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"Pearl River .... It is the first Chinese piano manufacturer whose annual output and sales volume exceed 100,000, and its domestic market share remains at 20% or more. In 2014, when the investment project of the company is finished, its piano output and sales volume will climb to 160,000 units/year.."

In general...."In 2012, China’s piano output reached 379,746 units, accounting for 76.9% of the global piano output; in 2010-2012, the piano import volume surpassed the export volume in China, helping China be a leading piano importer in the world."

Global and China Piano Industry 2012-2013

schwammerl.

Of course, I'm generalizing. I'm referring to the majority of Chinese pianos that they're producing now and have been for years/decades. It's a slow turn-over industry so it takes a while for the older/entry level pianos to make their way out of the system.

I'd like to try some of these, but there isn't an approachable dealer in the SF/Oakland area. There are some in San Jose which I'll try to check out when I'm down there.

You mean like what we did in North America from say about 1800 until the 1920's in order to build the manufacturing empire that dominated the world for a while? With people/kids working in sweat shops for 18 hours per day without benefits or safety enforcement?

We cannot throw stones at others just because we did it first and "progressed" past that point.

Jonathan

Always amuses me when America complains about theft of intellectual property. Go back a bit in history and they paid no royalties on the likes of Gilbert & Sullivan.

The video, uploaded by "Feeburg Pianos" states: "Perzina grand pianos provided by Freeburg Pianos - Exclusive Perzina Dealer".
This is a promotional video by a dealer for his product. Most likely, the bank owns these pianos...

So what is your point?

PS: I would not judge a tone by the audio in a youtube video, and these pianos are no exception - the sound is strange. I would have to hear them in person or in a high quality recording.

By that logic we should not oppose oppression of women and minorities, slavery, genocide and many other very evil things anywhere in the world.

So we should applaud the Chinese for repeating the injustices in western history?

If a Chinese piano maker, (or any other maker for that matter), would set up independent testing of comparative durability, publish the results, and establish that their new $40K piano will outwear any other made-then they will be competitive.

No one has done comparative testing of piano durability.

I do know from my experience servicing pianos for over 40 years that the methods and materials I use in my rebuilds-make more durable and easier to maintain pianos than any maker of new pianos in the world.

Christopher Tavernier owns two Perzina grand pianos:

http://www.freeburgpianos.com/who-is-our-favorite-piano-prodigy/

If you read my response closely, my point is that certain Chinese made pianos are not "only appropriate" for entry level players. There seems to be an implication that every advanced player owns a so called tier 1 piano, which just isn't so. Moreover, there are differences among makes of Chinese pianos like any other country producing pianos.

Further, I know what a Perzina sounds like because I happen to own one. I chose to purchase it not because it was all I could afford, but because I was really impressed by it. It's funny how if a "non-tier 1" piano sounds great on youtube, somehow something must be flawed (the speakers, recording equipment, etc.) Yet others on these forums have posted video and recordings of artists playing tier 1 pianos as examples of their sound quality. Right now, its the best I can do for you. I can list a number of things about the Perzina build quality and sound that make it an impressive piano but that's the topic of another thread. And yes, some of us do love our Chinese made pianos. Nothing wrong with that. I don't feel like I've settled for anything. And oh, I don't work for Freeburg nor am I a dealer. I'm just a piano lover in Southern California, much too far away from them.

How about the shop that treated Steve Jobs fairly!

Based on these series of videos, I don't see a stereotypical sweatshop. I see a modern facility using high tech equipment to produce their pianos in a humane manner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dipxeDV2VW8&feature=c4-overview&list=UUAyApMsH3DslDtxdZrgnQng

I was not commenting on how brand X pianos are manufactured. I was commenting on the ridiculous sweeping statement made. Or maybe I should call it a dangerous and irresponsible attitude....

Yep, like I said, "approachable." That shop doesn't exist to me.

Yea easy to say from your high horse, how else do you want them to compete ? With the "fair and nice" rules you set up ? fairness is a privilege that comes with wealth and capitalism is evil in itself. The only reason you see what china does as injustice is because it is hurting and threatening you financially.

Predicting the future is always difficult and I'll leave that to others. Instead, I just wanted to mention that about 1 1/2 years ago I was in a neighbor's house and noticed a grand piano in his living room. It turned out to be a Perzina of about the size of a C3. I asked if I could play it for a few minutes and was more than astonished at how good it sounded. The action was a bit heavy, but the sound was simply amazing--better than most pianos of its size--even in comparison to some of the high-priced brands. I immediately tried to find a dealer in the greater Boston area, and was disappointed when I found none.

Okay, folks, I'll admit that I've enjoyed reading this thread myself, though I don't have anything to add

Except... it seems to be heading into the realm of politics and ideology that does not best serve the forum. I hope this message serves as an appropriate warning. If not, well, you all know what happens next...

Rick

How about if we leave the political aspects out of the discussion and restrict ourselves to discussing the pianos coming from China?

I suspect that $40,000 Chinese pianos (or whatever their inflation-adjusted cost would be at that point) will be taken a lot more seriously, when China's GDP exceeds that of the US and we're relegated to being "Number 2" in the world.

Chinese pianos continue to improve year to year, and will continue to cannibalize sales at the lower end of the piano market, utilizing their increasing quality. At some point, the Chinese will be able to produce pianos that may rival or exceed the quality and sound - that those pricey German piano brands now possess. When that time arrives ...and if this forum is still around, I imagine there will be several threads lamenting the "demise" of these noble brands.

Chinese pianos sell well to those of us that might want a new instrument, but are simply not able to afford that new Steinway or many of the excellent Japanese or European brands. Not all of us can go schlepping endlessly around the country or world in search of that perfect "previously owned", "dream piano" at an affordable price. These pianos represent an acceptable compromise to many middle-class folks who would otherwise end up with a digital piano in its place.

I know there are many people on the forum that look askance at those of us who end up purchasing these pianos. But, in my case, I played (badly at the time! ) enough high-end instruments to get a feel for what I might be missing. Did the Steinway M that I played, sound better than my Ritmuller GH-170R? It sure did! But, to me, given my economic circumstances, it wasn't $55,000 better!

The Chinese piano brands supply a certain market segment just as the Japanese once did, and if they continue to go upscale, they will find resistance points that will begin to decrease as their "perceived quality" rises. I guess "Ming Vases" might have been relatively inexpensive at some point too!

I have my doubts too. Not that the shop exists, but that Steve Jobs ever set foot in it…

That's what [most] customers are doing more and more every day.

Just sold 2 uprights that competed head-on with pianos twice, even three times the price.

Price was not the issue.

Norbert