Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
The instructions I quoted are what was provided when I worked as Steinway technician at Sherman, Clay in Seattle nearly 20 years ago. They are certainly free to change their opinion of moving techniques but that does not change the fact that properly done, it works well. The main mover for S&C , Seattle up until their recent closing; Greg Himes, lyre tips most of the moves I have witnessed.
I didn't say that my quote was current policy. I don't really care what that is-I know what works. I have my own experience to recommend from.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
If you hire a professional to provide a service and you dictate the methods used, you assume liability if something goes awry. Hire a professional that you have determined you trust, then they make decisions on what techniques will work best.
If you don't like lyre tipping when moving grand pianos, find someone who doesn't use it.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
If you don't like lyre tipping when moving grand pianos, find someone who doesn't use it.
That is the exact reason for this thread.
Yet, Robert H was barraged with recommendations to alter his preference. However, he did receive some references for movers who provide the service he requests. That would in no way negate any insurance carried by the moving company. If any requests are accommodated by the mover, and not declared "at your own risk," liability still falls to the moving company.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Again I say-dictating methods to a professional about how they do a job for you severely clouds liability issues. Check with an attorney for applicable case law.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
Judging by your record of communication with me-the difference between dictate and request is very small for you.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
Presenting 20 year old information, based on your recollection, in the present tense does not serve the readers of this forum well.
Contrary to your definitive statement, Steinway does not recommend tipping on the lyre for assembly. I documented their procedure and conveyed that information to you in a PM, prior to stating it here. The ability to edit your statement was offered and you declined to rectify your statement.
My understanding of the difference between 'dictating' and 'requesting' is quite clear. I also understand the difference between past tense and present tense. 'Twenty years ago' is clearly past and I sincerely doubt that S&S has ever recommended that procedure for assembly.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Presenting 20 year old information, based on your recollection, in the present tense does not serve the readers of this forum well.
...
While I have no interest in this clash of ego between the two of you, I cannot help noticing that you have no problem disregarding Steinway's current position on Dampp Chaser because it contradicts your opinion.
Presenting 20 year old information, based on your recollection, in the present tense does not serve the readers of this forum well.
...
While I have no interest in this clash of ego between the two of you, I cannot help noticing that you have no problem disregarding Steinway's current position on Dampp Chaser because it contradicts your opinion.
I have no idea if Steinway has a position on the Piano Life Saver System. When I recommend its use, it is based on my own experience, rather than the recommendations of various manufacturers. I was introduced to the product by the recommendation of the rebuilder of one of my pianos.
Does S&S state that it should not be used, as they state with lyre tipping?
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Sort of on-topic, this is a 12 minute video that a customer made of our crew delivering his grand piano a few years back. It is a little home spun, a little too long, and the moment he plays his wife the song he wrote her when he was 19 might well you up a little. But it shows, IMHO, how a grand piano should be treated in delivery:
Out here we refer to the swivel dolly your movers used as a "suicide dolly". The reason is we have so many hills that the piano can run away sideways.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
Marty, I do not represent Steinway. This is obvious to all forum readers because I would be banned from the forum if I failed to divulge my piano business affiliations.
You do not represent Steinway either! They can speak for themselves if they feel a need to. My posts are obviously my opinions and experience! You are free to doubt what you wish. Given your history of communication with me-I can only infer that you have some sort of a grudge against me. After all, you did PM me after my very first PW post's asking what my credentials were to question another posting technicians opinions. If I offended you-it is beyond any comprehension how.
Lyre tipping with the proper technique is safe and effective. That is my experience. I have witnessed a couple of thousand grand piano moves, and that is experience. I have seen many Steinway dealers use Lyre tipping techniques. I have seen them do it at Steinway Hall. So call me a liar if you must.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
Back to piano moving, I see the light at the end of the tunnel! Regardless of your opinion/belief in lyre tipping, if you prefer to hire a mover in SoCal who will not tip your piano on its lyre, I found one!
They use the Moondog Grand Piano Tilter device. Donnie mentioned that typically they use it for grands 6' or larger, especially those with a player system. However, I've requested for him to use it for our M&H A and he's happy to accommodate my request. I am waiting for a quote from him.
He is also a piano mover and he uses the lyre tipping method. After I told him that I'm looking for a mover who does not lyretip, he didn't give me a lecture, he pointed me to Donnie's Piano Transport!! What an awesome guy and I will definitely look into giving him my business in the future for other services that he provides.
I googled Donnie's Piano Transport and the first thing I found was a YouTube video from 2 years ago showing them lyretipping a grand piano Ok, I thought I was done. But I sent out an email to them anyway to ask if they can move without lyretipping. Donnie responded right away and told me about the Moondog device that they use. So, eureka!
On another related note, I just received a note from Paul Jansen Jr. informing me that he does not know of any movers in SoCal using the Jansen Piano Horse. And, since they have not sold it in large quantities they decided to discontinue it. So, the Jansen Piano Horse is no more.
Ok guys, have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
Regards,
Robert
Mason & Hamlin - A - 92514 Roland A-90 EX "When you fall down,... pick up something!"
Back to piano moving, I see the light at the end of the tunnel! Regardless of your opinion/belief in lyre tipping, if you prefer to hire a mover in SoCal who will not tip your piano on its lyre, I found one!
They use the Moondog Grand Piano Tilter device. Donnie mentioned that typically they use it for grands 6' or larger, especially those with a player system. However, I've requested for him to use it for our M&H A and he's happy to accommodate my request. I am waiting for a quote from him.
He is also a piano mover and he uses the lyre tipping method. After I told him that I'm looking for a mover who does not lyretip, he didn't give me a lecture, he pointed me to Donnie's Piano Transport!! What an awesome guy and I will definitely look into giving him my business in the future for other services that he provides.
I googled Donnie's Piano Transport and the first thing I found was a YouTube video from 2 years ago showing them lyretipping a grand piano Ok, I thought I was done. But I sent out an email to them anyway to ask if they can move without lyretipping. Donnie responded right away and told me about the Moondog device that they use. So, eureka!
On another related note, I just received a note from Paul Jansen Jr. informing me that he does not know of any movers in SoCal using the Jansen Piano Horse. And, since they have not sold it in large quantities they decided to discontinue it. So, the Jansen Piano Horse is no more.
Ok guys, have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
Regards,
Robert
just spoke with Donnie.. He explained the method they use for non-lyre tipping moving and his quote for moving was actually significantly lower than other movers I worked with.. great find!
I wonder if some of the premium piano brands build their Lyre to withstand the possible stress of being used to support the piano when tipping it? Even if it isn't their recommended method, it seems to make sense to engineer it with extra strength, given the debate that has gone on here and the reasonable possibility that a mover will do it one day.
There is a picture of a Steinway B with the legs punched through the stage surface of an auditorium that collapsed in the Northridge quake in LA. The lyre did not go through the stage nor break. The piano was uncovered from the collapsed roof. The piano held up. You could still play it if I remember correctly. Of course it looked like heck.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
![[Linked Image]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e292/voce88/67d7eaaf-7d57-4d37-8ee5-a6591c60b8b8_zpsd4be6b60.jpg)
