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#2187008 - 11/22/13 07:15 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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James, can you at least tell us when you'll be able to tell us something? It would be like a pre-teaser, no harm done, right?;-)

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#2187038 - 11/22/13 08:04 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: bfb]  
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Kawai James Online content
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Originally Posted by bfb
I wish i could try some of them- know any retailers in the Atlanta GA USA MSA that carry the ES7 or MP6?


Not off the top of my head, I'm afraid.

The MP6 is typically sold by the musical instrument chain stores and online retailers rather than Kawai dealers. However, the ES7 should be available at both chain stores and Kawai dealers.

My recommendation would be to use the Dealer Locator on the Kawai US website, or contact my colleagues in America directly to enquire into where these models can be play-tested in your area.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2187040 - 11/22/13 08:08 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Hookxs]  
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Kawai James Online content
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Originally Posted by Hookxs
James, can you at least tell us when you'll be able to tell us something?


Not for a little while yet.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2187077 - 11/22/13 10:22 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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Hey guys check your mailboxes, there's a Kawai ad on the last page for an apparently unreleased product ... wink

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#2187304 - 11/23/13 01:01 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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I had a chance to sit down at two good upright APs and test some of this resonance stuff, and I have to admit it was an enlightening experience. That said, when I go back and sit at my CP40 and play it doesn't scream at me that I'm missing something, which is interesting.

Voxpops - I've been listening to the nice PS-5X piano tracks you posted to Soundcloud. Could you compare the action on the PS-5X to the CP4? (This question is also for anybody else who has had access to both.) Thanks.

#2187341 - 11/23/13 02:16 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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Hey guys, anyone using a CP4/40 as a controller for software piano/s? I'm curious how the delay time might be and how the playing experience is. Thanks.

#2187351 - 11/23/13 02:35 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: sunrisemusic]  
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Originally Posted by sunrisemusic
Hey guys, anyone using a CP4/40 as a controller for software piano/s? I'm curious how the delay time might be and how the playing experience is. Thanks.


I've used mine on the iPad 4 with iGrand Piano and CMP Grand Piano using the USB camera connector. These are nowhere near the quality of a computer-based software piano, but the latency was no problem. Works great with keyboard-oriented synths like Magellan and Addictive, too. I haven't got ambitious enough to go beyond the iPad.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I get noise in the speakers when I have the USB hooked up - don't quite understand why.

#2187353 - 11/23/13 02:39 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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Let me add that CMP Grand Piano is waaaaay better than the iGrand Piano stuff, with huge samples, and shows some promise. I've actually used it to play for long periods of time instead of the CFIII, just for a change.

Someone else pointed out somewhere that software pianos can be useful mixed with the built-in samples, and there seems to be something to this. In particular the iGrand Piano "Rock Upright" sounded kind of interesting mixed in on top of the CFIII. It's fun to play around with.

#2187358 - 11/23/13 02:57 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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I have a Casio PX-5S which is great in including so many features and incredible portability. I played the Yamaha CP4 in a London shop recently and the action feels very comfortable and satisfying. However apart from maybe being slightly quieter I am not sure if it much (if any) better than the Casio action. I feel that Casio have really nailed the good action versus portability issue with this current series of keyboards. I was pretty impressed with the sounds on the CP4 though I thought the electric pianos were better than the acoustic. Like others have said I am pretty surprised that there is no acoustic resonance in this top of the range Yamaha instrument. You might not notice it so much in a band situation but if you were playing slow tempo solo piano with plenty of pedalling I think you would certainly notice the lack of it. The Casio PX-5S has it and you can adjust the various parameters.

In my PX-5S I probably use about a hundredth of its potential as I have made performance settings for piano, piano with strings, a nice rhodes, a nice wurlie and a wurlie with strings which are basically the sounds I need. I have also made some backing tracks (don't shout at me) and for this the installed USB wave player is great. You can also set up one the controllers to adjust the wave file playback volume which is handy. If you had an iPad or other mp3 player it is just as easy to output this through the Casio. The USB to device in the CP4 is at the back (why?)and you seem to have to delve through a few menus to adjust the output volume. They also didn't mark the inputs and outputs on the top of the CP4 only at the back - why? The Casio has them all clearly marked at the top.

I cannot see why Casio in their Pro performance piano decide not to include a music stand. Do they think no one reads music any more? The CP4 has the facilities for a music stand but guess what - you have to pay extra for it. I simply put a firm music stand up behind the Casio which functions OK.

The Yamaha is twice the price of the Casio and so I guess you would expect it to be better.

It will be very interesting to see what Kawai come up with next - I think there is an opening for someone to produce a really outstanding and lightweight product.

Hope that's helpful

Tony

#2187363 - 11/23/13 03:10 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: funkycornwall]  
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Tony - thanks.

I read somewhere that the PS-5X started out as a successor to the XWP line and then was re-imagined along the way as a DP. Somehow this transition explains the odd omissions, like no music stand and no half-pedaling. Maybe Mike Martin will correct me.

#2187366 - 11/23/13 03:19 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: David Farley]  
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Originally Posted by David Farley
Voxpops - I've been listening to the nice PS-5X piano tracks you posted to Soundcloud. Could you compare the action on the PS-5X to the CP4? (This question is also for anybody else who has had access to both.) Thanks.

David, my replacement PX is still in transit to me, and so my poor memory of the first PX I owned some months ago is all I have to go on - and I only had a few hours with the CP4.

What I will say is that for its size and weight the PX-5S has a remarkably good action, which is capable of accomplishing most pianistic tasks. It takes a little while to get used to its response characteristics, and it has a fairly weighty feel. Repetition is good but not as fast/accurate as Roland's (either Ivory-Feel G or S). The CP4 has a more refined feel, and I would suggest that it's at least on a par with PHAIII. On an evening's gig, I would prefer to play the CP4's action over the Casio's.

I'm not sure this helps much, but if weight and price are not an issue, I'd go with the CP4. For me, since I didn't think the CP4s sounds warranted paying more than twice the price, I decided to opt for the weight/cost savings and try a Pianoteq hookup to the PX-5S.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2187367 - 11/23/13 03:21 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: funkycornwall]  
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Originally Posted by funkycornwall
Like others have said I am pretty surprised that there is no acoustic resonance in this top of the range Yamaha instrument. You might not notice it so much in a band situation but if you were playing slow tempo solo piano with plenty of pedalling I think you would certainly notice the lack of it. The Casio PX-5S has it and you can adjust the various parameters.

This is misleading IMHO. The CP4 does have (adjustable) damper resonance. It just does not have string resonance (where keys are held down but damper remains unpressed). Slow tempo solo with lots of pedal is hardly going to be a problem.

Lack of string resonance is not going to be a problem most of the time in a stage piano, where it is used as a (minor)keyboards addition to the track or mix in modern music. Most of the time, I said. I would guess Yamaha are happy with the degree of success they get using this sound model at presumably their target marketplace.

Maybe I will change my mind when I have play tested it.

Having said this I do agree with Rhodies post ,where I am surprised that the technology does not allow for a common design between stage and studio piano. In which case the lack of string resonance is a killer.


#2187369 - 11/23/13 03:22 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: funkycornwall]  
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Originally Posted by funkycornwall
It will be very interesting to see what Kawai come up with next - I think there is an opening for someone to produce a really outstanding and lightweight product.

So true! I wonder if they've been listening......


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2187373 - 11/23/13 03:29 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: spanishbuddha]  
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
The CP4 does have (adjustable) damper resonance. It just does not have string resonance (where keys are held down but damper remains unpressed). Slow tempo solo with lots of pedal is hardly going to be a problem.

Lack of string resonance is not going to be a problem most of the time in a stage piano, where it is used as a (minor)keyboards addition to the track or mix in modern music. Most of the time, I said.


I agree with this, but as others have pointed out, a high-end DP these days should be capable of covering all situations - not just stage use for modern music.

For me, it was the combination of lack of string resonance, audible (and quite ugly) stretching, static looping, somewhat limited dynamics, and the lack of a truly robust chassis that, when added together, made me extremely reluctant to part with $2k for the CP.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

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#2187378 - 11/23/13 03:36 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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Voxpops - thanks, that clarifies things for me.

#2187401 - 11/23/13 04:11 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: voxpops]  
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Originally Posted by voxpops

What I will say is that for its size and weight the PX-5S has a remarkably good action, which is capable of accomplishing most pianistic tasks. It takes a little while to get used to its response characteristics, and it has a fairly weighty feel. Repetition is good but not as fast/accurate as Roland's (either Ivory-Feel G or S). The CP4 has a more refined feel, and I would suggest that it's at least on a par with PHAIII. On an evening's gig, I would prefer to play the CP4's action over the Casio's.

I'm not sure this helps much, but if weight and price are not an issue, I'd go with the CP4. For me, since I didn't think the CP4s sounds warranted paying more than twice the price, I decided to opt for the weight/cost savings and try a Pianoteq hookup to the PX-5S.


i played both back to back and i think this sums it up nicely. The Casio's action felt a bit loose and to me represented additional work, the CP4's felt really tight but light and fast and was inspiring. for me that was definitely noticeable. But the Casio was over a thousand dollars cheaper. that is real money. you can't divorce that from the comparison. The casio may very well offer a lot more value per piano dollar than the $2000 CP4 and the CP4 may do the same vs the $3000 NP 2. money and value delivered per dollar spent cannot be ignored. That said, if you pay 1000 bucks for something that leaves you unsatisfied and the 2000 buck job stimulates your playing and makes you ultimately better at this, well that incremental 1000 spent has pretty significant value.

Last edited by bfb; 11/23/13 04:12 PM.

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
#2187429 - 11/23/13 05:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: bfb]  
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Originally Posted by bfb
if you pay 1000 bucks for something that leaves you unsatisfied and the 2000 buck job stimulates your playing and makes you ultimately better at this, well that incremental 1000 spent has pretty significant value.


That is so true - which is why Kawai James's ears should be burning (to a crisp!) right now. wink


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2187446 - 11/23/13 06:26 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: David Farley]  
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Originally Posted by David Farley
I mentioned this in another thread, but I get noise in the speakers when I have the USB hooked up - don't quite understand why.

see
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2108899/MIDI_input_direct_or_USB.html

#2187472 - 11/23/13 07:37 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: anotherscott]  
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by David Farley
I mentioned this in another thread, but I get noise in the speakers when I have the USB hooked up - don't quite understand why.

see
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2108899/MIDI_input_direct_or_USB.html


That explains it, thanks. There's no noise if I have the headphones plugged into the iPad - only when looped back to the board and out to the speakers. Must be a ground issue.

#2189075 - 11/27/13 07:59 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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Went to my local DP retailer yesterday to put my hands on the CP4. I had very high expectations from reading the KC thread, but also more realistic ones after reading this thread.
I really, really tried to like it, but I couldn't. I found the main piano sounds to be quite uninspiring with lacking decay and a bit of a metallic tone to them. I listened with Sennheiser headphones and also the monitors provided on the spot.
Now, I'm aware that the CP4 probably works perfect once your're onstage using a pa system, or playing solo at a reception or party with background noise and what not. I do these kinds of gigs, but I also play a lot at home in front of good studio monitors or with headphones. For my taste, the CP4 is simply not good enough for the that. Just too sterile and un-organic. This is 2013 and the bar needs to be raised.
After some years of experience with what the Roland Supernatural sound can do, I simply do not get why a major brand like Yamaha don't get their act together and take that great leap forward in creating a DP that will blow us all away -whatever use the players will throw at it.



Last edited by thomsurf; 11/27/13 09:13 AM.

Roland RD800, EV ZXA-1.
#2189104 - 11/27/13 09:39 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: thomsurf]  
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Originally Posted by thomsurf
Went to my local DP retailer yesterday to put my hands on the CP4. I had very high expectations from reading the KC thread, but also more realistic ones after reading this thread.
I really, really tried to like it, but I couldn't. I found the main piano sounds to be quite uninspiring with lacking decay and a bit of a metallic tone to them. I listened with Sennheiser headphones and also the monitors provided on the spot.
Now, I'm aware that the CP4 probably works perfect once your're onstage using a pa system, or playing solo at a reception or party with background noise and what not. I do these kinds of gigs, but I also play a lot at home in front of good studio monitors or with headphones. For my taste, the CP4 is simply not good enough for the that. Just too sterile and un-organic. This is 2013 and the bar needs to be raised.
After some years of experience with what the Roland Supernatural sound can do, I simply do not get why a major brand like Yamaha don't get their act together and take that great leap forward in creating a DP that will blow us all away -whatever use the players will throw at it.




I was kind of on the same line of thinking. This is probably why I didn't plunge and get the CP4 after I played it and decided that my Yamaha P-120 was still adequate for my purposes. Honestly I understand why some people here on the forums have been sticking with their aging CP33 and others still buying them new in 2013. If you want a solid "cheap" Yamaha (as in price) that offers basic piano functions, there ya go! Why pay over 2k for a piano that doesn't even attempt to offer the same specs as every other DP manufacturer in 2013!

So I'm holding on to my P-120 until Kawai or even Roland release something that offers a better portable piano experience, hopefully at NAMM.....like we say every year, lol


Rhodes MkII 73 '79, Yamaha CP4
#2189181 - 11/27/13 01:11 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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Does anyone think Yamaha is reading these threads? I guess if you fork over a large chunk of money for Avantgrand, then Yamaha delivers (at least in my case - I love both sound and action,) but it's not portable wink I've owned a p-100, p80 and p90 and it wasn't until I got a Roland FP4 did I realize what I've always hated about Yamaha stage pianos - sterile, un-inspired samples. In the store for 10 minutes you'll hear a piano, better than a lot of other brands, but in the real world of playing often, you realize the issue.

Last edited by 36251; 11/27/13 01:13 PM.

AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2226235 - 02/05/14 10:46 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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I am almost ready to get the cp4.

I am mainly interested in AP sounds because that is what I will use 95 percent of the time.

I have been comparing the following:

Kawai ES7- sounds good in demos but I have not been able to play it in person.
I wish Kawai would make their instruments more accessable.
I went to the Kawai dealer in town and they said they might get one in- that was over two months ago. They wanted me to play on one of their home models because it has the same action as the ES7, and then buy the ES7 blind.I cant buy a DP without playing(and hearing it in person) first. I also think the ES7 might be too heavy and bulky for my gigging purposes.

Kurtzweil Artis - also sounds good but I didn't like the action at all.

Nord DP's (Stage II)- They are the best sounding and most realistic but too expensive. I would be worried taking a $4000 board to my gigs. I would be afraid it would be A) stolen or B) broken.

Roland 700NX - It has a very nice piano sound. It is beautiful sounding, almost too perfect that it becomes artificial at times. It is definitely a contender though. I don't like the weight.

I think I would like to play the new Rd800. It is lighter than the 700 and may even sound better. I listened to the demos and wasn't blown away. I would like to hear a live recording of it and also hear it in person.

Yamaha CP4
I have been impressed with the online audio and video demos. I need to get my hands on it though. I was most impressed with some of the "unofficial" demos on YouTube. These were live vids of a gigging situation. The cp4 sounded good through the PA- full bodied and believable. To me it is how these pianos perform live that is most important.
I am giving the edge to the Cp4 for this reason.




Yamaha CP4(gigs), Kawai MP7(home), Yamaha CP33(gigs), Yamaha P80(retired), four QSC K10's, Allen and Heath Zed 10fx mixer, Sennheiser HD598, Bachendorff acoustic 45"
#2226357 - 02/05/14 02:59 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Kevin Keys]  
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You could try the Nord Piano 2 over the Stage. It has way better action then the Stage. I hate playing piano from the Stage.

CP4 definitely plays and sounds better then the ES7.

Ditto on the Artis. When Kurzweil puts at least the TP40L Fatar action on that board, I could see it becoming a more serious contender among all the others.

The size and weight of the new 800 would probably take it off my radar. Often people don't figure the extra weight of even what a soft case adds. Even a basic Gator/SKB with wheels is what ? ...at least 15 lbs. ? So you're back to at least 60 lbs. with the 800.

I don't know the gross weight, but my NP2, in its dedicated Nord soft case, at times feels about as much as I wanna deal with these days at age 60. wink

Again the 800 does have an excellent tone in a few of those demos, and maybe it would sound good live through good speakers. I've just not had good history overall with Rolands live . If it were me, I'd play it safe and go with the CP4. I've played it twice now and it's solid--sonically, action, schlepping weight and build quality.

Personally I'm hanging with the Nord for the time being, as I just spent a ton of dough on a Steve Potts custom titanium mountain bike...I could have bought 4 CP4s with what I'm going to spend on this bike...prioities though. grin


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
#2226571 - 02/05/14 08:58 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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Dave Ferris --

Just curious, acoustic piano sounds only, how do the two pianos (Nord Piano 2 and the CP-4)compare?

#2226574 - 02/05/14 09:05 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
You could try the Nord Piano 2 over the Stage. It has way better action then the Stage. I hate playing piano from the Stage.

That's interesting. I only had an opportunity to play an NP2 briefly, at a store (not even sure whether it was the NP2 or just NP anymore, but think it was the 2), and thought it felt much better than the NS2. But having read that they are supposedly basically the same action, I thought maybe it had to do with the playing angle or something (it was wall-mounted and angled down). So it's good to see some other confirmation that the NP2 action actually does feel different/better.

I actually briefly considered buying one, despite the fact that it's heavier than what I like to travel with (even though lighter than most of its competitors). The deal killer for me was that I couldn't set its two sounds to two different MIDI channels. I wanted to play just piano from the internal action, while triggering one of its other sounds from an external board. Without that functionality, it wasn't nearly as appealing to me.

#2226587 - 02/05/14 09:26 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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Marko in Boston Offline
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Marko in Boston  Offline
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Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

CP4 definitely plays and sounds better then the ES7.


I own the ES7 and played CP4 many times. I was ready to buy the CP4 for gigs. ES7 sounds so much better and virtual technician is amazing. However, CP4 sounds great and action is fantastic, but ES7 just sounds tremendous. I wish I had the functionality of the CP4 with the ES7 sound. Please Kawai, release MP7 or MP11 soon!


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2226590 - 02/05/14 09:38 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: btcomm]  
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Dave Ferris Offline
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Dave Ferris  Offline
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Originally Posted by btcomm
Dave Ferris --

Just curious, acoustic piano sounds only, how do the two pianos (Nord Piano 2 and the CP-4)compare?


Hi btcomm. I haven't had them side by side to do an A/B comparison but I will say the thing that immediately stuck out for me and was very obvious, was the way the CP4 , like the CP5, is perfectly even up & down in all registers for single note jazz lines/soloing.

The XL Fazioli, that I exclusively use for jazz is quite excellent as far as detail, especially when chording. But while it's more consistent then any of the other Nord samples, it still thins out in the upper registers. It literally drives me mad when in the middle of a solo it doesn't have the same impact, or runs out of gas, as another group of notes, say an octave down. It really does affect how and what I play...mostly for the negative. I know I sound like a broken record on this but it really an issue that I hope Nord addresses in the future...and I think they will.

All the lame action and uneven samples issues aside--the Nord Piano 2, with improved D/A converters from the original NP88, is still really a great gigging board for jazz and all styles really. I know I've bitched and moaned ad nauseam about it but I wouldn't have held onto it , for going on 2 years this June, if it wasn't doing a great job on gigs.

I will at some point later this year, after the big $$$$ hit from the bike wears off, no doubt get a CP4. But could very well see myself holding onto the Nord.

To really give an honest opinion on the detail and overall quality of the two though-- I'd have to have them both side by side going through my fairly high end system---JMK Audio JM-110 di/pre and RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers.

Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
You could try the Nord Piano 2 over the Stage. It has way better action then the Stage. I hate playing piano from the Stage.

That's interesting. I only had an opportunity to play an NP2 briefly, at a store (not even sure whether it was the NP2 or just NP anymore, but think it was the 2), and thought it felt much better than the NS2. But having read that they are supposedly basically the same action, I thought maybe it had to do with the playing angle or something (it was wall-mounted and angled down). So it's good to see some other confirmation that the NP2 action actually does feel different/better.

I actually briefly considered buying one, despite the fact that it's heavier than what I like to travel with (even though lighter than most of its competitors). The deal killer for me was that I couldn't set its two sounds to two different MIDI channels. I wanted to play just piano from the internal action, while triggering one of its other sounds from an external board. Without that functionality, it wasn't nearly as appealing to me.


No you weren't imagining things...the NP2 or NP88 is definitely better playing then the Stage. They might list them has the same actions but there has to have been some tweaking going on there. I think people coming from acoustic pianos are more sensitive to this then rock keyboard types. Who are Nord's main market anyway....not guys like me. wink

Yeah, like I said, in its case the darn thing isn't light like a Casio or something, but I do appreciate the solid build on it. Yes my needs are very simple and don't involve anything MIDI, but I think after all this time and reading a baziliion of my posts, that all goes without saying. grin


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
#2226643 - 02/05/14 11:25 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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btcomm Offline
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California
Thanks, Dave.

#2227342 - 02/07/14 09:05 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 Review First Impressions [Re: Rough Diamond]  
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Rainman Offline
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Rainman  Offline
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Dave Ferris: you said "the Nord Piano 2, with improved D/A converters from the original NP88". Can you elaborate on that? This is the first time I hear/read about that. I thought the sound is 100% the same.

How did you percieve the difference between the sound of the two NPs? And where did you find that info?

Thanks for any info!

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