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Depending on the day it could be freezing or it could be in the sixties. The grapevine tops out at what 4900 feet? Thanks, that's good info. I was actually more worried about the Siskiyou Pass, heading down into Ashland. I just talked to another mover, and he said that the piano should be fine even if the temperature gets down as low as around 25 degrees fahrenheit. After that, he said I might run the risk of the finish of the Bosendorfer being damaged by small hairline cracks. He was willing to take my Acrosonic spinet too for just $100 more, since they're going the same place. That was good to hear. Mychal
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A/ "I just talked to another mover, and he said that the piano should be fine even if the temperature gets down as low as around 25 degrees fahrenheit. After that, he said I might run the risk of the finish of the Bosendorfer being damaged by small hairline cracks". I don't want to be critical and harsh, but I think that the knowledge of a piano mover on the effect of temperature change on a piano would be very, very limited: 1/ As I know there is no book, no textbook that give any formula on this issue, but we all know by common sense that a piano should be in a "moderate" and stable humid, temperature condition. 2/ A piano mover can move thousand pianos/year, but his experience on this kind of move is very limited, so how can he say "...small hairline cracks"? from his experience? his imagination? => I respect but don't trust much opinion of mover about "small hairline cracks" B/ Please read the book Grand Obsession http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Obsessi...;sr=8-1&keywords=the+grand+obsession " Then disaster strikes: when shipped from the New York showroom to her Montana home, the piano sounds weird and echoey, and its glorious treble is dead".
From here to December you have time to read the above book, especially the part describing impact of coldness on author's piano. As I suggested (in case truck's temperature is not controlled) reduce temperature of the room before moving to outdoors temperature 1, 2 days before the move, then heat up the receiving room gradually in 1 or 2 days to avoid sudden change of temp. And the piano can cope with just a few hours through the passes.
Last edited by hoola; 11/21/13 04:25 AM.
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Thrill Science,
you managed to bash Steinway on a moving topic. Very impressive! Ha! I thought he was bashing Boesendorfer for their outmoded manufacturing methods. But Boesendorfer is just a Yamaha stencil, right?
Gary
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Dear Folks, My suggestion would be Big Al's for piano moves on the West Coast. Seriously good at the job. They perform deliveries for the dealerships and between the dealerships (...like Classic's several stores) on a regular basis. http://www.bigalsmovers.com/You can get referrals/testimonials from the local dealer-folk, for your own comfort and stress reduction. They perform moves for Steinway, Yamaha, Kawai dealers...etc! Call a few in LA and ask about Big Al's. I am quite sure they will support the suggestion. I would not agree with having a local company load onto a U-haul or Penske, and then another company unload in Portland. You'd have to rent or purchase the skidboard, blankets, and straps....and then what do you do with 'em? The cost of a good skidboard and blankets will make your 'save-money' approach not so saving...and you lose the insurance provided by the company moving the instrument. All in all? Better to have a professional handle the move from start to finish. If the weather is iffy or bad; the company will run up Highway 101 on the Coast. Lower altitude, and the roads rarely (...but do sometimes!) get blocked by snowfall. I prefer using Hwy 101 myself for trips to CA..but I'm already on the Coast anyway! Foglifter, Sipping the coffee, I am,
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT Oregon Coast Piano Services TunerJeff440@aol.com
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Thrill Science,
you managed to bash Steinway on a moving topic. Very impressive! Ha! I thought he was bashing Boesendorfer for their outmoded manufacturing methods. But Boesendorfer is just a Yamaha stencil, right? I wasn't bashing anyone! I was just pointing out that Steinway, according to their own website, cooks their wood in an oven to speed up the process of drying, and Boesendorfer, the piano we're discussing here, takes the time to dry it naturally without a kiln. The theory behind this is the slower the drying process, the more stable the wood.
Robert Swirsky Thrill Science, Inc.
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Thrill Science,
you managed to bash Steinway on a moving topic. Very impressive! Ha! I thought he was bashing Boesendorfer for their outmoded manufacturing methods. But Boesendorfer is just a Yamaha stencil, right? I wasn't bashing anyone! I was just pointing out that Steinway, according to their own website, cooks their wood in an oven to speed up the process of drying, and Boesendorfer, the piano we're discussing here, takes the time to dry it naturally without a kiln. The theory behind this is the slower the drying process, the more stable the wood. My understanding is that Steinway does both-- they air dry for about a year and then use kiln drying to have more control and precision over the process of getting to a certain point of dryness in the wood. Do you have any evidence that there is any difference in stability between the methods ? Sophia
Last edited by sophial; 11/21/13 02:16 PM.
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Wood is ideally seasoned by air drying followed by kiln drying. Air drying removes most of the moisture, but leaves a little more than what is required for stability.
Kiln drying is not necessarily "cooking" the wood. It needs to be done carefully to reach the desired moisture level. It can be done in a heated room, sometimes heated with no more than solar heat, like a greenhouse, or it can be done with vacuum.
Semipro Tech
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Do you have any evidence that there is any difference in stability between the methods ? Sophia
No, I have no evidence But that's the theory behind it.
Robert Swirsky Thrill Science, Inc.
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I agree with BDB.
I think that the combination of natural drying and kiln is not only better than natural drying but it's also a MUST to have best woods which must meet some technical specifications.
Without some artificial intervention, there is "no way" to achieve the wanted humidity of the woods, or we must spend long, expensive, unpredicted time to monitor the right humidity of the woods, in this case its cost is unacceptable from commercial point of view. Period.
4 months ago, I bought a new Whirlpool gas dryer which has 3 sensors to measure the humidity of clothes and stop automatically when clothes are dry as set: - I don't have to manually check anymore => time saving. - Spending for gas bill drops significantly (because we wash a lot). - Less wrinkle because the dryer monitors very well temperature and humidity (even Wrinkle-Free button is OFF)
Same thing for piano. I think that there is a over-obsession about "natural", "hand-made", it's like a myth. As mechanical engineer I learn and see very well that there are things machine can not do well as human, and there are things that man can never do without machine.
Piano is a very precise alive machine which is made of woods and others. To make a precise machine, we need precise tools, precise process, no way around.
Last edited by hoola; 11/22/13 04:38 AM.
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This is probably drifting farther from the original topic now but in the interest of accuracy: Straight from Boesendorfer: " The wood is seasoned outdoors for up to five years before it is pre-cut and then it is stored for another six to twelve months in the drying room. ... searching for mountain spruce which has grown at an altitude of 1000 meters and with a minimum amount of humidity. The trees should be very straight, have absolutely no branches and the spacing between the tree rings should be less than 1 mm." Reference: http://www.boesendorfer.com/en/shaping-boesendorfer.html1. Boesendorfer does use an expensive long-duration natural drying method that may be impractical or "commercially not viable" for other makers. 2. Boesendorfer does use " drying room". 3. Boesendorfer also claims to be selecting only wood with specific characteristics, it is not just all about the drying method. A couple sources of information about Wood Drying and Wood Moisture: http://www.uvm.edu/extension/environment/lumberdrying.pdfhttp://www.fs.fed.us/ccrc/topics/ur...d%20moisture%20relations%20of%20wood.pdfIs one's method necessarily better than the other? Is there scientific evidence and research to prove one method is superior? Does it matter? Steinway and Boesendorfer have been making pianos for a great many years. Regardless of what one thinks of Steinway's "aggressive" business practices and whether one "agrees" with Boesendorfer's construction approach, both have sufficient 100-yr old functioning usable pianos to prove their own methods. For a consumer (ME :)), the longevity and existence of long-surviving functional great sounding products is proof enough that both make good pianos. Just my two cents.
Last edited by Caowner2013; 11/22/13 12:00 PM.
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Better to have a professional handle the move from start to finish. Well, I ended up turning down the job and not moving north. So I didn't have to deal with the piano going over the pass, and the expense and worry of moving it a thousand miles. I did move the Bosendorfer though for the first time since the store delivered it eight years ago. Thanks to the recommendation of someone on this forum, I contacted Jay Shields piano movers, and he and his partner came yesterday and moved the piano from our living room to my studio, which is the size of a double car garage with a high ceiling. The two of them did a very good job, taking their time and making sure everything was protected the whole way. Seeing the piano on its side for the first time in a long time, made me appreciate again how well they are made. The workmanship and materials are incredible. After moving it and setting it all up again, the tuning didn't change a bit. I'm looking forward to recording it in here because the acoustics are much better. So the piano did move, but only about a hundred feet instead of a thousand miles. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! Mychal
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An aside; Temperature and humidity variations during a move can probably be slowed by wrapping with sufficient insulation. My GUESS is that sudden changes are the worst thing.
I was a little surprised to NOT see recommendations for air ride trucks (or trailers). Pro movers don't seem to boast "air ride".
IMO a stiffly sprung truck gives a very jarring ride when loaded with say ONE item weighing only a few hundred pounds. OTOH an air ride truck with self leveling has very soft springing when lightly loaded, but firms up when heavily loaded due to the higher pressure in the air springs.
Thoughts ?, opinions ? on this.
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Use a professional mover, but not these people:
Robert Swirsky Thrill Science, Inc.
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Piano Moving Charge - $450 Extra Insurance - $75 Extra Padding - $25
Piano Photo - Priceless!
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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I can't believe what I'm reading. You're moving a Bosie, not a Yamaha. I'd hire the best movers in the world!!! It's like those people that complain that their eye glasses cost $500 for the best, but don't even consider it's their EYES we're talking about.
Really, you'd rent a truck?
Oh my.
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That photo is wonderful. I particularly like the way it includes their website and phone details.
Didn't someone, once, say "there is no such thing as bad publicity"?
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
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