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Re: Would you buy a piano without trying it first ? (first post)
algo #2184383 11/18/13 08:48 AM
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Actually the Feurich dealer has been upstanding in that regard.
The one i first tried was sold, and he brought a new one.
He asked to me to wait a day before i could see it and prepared it,
then since it had one issue (a sticky key) he send me away and prepared it again.

I wish i could go for one of the better kawai series, however since i only buy cash i might have to wait
some time frown
Actually this was one of the pro's for the k3 since i could upgrade within a period of time (this is actually true for the feurich deal however there are less pianos there i would consider..)
And of course then, there is not k5 to audition, which probably would lead to the same issue again !




Re: Would you buy a piano without trying it first ? (first post)
thetandyman #2184430 11/18/13 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by thetandyman
I never even thought that a piano you have played at a dealer or other could become a different animal once it is delivered to your home. If you get a chance, please check out 'Grand Obsession", by PW member and author Perry Knize. Great reading, but scary, considering the move alone can change the characteristics of some pianos.
Unless I remember incorrectly, I thought the difficulties with that piano were because the tuners didn't continue to use the Schubert tuning the piano had when it was originally purchased?

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/18/13 10:26 AM.
Re: Would you buy a piano without trying it first ? (first post)
algo #2184447 11/18/13 10:49 AM
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algo, I have read your post, here:

subject: Algo Would you buy a piano without trying it first ?

Hello everyone i have been reading this very helpful forum trying to decide for a piano for quite some time now. smirk

I want a new piano and combined with my tight budget i ended up choosing a feurich 122 with which i was quite satisfied. Recently though i found an offer from a dealer putting the kawai k3 close enough (pricewise) to the feurich to make me consider it.
I tried it (a Japanese model) and i really liked the action more than the feurich.

However and here lies the problem, the kawai dealer offer is for indonesian k3's (he says nowadays all of them are made in indonesia and they are the same quality as the Japanese ones)
I can probably believe him, he is a very respected dealer,
on the other hand though he doesn't offer any of these pianos for audition (the only demo he has is the japanese one for which the offer doesn't stand btw..)

Now i am a composer, and used to play piano for many years, i want to start playing again.
Finding a piano i like (in that budget ) was not easy, so the option of buying one without playing with it first is very uneasy for me.
I would go with the feurich, (i actually prefer its sound) but the action especially after i compared it with the k3 became an issue.

So i was wondering, is this something you would do ?
Should i not worry about possible differences between the demo piano and the indonesian one ?
What would you do ?

cheers

__________

The operative word is "trust".

First of all, when you are buying anything new or used, you still can't determine the product as to whether is good or not because you can't x-ray it, throw it against a wall to determine if it was well made or working okay or has flaws like a crack in the wood of the piano or the key action was made on a bad day by drunk workmen.

So it is all about risk you can take or a risk you can't afford.

Let me explain by example.

I am a beginner piano player, and I wanted a 3 legged piano - (politely spoken - saying baby grand sound too ostentatious so I only ever say 3 legged) that had good piano action that was affordable. I read on the internet in a blog that was run by a piano teacher halfway around the world that said go find a piano that was around 10 years old and a good make or brand of piano, if you will, and it will likely have good action for a learner - like me - but that likely the piano will have a weak sound at the low end of the piano or at the high end of the piano. So out I went into the piano world looking for a piano.

So I walked into a piano store and told the salesperson that I was looking for what I said above - but I added that it can have bullet holes and cigarette burns all over the piano - meaning I didn't care what the piano looked like only that it had a good piano action for a beginner piano player.

The salesperson said, I know of a excellent piano - Yamaha - that the person is selling because they are moving to something smaller and can't take the piano with them - so they are selling it.

Of course, it could be lies or half truths - right - so what do I know about the piano - or any piano - The salesperson said the price.

I told the saleperson, that it sounded good but it was 4,000 dollars over my budget and so I will have to save a little more and then come back and look for another piano in a few years.

I left the store, walked a block, and thought to myself that I am 64, if it is a good piano and I don't buy it, at 64 - regardless of price - it is not easy to get a decent piano that is 10 years old and good for a student, a beginner piano player - even if I lived to be a 200 year old person.

So I ran back to the store and said, "I will buy it, I will buy it, I will buy it. Give me the phone number."

So I left the store and called the person. I said to the person, I will buy your piano. They said, "no, no, no" you have to come over and play the piano." So I went to the house and played the piano. But there was a huge problem. I only ever played a 30 year old clavinova and my ability is only that I had learned 50 pages of a beginner piano method book called Leila Fletcher piano course 1. So I went to the house and the piano looked good, the piano sounded good, too good - because I hadn't heard or played an acoustic piano since I was 21 when I owned an acoustic yam upright for a year and didn't play it and sold it for pennies because I was young and young people move all the time. Funny about the action though, because I only played a digital for the last 6 months and then never touched a piano for 35 years - so I couldn't play the piano because an acoustic is more difficult to play if you haven't played one before.

So I said I would buy it and arranged the money and it was a done deal and I paid to have it delivered to my house/shack and the piano arrived and I tried to play it but it was difficult - and I probably didn't find out for a week or more - as a beginner - that the last 5 keys on the high end of the piano didn't sound right - so I instantly had a sick feeling in my stomach. So I was told to have the piano tuned in the fall and this was February so I had to wait until December to get the piano tuned because they said await until you turn the heat on in the place. And by the way, it took me 6 months to a year to learn to play the piano so it sounded and felt good underneath my fingers where my brain and my fingers worked together to make the sound right.

The tuner showed up and said nice piano. Is it yours and I said yes. He tuned it and left. I played the piano and the 5 keys that were bad were perfect. So it was a very, very, happy, scary, story.

So in the end, I need a decent piano to learn to play. I had a budget. I bought the piano firstly because I had bought several musical instruments over 30 years from the store, and so I trusted them as a company. I didn't know saleperson but I told them what I had bought over the 30 years in great detail so the saleperson knew I was telling the truth. And as I said, I told them what I wanted.

So the piano was in excellent condition and it was a Yam C2 in excellent condition only played by a 10 year old girl - how much damage can a lightweight small girl of 10 to do a piano - normally not much - over 10 years of playing the piano!

So it is all about trust and taking risks you can afford - and in the end it is all about luck when it comes right down to it - but one does their best and hopes for the best.

So I had to dig deeper because the price was the right price for the good piano - and it is worth every penny to me because I can play it ever day for the rest of my life -

In the end we all die and life is risky everyday.

cheers, and good luck
3N18PP


Last edited by Michael_99; 11/18/13 11:12 AM.
Re: Would you buy a piano without trying it first ? (first post)
algo #2184914 11/19/13 02:46 AM
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i wouldn't buy a backpack i hadn't loaded up & tried on, i wouldn't buy a bike i'd not ridden, & i would never buy a piano i hadn't played. the most honorable seller in the world could sell me a beautiful piano in brilliant condition that mightn't suit me at all.


thorn

-- Sometimes I poke. Even if I like you.

1920's Mason & Hamlin A
Re: Would you buy a piano without trying it first ? (first post)
Michael_99 #2184945 11/19/13 05:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
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Originally Posted by Michael_99
algo, I have read your post, here:

subject: Algo Would you buy a piano without trying it first ?

Hello everyone i have been reading this very helpful forum trying to decide for a piano for quite some time now. smirk

I want a new piano and combined with my tight budget i ended up choosing a feurich 122 with which i was quite satisfied. Recently though i found an offer from a dealer putting the kawai k3 close enough (pricewise) to the feurich to make me consider it.
I tried it (a Japanese model) and i really liked the action more than the feurich.

However and here lies the problem, the kawai dealer offer is for indonesian k3's (he says nowadays all of them are made in indonesia and they are the same quality as the Japanese ones)
I can probably believe him, he is a very respected dealer,
on the other hand though he doesn't offer any of these pianos for audition (the only demo he has is the japanese one for which the offer doesn't stand btw..)

Now i am a composer, and used to play piano for many years, i want to start playing again.
Finding a piano i like (in that budget ) was not easy, so the option of buying one without playing with it first is very uneasy for me.
I would go with the feurich, (i actually prefer its sound) but the action especially after i compared it with the k3 became an issue.

So i was wondering, is this something you would do ?
Should i not worry about possible differences between the demo piano and the indonesian one ?
What would you do ?

cheers

__________

The operative word is "trust".

First of all, when you are buying anything new or used, you still can't determine the product as to whether is good or not because you can't x-ray it, throw it against a wall to determine if it was well made or working okay or has flaws like a crack in the wood of the piano or the key action was made on a bad day by drunk workmen.

So it is all about risk you can take or a risk you can't afford.

Let me explain by example.

I am a beginner piano player, and I wanted a 3 legged piano - (politely spoken - saying baby grand sound too ostentatious so I only ever say 3 legged) that had good piano action that was affordable. I read on the internet in a blog that was run by a piano teacher halfway around the world that said go find a piano that was around 10 years old and a good make or brand of piano, if you will, and it will likely have good action for a learner - like me - but that likely the piano will have a weak sound at the low end of the piano or at the high end of the piano. So out I went into the piano world looking for a piano.

So I walked into a piano store and told the salesperson that I was looking for what I said above - but I added that it can have bullet holes and cigarette burns all over the piano - meaning I didn't care what the piano looked like only that it had a good piano action for a beginner piano player.

The salesperson said, I know of a excellent piano - Yamaha - that the person is selling because they are moving to something smaller and can't take the piano with them - so they are selling it.

Of course, it could be lies or half truths - right - so what do I know about the piano - or any piano - The salesperson said the price.

I told the saleperson, that it sounded good but it was 4,000 dollars over my budget and so I will have to save a little more and then come back and look for another piano in a few years.

I left the store, walked a block, and thought to myself that I am 64, if it is a good piano and I don't buy it, at 64 - regardless of price - it is not easy to get a decent piano that is 10 years old and good for a student, a beginner piano player - even if I lived to be a 200 year old person.

So I ran back to the store and said, "I will buy it, I will buy it, I will buy it. Give me the phone number."

So I left the store and called the person. I said to the person, I will buy your piano. They said, "no, no, no" you have to come over and play the piano." So I went to the house and played the piano. But there was a huge problem. I only ever played a 30 year old clavinova and my ability is only that I had learned 50 pages of a beginner piano method book called Leila Fletcher piano course 1. So I went to the house and the piano looked good, the piano sounded good, too good - because I hadn't heard or played an acoustic piano since I was 21 when I owned an acoustic yam upright for a year and didn't play it and sold it for pennies because I was young and young people move all the time. Funny about the action though, because I only played a digital for the last 6 months and then never touched a piano for 35 years - so I couldn't play the piano because an acoustic is more difficult to play if you haven't played one before.

So I said I would buy it and arranged the money and it was a done deal and I paid to have it delivered to my house/shack and the piano arrived and I tried to play it but it was difficult - and I probably didn't find out for a week or more - as a beginner - that the last 5 keys on the high end of the piano didn't sound right - so I instantly had a sick feeling in my stomach. So I was told to have the piano tuned in the fall and this was February so I had to wait until December to get the piano tuned because they said await until you turn the heat on in the place. And by the way, it took me 6 months to a year to learn to play the piano so it sounded and felt good underneath my fingers where my brain and my fingers worked together to make the sound right.

The tuner showed up and said nice piano. Is it yours and I said yes. He tuned it and left. I played the piano and the 5 keys that were bad were perfect. So it was a very, very, happy, scary, story.

So in the end, I need a decent piano to learn to play. I had a budget. I bought the piano firstly because I had bought several musical instruments over 30 years from the store, and so I trusted them as a company. I didn't know saleperson but I told them what I had bought over the 30 years in great detail so the saleperson knew I was telling the truth. And as I said, I told them what I wanted.

So the piano was in excellent condition and it was a Yam C2 in excellent condition only played by a 10 year old girl - how much damage can a lightweight small girl of 10 to do a piano - normally not much - over 10 years of playing the piano!

So it is all about trust and taking risks you can afford - and in the end it is all about luck when it comes right down to it - but one does their best and hopes for the best.

So I had to dig deeper because the price was the right price for the good piano - and it is worth every penny to me because I can play it ever day for the rest of my life -

In the end we all die and life is risky everyday.

cheers, and good luck
3N18PP

What a wonderful post! Very best wishes for many happy years of playing to come.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Would you buy a piano without trying it first ? (first post)
algo #2185008 11/19/13 09:32 AM
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Thanks y'all for your replies.
I talked with the feurich dealer and i think i can get the 125 with the same money as the k3
so i am even more confused now smile

Michael thanks for your inspiring story.
Indeed it is a risk, which risks to take and which not.
I know i am over-thinking it, and i want to be spontaneous,
actually i am with most things, not with music though..

I think i am torn between what i consider better dealer practice,
One dealer doesn't even allow my to by the piano without playing it first,
the other doesn't even provide me with the option !
And then there is the brand name kawai vs feurich the latter been lesser known
and not proven in the long term.

In my mind i am not only buying a piano, but building a relationship since the dealer will be the one to voice it, tune it, upgrade it in a few years down the line, etc (both of them offer these services)

I am still undecided, but i have to do so soon smile

Does anyone know if there are any discerning differences between a japanese and an indonesian k3 ?

cheers




Re: Would you buy a piano without trying it first ? (first post)
algo #2185039 11/19/13 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by algo
In my mind i am not only buying a piano, but building a relationship since the dealer will be the one to voice it, tune it, upgrade it in a few years down the line, etc (both of them offer these services)
Unless there are no other techs in your area there is no reason why this work has to be done by the dealer's tech. I think the most critical area where the relationship with the dealer is important is if there is any need for warranty work.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/19/13 10:24 AM.
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