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Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2187310 11/23/13 12:09 PM
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The instructions I quoted are what was provided when I worked as Steinway technician at Sherman, Clay in Seattle nearly 20 years ago. They are certainly free to change their opinion of moving techniques but that does not change the fact that properly done, it works well. The main mover for S&C , Seattle up until their recent closing; Greg Himes, lyre tips most of the moves I have witnessed.

I didn't say that my quote was current policy. I don't really care what that is-I know what works. I have my own experience to recommend from.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Minnesota Marty #2187336 11/23/13 01:09 PM
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If you hire a professional to provide a service and you dictate the methods used, you assume liability if something goes awry. Hire a professional that you have determined you trust, then they make decisions on what techniques will work best.

If you don't like lyre tipping when moving grand pianos, find someone who doesn't use it.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Swarth #2187344 11/23/13 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Swarth
My movers did it exactly the way Ed described it. There was no issue with lyretipping a Mason & Hamlin CC.
I don't think any of those against lyre tipping think there will always be some problem created by doing it.

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Ed McMorrow, RPT #2187392 11/23/13 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
If you don't like lyre tipping when moving grand pianos, find someone who doesn't use it.

That is the exact reason for this thread.

Yet, Robert H was barraged with recommendations to alter his preference. However, he did receive some references for movers who provide the service he requests. That would in no way negate any insurance carried by the moving company. If any requests are accommodated by the mover, and not declared "at your own risk," liability still falls to the moving company.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Minnesota Marty #2187719 11/24/13 01:06 PM
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Again I say-dictating methods to a professional about how they do a job for you severely clouds liability issues. Check with an attorney for applicable case law.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2187734 11/24/13 01:35 PM
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Dictating is far different than requesting.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Minnesota Marty #2187994 11/25/13 10:29 AM
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Judging by your record of communication with me-the difference between dictate and request is very small for you.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2188041 11/25/13 11:43 AM
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Mr. McMorrow,

Presenting 20 year old information, based on your recollection, in the present tense does not serve the readers of this forum well.

Contrary to your definitive statement, Steinway does not recommend tipping on the lyre for assembly. I documented their procedure and conveyed that information to you in a PM, prior to stating it here. The ability to edit your statement was offered and you declined to rectify your statement.

My understanding of the difference between 'dictating' and 'requesting' is quite clear. I also understand the difference between past tense and present tense. 'Twenty years ago' is clearly past and I sincerely doubt that S&S has ever recommended that procedure for assembly.



Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Minnesota Marty #2188144 11/25/13 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Mr. McMorrow,

Presenting 20 year old information, based on your recollection, in the present tense does not serve the readers of this forum well.

...


While I have no interest in this clash of ego between the two of you, I cannot help noticing that you have no problem disregarding Steinway's current position on Dampp Chaser because it contradicts your opinion.

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Newbie123 #2188154 11/25/13 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Newbie123
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Mr. McMorrow,

Presenting 20 year old information, based on your recollection, in the present tense does not serve the readers of this forum well.

...


While I have no interest in this clash of ego between the two of you, I cannot help noticing that you have no problem disregarding Steinway's current position on Dampp Chaser because it contradicts your opinion.

I have no idea if Steinway has a position on the Piano Life Saver System. When I recommend its use, it is based on my own experience, rather than the recommendations of various manufacturers. I was introduced to the product by the recommendation of the rebuilder of one of my pianos.

Does S&S state that it should not be used, as they state with lyre tipping?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2188317 11/25/13 10:09 PM
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One of our finest technicians checks out a piano before a performance:

[Linked Image]

"Yeah Marty, they have definitely been tipping on this lyre!"


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2188324 11/25/13 10:34 PM
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Tipping or tippling?

(My first thought was of Lily Tomlin as Edith Ann.)


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2188327 11/25/13 10:38 PM
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Sort of on-topic, this is a 12 minute video that a customer made of our crew delivering his grand piano a few years back. It is a little home spun, a little too long, and the moment he plays his wife the song he wrote her when he was 19 might well you up a little. But it shows, IMHO, how a grand piano should be treated in delivery:



Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Visit our Online Store
The Science Channel documents our piano restoration
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Rich Galassini #2188389 11/26/13 12:32 AM
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Nice video Rich.

Out here we refer to the swivel dolly your movers used as a "suicide dolly". The reason is we have so many hills that the piano can run away sideways.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Minnesota Marty #2188395 11/26/13 12:48 AM
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Marty,
I do not represent Steinway. This is obvious to all forum readers because I would be banned from the forum if I failed to divulge my piano business affiliations.

You do not represent Steinway either! They can speak for themselves if they feel a need to. My posts are obviously my opinions and experience! You are free to doubt what you wish. Given your history of communication with me-I can only infer that you have some sort of a grudge against me. After all, you did PM me after my very first PW post's asking what my credentials were to question another posting technicians opinions. If I offended you-it is beyond any comprehension how.

Lyre tipping with the proper technique is safe and effective. That is my experience. I have witnessed a couple of thousand grand piano moves, and that is experience. I have seen many Steinway dealers use Lyre tipping techniques. I have seen them do it at Steinway Hall. So call me a liar if you must.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Rich Galassini #2188396 11/26/13 01:04 AM
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Rich...what a wonderful video, and a nice sounding piano too. smile

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2188690 11/26/13 02:01 PM
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Hi guys,

Back to piano moving, I see the light at the end of the tunnel! smile
Regardless of your opinion/belief in lyre tipping, if you prefer to hire a mover in SoCal who will not tip your piano on its lyre, I found one!

Donnie's Piano Transport
http://pianotransportation.com/

They use the Moondog Grand Piano Tilter device.
Donnie mentioned that typically they use it for grands 6' or larger, especially those with a player system.
However, I've requested for him to use it for our M&H A and he's happy to accommodate my request.
I am waiting for a quote from him.

To be honest, after calling about 20 movers I was ready to give up,...
Until I spoke with a gentleman @ Music In Motion in San Bernardino.
Unfortunately I don't remember his name frown
http://local.yahoo.com/info-20959260-music-in-motion-san-bernardino

He is also a piano mover and he uses the lyre tipping method.
After I told him that I'm looking for a mover who does not lyretip, he didn't give me a lecture, he pointed me to Donnie's Piano Transport!! What an awesome guy and I will definitely look into giving him my business in the future for other services that he provides.

I googled Donnie's Piano Transport and the first thing I found was a YouTube video from 2 years ago showing them lyretipping a grand piano frown Ok, I thought I was done.
But I sent out an email to them anyway to ask if they can move without lyretipping.
Donnie responded right away and told me about the Moondog device that they use.
So, eureka! smile

On another related note, I just received a note from Paul Jansen Jr. informing me that he does not know of any movers in SoCal using the Jansen Piano Horse. And, since they have not sold it in large quantities they decided to discontinue it. So, the Jansen Piano Horse is no more.

Ok guys, have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Regards,

Robert


Mason & Hamlin - A - 92514
Roland A-90 EX
"When you fall down,... pick up something!"
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2191430 12/02/13 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert H
Hi guys,

Back to piano moving, I see the light at the end of the tunnel! smile
Regardless of your opinion/belief in lyre tipping, if you prefer to hire a mover in SoCal who will not tip your piano on its lyre, I found one!

Donnie's Piano Transport
http://pianotransportation.com/

They use the Moondog Grand Piano Tilter device.
Donnie mentioned that typically they use it for grands 6' or larger, especially those with a player system.
However, I've requested for him to use it for our M&H A and he's happy to accommodate my request.
I am waiting for a quote from him.

To be honest, after calling about 20 movers I was ready to give up,...
Until I spoke with a gentleman @ Music In Motion in San Bernardino.
Unfortunately I don't remember his name frown
http://local.yahoo.com/info-20959260-music-in-motion-san-bernardino

He is also a piano mover and he uses the lyre tipping method.
After I told him that I'm looking for a mover who does not lyretip, he didn't give me a lecture, he pointed me to Donnie's Piano Transport!! What an awesome guy and I will definitely look into giving him my business in the future for other services that he provides.

I googled Donnie's Piano Transport and the first thing I found was a YouTube video from 2 years ago showing them lyretipping a grand piano frown Ok, I thought I was done.
But I sent out an email to them anyway to ask if they can move without lyretipping.
Donnie responded right away and told me about the Moondog device that they use.
So, eureka! smile

On another related note, I just received a note from Paul Jansen Jr. informing me that he does not know of any movers in SoCal using the Jansen Piano Horse. And, since they have not sold it in large quantities they decided to discontinue it. So, the Jansen Piano Horse is no more.

Ok guys, have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Regards,

Robert



just spoke with Donnie.. He explained the method they use for non-lyre tipping moving and his quote for moving was actually significantly lower than other movers I worked with.. great find!

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2191440 12/02/13 01:01 PM
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I wonder if some of the premium piano brands build their Lyre to withstand the possible stress of being used to support the piano when tipping it? Even if it isn't their recommended method, it seems to make sense to engineer it with extra strength, given the debate that has gone on here and the reasonable possibility that a mover will do it one day.

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2191673 12/03/13 12:30 AM
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There is a picture of a Steinway B with the legs punched through the stage surface of an auditorium that collapsed in the Northridge quake in LA. The lyre did not go through the stage nor break. The piano was uncovered from the collapsed roof. The piano held up. You could still play it if I remember correctly. Of course it looked like heck.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
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