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Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
#2185740 11/20/13 01:50 PM
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Hi guys,

We're moving again, this time just within SoCal - from Lake Arrowhead to Corona.

I've called 5-6 different piano movers in the area, even those highly recommended in past posts on the forum but every time I asked them about lyretipping or pianohorse http://www.pljansen.com/ThePianoHorse.php they all think that I'm crazy. One mover asked me "are you a professor or something?", one lectured me that if I don't want them to tip on the lyre then all the weight will be on the legs and I will risk breaking the legs may and another one told me that it is how they've moved hundreds of pianos for many years and they never had any issue.

Any suggestions for a SoCal piano mover who does not lyretip?
Thank you!

Regards,

Robert


Mason & Hamlin - A - 92514
Roland A-90 EX
"When you fall down,... pick up something!"
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2185759 11/20/13 02:23 PM
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Why do you object to lyre tipping. This is how I see Steinway move pianos around when I am in NY?

If your lyre is weak like old Chickerings/Kimballs etc.-lyre tipping is bad. But the piano horse or Moondog device seem better on the piano and the movers health.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2185849 11/20/13 05:09 PM
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Hi Ed, from what I read here, lyre tipping is bad for the piano.
This will be the 3rd move for the piano.
First was from the dealer to our house in IA, then our move from IA to CA.
Especially since Masons are super heavy, I prefer not to tip it on its lyre - if I can find a mover that does not do this.

Regards,
Robert


Mason & Hamlin - A - 92514
Roland A-90 EX
"When you fall down,... pick up something!"
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2185873 11/20/13 05:54 PM
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Hi Robert,

I had an 1889 M&H screw string piano delivered last May, here in Orange county. They took the lyre off and legs completely off, which was very simple to do. I'll see if I can get their contact info for you.

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Oasismfg #2185894 11/20/13 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Oasismfg
Hi Robert,I had an 1889 M&H screw string piano delivered last May, here in Orange county. They took the lyre off and legs completely off, which was very simple to do. I'll see if I can get their contact info for you.
Isn't the question about how the movers put the legs and lyre back on? I thought tipping on the lyre refers to how they're put back on. Don't the movers almost always take off the legs and lyre?

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2185918 11/20/13 07:32 PM
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interesting.. Robert.. let me know if you find anyone. im in so Cali as well.

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
pianoloverus #2185945 11/20/13 09:13 PM
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Well, I don't know if removing the lyre and legs is standard procedure or not, that was the first time I've ever seen a grand moved. I thought maybe Robert was concerned they would use the lyre as the fulcrum point to tip the piano over.

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Oasismfg #2185953 11/20/13 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Oasismfg
I thought maybe Robert was concerned they would use the lyre as the fulcrum point to tip the piano over.

That is exactly what Robert was worried about. He asked for help in locating a mover who doesn't use this technique. He didn't ask to be talked out of his choice. I believe that is a wise choice and I never allow one of my pianos to be "tipped on its lyre."

For transportation by truck, the piano is moved on its side while strapped to a transport board and placed on a piano dolly. The legs and lyre are always removed. During reassembly, the lyre should be attached after the piano is standing on its legs. It should be the last step in the process.

Certainly there are movers who use other methods and try to cut corners. I would not recommend them.

I don't know the movers in So Cal, but any of the dealerships who feature the high end pianos would be familiar with who does the best work.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2185954 11/20/13 09:35 PM
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We've been moving them for 95 years or something and never used the lyre tip method. Of course if the legs are weak that should be noted when the piano is first looked at by the movers at pickup and appropriate counter measures are taken but with lyre tipping you risk it snapping and going through the soundboard.

Airbags are almost the way to go anymore as the whole thing can be lifted horizontally and you can safely put everything back on


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Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2186269 11/21/13 11:29 AM
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Air bags - now that's a great idea. I've seen large inflatable bags that are intended to jack up a vehicle, they use the vehicle's exhaust as the pressure source. If the bag has a large enough diameter, it only takes a few psi.

Anyway Robert, I found the contact info for the company that moved my piano, I will send you a PM.

Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2186274 11/21/13 11:38 AM
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I have worked with movers who lyre tip and those that don't. Skill and care are more important that any particular technique. If their equipment is proper-lyre tipping is completely safe. That is how Steinway moves.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2186276 11/21/13 11:43 AM
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Thank you all for your replies.
I still have a list of quite a few SoCal piano movers to call.
http://www.pianomoversnetwork.com/piano_movers_ca.htm
I will keep trying and see if I can find a mover and report back.

Christie, I have never seen airbags used, that it very interesting. Do you have any pictures that you can post to the thread?

Regards,

Robert


Mason & Hamlin - A - 92514
Roland A-90 EX
"When you fall down,... pick up something!"
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Ed McMorrow, RPT #2186309 11/21/13 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
If their equipment is proper-lyre tipping is completely safe. That is how Steinway moves.

Please document that S&S uses this technique when moving pianos.

What equipment would be needed for "proper" lyre tipping?

Thanks.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2186357 11/21/13 01:39 PM
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Another interesting comment from a mover.

"Especially Mason & Hamlins are the strongest piano around, they're built to be rolled on it's lyre. We've been moving pianos this way since the 1960s and never have a problem with it."

Robert


Mason & Hamlin - A - 92514
Roland A-90 EX
"When you fall down,... pick up something!"
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Minnesota Marty #2186643 11/22/13 12:38 AM
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Steinway provides instructions for un-crating their pianos and it says to put on the lyre, treble and tail legs, then tip the piano down with a couple of folded pads where the lyre will touch down. Then slide the crate away and put on the bass leg. Then lift the bass corner and remove the pads from under the lyre.

The equipment needed for moving a piano can be in several configurations. The general principle is to have the grand board on the dolly with a block at the keyboard end sized to hold that end of the grand board from tipping down when the bass corner of the straight side is set down on the keyboard end of the grand board near the board centerline.

The bass leg is removed after the bass corner is lifted high enough to place folded moving blankets that are thick enough to hold the bass corner up for the leg to be removed. Then the piano is tilted so the bass corner touches down on the board as described above. You need at least two people so that the lid can be held shut as the piano is tilted completely onto the board. A moving pad is then placed over the treble side and a rubber band stretched around the case to hold the lid shut. The pad is placed so the rubber band is not touching the finished surface.

Then you slide the piano to but into the end block and bring the lid side to just overhang the board edge. Then pad everything up and hook up and tighten the straps. Then you can step down lightly on the tail end of the grand board and remove the block from under the keyboard end of the grand board. Now you are ready to roll the piano away into the truck.

Check out Moondog piano tilter on the web to see their method.

Now just don't confuse lyre tipping with outhouse tipping or cow tipping!!


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2186646 11/22/13 12:42 AM
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I should of said that the dolly is pre-placed under the grand board at the center of gravity for the piano. You need to be experienced to know where that is. That way you avoid the dead lift of the tail of the piano to place the dolly under the grand board.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2186647 11/22/13 12:52 AM
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My movers did it exactly the way Ed described it. There was no issue with lyretipping a Mason & Hamlin CC. [Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Quid est veritas et mendacium, cum orbis terrarum.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2186862 11/22/13 12:43 PM
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Ed, Wow!
I can see why most piano movers said that even the manufacturers told them to tip the piano on its lyre.

That Moondog piano tilter looks great though!
http://moondogmanufacturing.com/
But at $1300 no wonder most piano movers won't spend the money getting it.

At least it's much cheaper than the Roomba of piano moving - Klavier Roller smile
http://www.klavier-roller.com/

I wonder if the Jansen Piano Horse is priced about the same as the moondog tilter.

I sent an email to Jansen to point me to SoCal piano movers who have bought the piano horse a few days ago, but I have not received a reply yet.

Swarth, you may not see any visible damage to the piano but you never know.

Here is a couple of old but great threads on lyretipping:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/23832/1.html
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/246823/1.html

Regards,

Robert

Last edited by Robert H; 11/22/13 12:46 PM.

Mason & Hamlin - A - 92514
Roland A-90 EX
"When you fall down,... pick up something!"
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Robert H #2186871 11/22/13 01:11 PM
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I may not see any visible damage? The only damage I can imagine might be internal to the lyre? That didn't happen. In the first thread you mentioned it was clear the movers were at fault. However it does point out that tipping is not without risk. Using pros that know what they are doing is key. Mine even has rails on the side for easy stage take down and set up, so it's the generally accepted that this was the intended method of setting up. As always, YMMV.


Quid est veritas et mendacium, cum orbis terrarum.
Re: Non lyretipping Piano Movers in So Cal?
Ed McMorrow, RPT #2187220 11/23/13 08:46 AM
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Certainly there are disagreements at Piano World. However, when a statement is provided as fact, concerning the practices of a major piano manufacturer and it differs from company policy, a correction is in order.

Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Steinway provides instructions for un-crating their pianos and it says to put on the lyre, treble and tail legs, then tip the piano down with a couple of folded pads where the lyre will touch down. Then slide the crate away and put on the bass leg. Then lift the bass corner and remove the pads from under the lyre.


I was well aware that this statement was the direct opposite of the company policy and I contacted S&S for clarification. This is an excerpt of an email from Mr. Bob Snyder, Senior Products Manager, Steinway and Sons:

"The lyre assembly on Steinway pianos should NOT be used for tipping the piano. Steinway & Sons recommends the use of a dummy lyre assembly for this purpose. If a dummy lyre is not available, then the piano should be tipped without the lyre assembly attached." (This quote is from the Manager of Customer Service - S&S)

Mr. Snyder also included (PDF) the two page illustrated insert which clearly outlines the method of unpacking and assembly and is included with the shipment of all new Steinway grand pianos. It can be found here:

Steinway Assembly

Ultimately it is up to the piano owner to make his preference known to the moving company and to select the method of transport, including disassembly and reassembly, which he/she considers the most appropriate method for the transport. It is important that the decision is made on accurate reference, rather than personal opinion stated as "company policy."


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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