excitement at all was on Thursday afternoons, when the whole town would turn out in the high street to watch the traffic lights change.


You make it sound so dull...

#2254701 - 03/31/14 07:47 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Kawai James]  
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James, the Xmas cake is a slab from Morrison`s supermarkets, Complete with marzipan (an addiction) and icing. They put Xmas wrapping on it at the appropriate time, and it is SOOOO good with a glass of med dry sherry. On a Sunday morning. And yesterday afternoon.

I live in Morecambe. It has one of the largest piano shops in the country. And the best fish and chips. . . outside Yorkshire.

Last edited by peterws; 03/31/14 07:50 AM.

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#2254707 - 03/31/14 07:58 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: peterws]  
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Originally Posted by peterws
James, the Xmas cake is a slab from Morrison`s supermarkets, Complete with marzipan (an addiction) and icing. They put Xmas wrapping on it at the appropriate time, and it is SOOOO good with a glass of med dry sherry. On a Sunday morning. And yesterday afternoon.


Yes, that's the stuff! wink
But why is Morrison's still selling Christmas cake at the end of March?

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2254708 - 03/31/14 08:01 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Our mistake was to take egg sandwiches, then. I see that now, but that is with hindsight of 45 years.

In all honesty, it might not even have been egg. It could even have been those awful salmon paste things that came in those tiny little glass pots. Princes Salmon Paste. Yuk!

We were missing out on the best fish'n'chips in Lancashire just to save a couple of bob. What a pity. But that was our family, I'm afraid......and I don't recall Morecambe council ever placing that order for the water pump.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2254750 - 03/31/14 09:33 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by peterws
James, the Xmas cake is a slab from Morrison`s supermarkets, Complete with marzipan (an addiction) and icing. They put Xmas wrapping on it at the appropriate time, and it is SOOOO good with a glass of med dry sherry. On a Sunday morning. And yesterday afternoon.


Yes, that's the stuff! wink
But why is Morrison's still selling Christmas cake at the end of March?

James
x

Because the stuff will outlive the zombie apocalypse, armageddon, and cockroaches.

Sell-by-dates? Pah, they're like red-braces and lunch - for wimps.

#2254751 - 03/31/14 09:36 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: toddy]  
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Originally Posted by toddy
Our mistake was to take egg sandwiches, then. I see that now, but that is with hindsight of 45 years.

In all honesty, it might not even have been egg. It could even have been those awful salmon paste things that came in those tiny little glass pots. Princes Salmon Paste. Yuk!


I'm quite partial to egg-mayonnaise sandwiches. But not Princes sandwich potted pastes - oh no (said with my best John Major impression).

Originally Posted by toddy
We were missing out on the best fish'n'chips in Lancashire


The infamous Cottage Chippy in Blackpool?

#2254936 - 03/31/14 05:10 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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Originally Posted by Forestman
I heard that the tonal decay for the AP-650 is not good [...]


Yes, both the length of the "decay" and the "initial decay" (that fades away too quickly) are not good on the Casio's - all models are the same.

Look for something else.

#2254941 - 03/31/14 05:16 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: pv88]  
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Originally Posted by pv88
. . .
Yes, both the length of the "decay" and the "initial decay" (that fades away too quickly) are not good on the Casio's - all models are the same.

Look for something else.


The problem is finding something else, that is significantly better, _at a similar price_.

[I'm just about to crack the "sustain problem" by buying Pianoteq -- but that's not something I'd recommend to a raw beginner.]

. Charles

PS - bias - I own a PX-350.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2254975 - 03/31/14 06:26 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]  
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I would vote for cheap Roland, but you have also cheap Yamahas and Kawai. Which one is up to your taste.

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