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#2192556 - 12/04/13 05:52 PM What's in your Lost & Found?  
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sorry for the lame thread….LOL

Items in my studio lost and found:
1 blue plastic squirt gun
1 yellow plastic horse
1 Lego flag
1 "V" Go Fish playing card

I took these items to my students' recent recital in a basket and had no takers, so they ended up in my studio again…
Anything interesting in your lost and founds?


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#2192637 - 12/04/13 08:32 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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Barb,
I have been able to return items to kids the following week.

Regarding little items that you mentioned, I would not allow them to junk up my studio. If the squirt gun still works, I'd put it in the bag to go to Good Will.

#2192704 - 12/04/13 11:28 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Overexposed]  
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I have a beautiful navy blue glass plate from the last recital. I've sent out emails and notes, but no takers. It seems way too nice for someone to view as a throw away. I feel quilty with it being in my china cabinet. Perhaps at this years recital someone will notice it and claim it.

Other than that, I only get tiny little things - pins, beads. Anything else gets returned the following week.

#2192839 - 12/05/13 08:51 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Joyce_dup1]  
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Originally Posted by Joyce_dup1
I have a beautiful navy blue glass plate from the last recital. I've sent out emails and notes, but no takers. It seems way too nice for someone to view as a throw away. I feel quilty with it being in my china cabinet.


Hi Joyce,
That plate sounds like the one I lost. Not sure how it got to your recital. Would you mind mailing it back to me?

smile

#2192843 - 12/05/13 09:01 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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Wait. As I think of it, I don't want to put you to the trouble and expense of mailing it. So, Joyce, you may keep the glass plate (guilt free). If anyone asks where you got it, you can let them know your friend, Ann, gave it to you.

#2192863 - 12/05/13 09:46 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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LOL! I have a couple of nice umbrellas, nothing cool like a blue squirt gun, though.


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#2192884 - 12/05/13 10:29 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Morodiene]  
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How about what's in your student's lost and founds?

For instance, how much sheet music have you lent your students that they never gave back? I passed the $500 mark a while back.


Laguna Greg

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#2192890 - 12/05/13 10:48 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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That's absolutely not acceptable. Why do you let your students get away with that?


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2192893 - 12/05/13 10:52 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Polyphonist]  
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You tell that to my students. And your own.


Laguna Greg

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#2192895 - 12/05/13 10:56 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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What do you mean?


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2192913 - 12/05/13 11:58 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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I usually don't lend books out. If I do, I generally mention it every time until I get it back, but it's usually not a problem for me. When I loan a book I usually place an order for them for that book and so I swap them when the new one comes in.


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#2192977 - 12/05/13 02:31 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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I do have a "lending library" of duplicate books, old books, and junk music books that they give out as freebie gifts at the MTAC Convention. I also had a few students who quit lessons, and then as a parting gift they gave me their entire library of used method books. I also inherited shelves of old books from retired and/or deceased MTAC members. I can't seem to find people who want these books.


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#2192980 - 12/05/13 02:33 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Morodiene]  
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Actually, the worst offenders are my chamber music and vocal partners. I always buy my own parts because I hate playing with copies. One cellist, with whom I've worked my whole life, has an entire collection of cello parts that go with my piano parts, little pieces and sonatas. I got wise about 8 years ago and started giving HIM the copies. He didn't like that, but I told him he could always get his own originals; he wasn't getting mine until he gave me back all the ones he'd kept over the years. Since then, I only give out copies of parts if people don't bring their own. And I learned early on never to give parts to singers because they just won't give them back.


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#2192983 - 12/05/13 02:37 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: AZNpiano]  
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AZN, I've inherited 3 "libraries" of reference books and music scores. Those are wonderful! I keep the scores I don't have and give the rest to my students. The reference books are invaluable. If you have any of those, please let me know and I'll take them off your hands if I can use them.

Last edited by laguna_greg; 12/05/13 02:38 PM.

Laguna Greg

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#2193063 - 12/05/13 04:55 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: laguna_greg]  
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Originally Posted by laguna_greg
Actually, the worst offenders are my chamber music and vocal partners. I always buy my own parts because I hate playing with copies. One cellist, with whom I've worked my whole life, has an entire collection of cello parts that go with my piano parts, little pieces and sonatas. I got wise about 8 years ago and started giving HIM the copies. He didn't like that, but I told him he could always get his own originals; he wasn't getting mine until he gave me back all the ones he'd kept over the years. Since then, I only give out copies of parts if people don't bring their own. And I learned early on never to give parts to singers because they just won't give them back.

There is NO EXCUSE for professional chamber musicians not to bring their own parts and own the score. For me, anyone that shows up for a rehearsal and asks "Do you have my part" will be out the door immediately.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2193080 - 12/05/13 05:32 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Tell that to them. I've been saying it for years.


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#2193159 - 12/05/13 07:58 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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Why don't you try showing up without your part and see what they think. laugh They can't complain, if they do the same thing.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2193178 - 12/05/13 09:34 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Why don't you try showing up without your part and see what they think. laugh They can't complain, if they do the same thing.
Exactly. Some people learn after only having that done to them once smile .


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#2193271 - 12/06/13 01:19 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Why don't you try showing up without your part and see what they think. laugh They can't complain, if they do the same thing.
Exactly. Some people learn after only having that done to them once smile .


That's all very well and good, except that these are the people who hired me. And who got the gig in the first place. I've not even been the featured artist here, contractually.

Do you two actually do this for a living? Ever? I mean really, it doesn't do to bite the hand that feeds you. Show them up, of course, but don't bite them back.

They can get somebody else to play, and sometimes do...


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#2193374 - 12/06/13 08:13 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: laguna_greg]  
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Originally Posted by laguna_greg
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Why don't you try showing up without your part and see what they think. laugh They can't complain, if they do the same thing.
Exactly. Some people learn after only having that done to them once smile .


That's all very well and good, except that these are the people who hired me. And who got the gig in the first place. I've not even been the featured artist here, contractually.

Do you two actually do this for a living? Ever? I mean really, it doesn't do to bite the hand that feeds you. Show them up, of course, but don't bite them back.

They can get somebody else to play, and sometimes do...
I don't see it as biting the hand that feeds at all. I'm only responsible for my music when I show up at a rehearsals - not really sure why it would be any other way.


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#2193389 - 12/06/13 08:49 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by laguna_greg
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Why don't you try showing up without your part and see what they think. laugh They can't complain, if they do the same thing.
Exactly. Some people learn after only having that done to them once smile .


That's all very well and good, except that these are the people who hired me. And who got the gig in the first place. I've not even been the featured artist here, contractually.

Do you two actually do this for a living? Ever? I mean really, it doesn't do to bite the hand that feeds you. Show them up, of course, but don't bite them back.

They can get somebody else to play, and sometimes do...
I don't see it as biting the hand that feeds at all. I'm only responsible for my music when I show up at a rehearsals - not really sure why it would be any other way.


Wait - these are paid gigs? And you're bringing photocopies???? No way that's not a copyright violation.


gotta go practice
#2193397 - 12/06/13 09:09 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: TimR]  
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by laguna_greg
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Why don't you try showing up without your part and see what they think. laugh They can't complain, if they do the same thing.
Exactly. Some people learn after only having that done to them once smile .


That's all very well and good, except that these are the people who hired me. And who got the gig in the first place. I've not even been the featured artist here, contractually.

Do you two actually do this for a living? Ever? I mean really, it doesn't do to bite the hand that feeds you. Show them up, of course, but don't bite them back.

They can get somebody else to play, and sometimes do...
I don't see it as biting the hand that feeds at all. I'm only responsible for my music when I show up at a rehearsals - not really sure why it would be any other way.


Wait - these are paid gigs? And you're bringing photocopies???? No way that's not a copyright violation.
Who said anything about photocopies?


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#2193418 - 12/06/13 09:57 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by laguna_greg
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Why don't you try showing up without your part and see what they think. laugh They can't complain, if they do the same thing.
Exactly. Some people learn after only having that done to them once smile .


That's all very well and good, except that these are the people who hired me. And who got the gig in the first place. I've not even been the featured artist here, contractually.

Do you two actually do this for a living? Ever? I mean really, it doesn't do to bite the hand that feeds you. Show them up, of course, but don't bite them back.

They can get somebody else to play, and sometimes do...
I don't see it as biting the hand that feeds at all. I'm only responsible for my music when I show up at a rehearsals - not really sure why it would be any other way.


Wait - these are paid gigs? And you're bringing photocopies???? No way that's not a copyright violation.
Who said anything about photocopies?


He said he keeps the original and gives his fellow players "copies." Now, these might not be photocopies, true. There are other ways to make copies. One can write it out by hand, type it into a notation program, scan and digitize, etc. But they all share one feature: they reproduce an original that in most cases you do not have permission to reproduce.

Besides, we know from previous discussion that Greg has a somewhat ideosyncratic take on "fair use."


gotta go practice
#2193436 - 12/06/13 10:28 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: TimR]  
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by TimR


Wait - these are paid gigs? And you're bringing photocopies???? No way that's not a copyright violation.
Who said anything about photocopies?


He said he keeps the original and gives his fellow players "copies." Now, these might not be photocopies, true. There are other ways to make copies. One can write it out by hand, type it into a notation program, scan and digitize, etc. But they all share one feature: they reproduce an original that in most cases you do not have permission to reproduce.

Besides, we know from previous discussion that Greg has a somewhat ideosyncratic take on "fair use."
I took it to mean the other player's parts within the context.


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#2193452 - 12/06/13 11:03 AM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Barb860]  
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Greg said the problem was that he was not getting the other parts back for his scores. E.g. the clarinet player keeps the clarinet part of, let's say, Sonata for Clarinet and Piano. So now Greg gives the clarinet player a copy instead. That sounds like a copy (photo or whatever) rather than the preprinted clarinet part that Greg purchased when he purchased the sonata, which would typically come in two separate booklets, with the clarinet part tucked into the piano part.



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#2193472 - 12/06/13 12:07 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: PianoStudent88]  
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Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
Greg said the problem was that he was not getting the other parts back for his scores. E.g. the clarinet player keeps the clarinet part of, let's say, Sonata for Clarinet and Piano. So now Greg gives the clarinet player a copy instead. That sounds like a copy (photo or whatever) rather than the preprinted clarinet part that Greg purchased when he purchased the sonata, which would typically come in two separate booklets, with the clarinet part tucked into the piano part.

Ya, that is what I was seeing it as. And making a photocopy of music you purchased is OK.


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#2193481 - 12/06/13 12:39 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
Greg said the problem was that he was not getting the other parts back for his scores. E.g. the clarinet player keeps the clarinet part of, let's say, Sonata for Clarinet and Piano. So now Greg gives the clarinet player a copy instead. That sounds like a copy (photo or whatever) rather than the preprinted clarinet part that Greg purchased when he purchased the sonata, which would typically come in two separate booklets, with the clarinet part tucked into the piano part.

Ya, that is what I was seeing it as. And making a photocopy of music you purchased is OK.


No, I'm sorry, what is described here is very definitely not okay.

If you need two copies you must buy two copies.

There are exceptions. My church subscribes to St. James Press and copies are included as part of the price. So I can and do legally run more copies of bell music as needed.

But in general you can't make another copy just because it's more convenient, or you fear the original becoming lost or damaged.

This isn't a gray area. There is no disagreement on this among any of the musicians, professional or amateur, with whom I work regularly.


gotta go practice
#2193485 - 12/06/13 12:45 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: TimR]  
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
Greg said the problem was that he was not getting the other parts back for his scores. E.g. the clarinet player keeps the clarinet part of, let's say, Sonata for Clarinet and Piano. So now Greg gives the clarinet player a copy instead. That sounds like a copy (photo or whatever) rather than the preprinted clarinet part that Greg purchased when he purchased the sonata, which would typically come in two separate booklets, with the clarinet part tucked into the piano part.

Ya, that is what I was seeing it as. And making a photocopy of music you purchased is OK.


No, I'm sorry, what is described here is very definitely not okay.

If you need two copies you must buy two copies.

There are exceptions. My church subscribes to St. James Press and copies are included as part of the price. So I can and do legally run more copies of bell music as needed.

But in general you can't make another copy just because it's more convenient, or you fear the original becoming lost or damaged.

This isn't a gray area. There is no disagreement on this among any of the musicians, professional or amateur, with whom I work regularly.
You are not reading what is written. He owns 2 copies - legal. He does not GIVE the copy to the other musician, but gives them a photocopy of the legal copy he owns, thus not losing his original. This is fine. As long as you own enough originals for everyone who is performing, there is not a problem.


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#2193515 - 12/06/13 01:59 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
You are not reading what is written. He owns 2 copies - legal. He does not GIVE the copy to the other musician, but gives them a photocopy of the legal copy he owns, thus not losing his original. This is fine. As long as you own enough originals for everyone who is performing, there is not a problem.


I am reading what is written.

It IS a problem even if you own enough originals, which by the way is not claimed and I highly doubt he has.

If he has enough originals, why not use them? What does he gain by using photocopies?

Plainly he gains, or he wouldn't do it. In other words he has a sound business reason for needing two copies, but he has no intention of paying for two copies.

He's running a business performing. That business requires multiple copies of music, because human nature guarantees some copies won't come back or won't be available when needed. The law and ethics both require he pay the publisher for those copies.

Owning an original does not give you the right to reproduce it. Obviously you disagree, and I'd be curious why you've come to think that.

(I have occasionally been at a rehearsal where the director or contractor handed me a photocopy. Always it has been explained that the proper purchased copy has been ordered and will be received by performance time, and the photocopy will be destroyed. And yeah, we all know that's technically illegal, but it does happen. The reason I bring it up is that it illustrates that in the performing world we understand the rules forbid this.)

We discuss this quite a bit on a handbell forum. We usually have 10 or 12 ringers and everybody knows you buy a separate piece for each. And everybody would like to keep the originals in the file and hand out photocopies. Many bell ringers do not read much music, and circle their notes (often with a convention like left hand circle, right hand triangle, etc.) Once somebody has circled every F and G in every measure, it's pretty much ruined for the guy who rings C and D. But everybody knows the photocopy approach. while convenient, is illegal, and out of professional pride we don't do it. There are other copyright issues within handbell directors that are very contentious, but this isn't one of them.


gotta go practice
#2193518 - 12/06/13 02:08 PM Re: What's in your Lost & Found? [Re: TimR]  
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by Morodiene
You are not reading what is written. He owns 2 copies - legal. He does not GIVE the copy to the other musician, but gives them a photocopy of the legal copy he owns, thus not losing his original. This is fine. As long as you own enough originals for everyone who is performing, there is not a problem.


I am reading what is written.

It IS a problem even if you own enough originals, which by the way is not claimed and I highly doubt he has.

If he has enough originals, why not use them? What does he gain by using photocopies?
Plainly he gains, or he wouldn't do it. In other words he has a sound business reason for needing two copies, but he has no intention of paying for two copies.
If you own enough originals but said musician notoriously never returns originals after the concert, then he gives them a photocopy to use instead. He's paid for enough originals, but he doesn't wish to give them away. Makes perfect sense to me.



Quote
Owning an original does not give you the right to reproduce it. Obviously you disagree, and I'd be curious why you've come to think that.


Again, you are making assumptions. And, by the way, there are legal grounds for using photocopies. Here is one resource I just found by searching.
http://www.schmittmusic.com/print-media/copyright-guide.php

Quote
You may make emergency photocopies to replace missing purchased copies for an imminent performance, provided you replace all copies with purchased music in due course.

So if the copies will be replaced by originals, it's legal to use a photocopy and then destroy it afterwards.





private piano/voice teacher FT

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