Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
55 registered members (amad23, Beemer, ChatNoir, ando, casinitaly, 12 invisible), 1,467 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2181637 - 11/13/13 03:03 PM Exploding hammer repair  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 403
Dan Casdorph Offline
Full Member
Dan Casdorph  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 403
Morgantown, West Virginia
I've seen the thread wrap style, and used clamps, but I was wondering what techniques paople use for an action where most are coming off the moldings. Most verticals these days aren't worth a new set of hammers, and I'm exploring repair options.

Thanks


Casdorph Piano Service
Morgantown, WV
www.casdorphpiano.com
All pianos are bald ones.
(ad 800)
PTG 2017 Convention
PTG Convention 2017 St Louis
#2181652 - 11/13/13 03:27 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,015
David Boyce Online content
1000 Post Club Member
David Boyce  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,015
Scotland
I've had good success using small-size plastic cable ties. You can glue the felt to the molding with CA then put a cable tie round it and pull it tight. Very quick - much faster than wrapping thread. It bites into the felt and doesn't slip off. Trim the end flush, of course. It can be left on permanently, or just long enough for the CA glue to hold. If you email me I can send you pics.

Last edited by David Boyce; 11/13/13 03:38 PM.
#2181670 - 11/13/13 03:56 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Emmery  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
To get optimal results when doing this you want to be able to put some good tension on the felt, stretching it backwards close to where it was originally. If you don't, you can get a noticable difference on the tone with many of the higher partials muffled out...sort of like a needling job that was over done. Although this may not matter much on a piano not worth the price to change out the hammers in the first place, the tighter you get that felt the better it will blend in with the undamaged hammers around it.

I have a clamping device I made out of a large pair of vice grips. I molded 5 different sized forms to the jaws of it using Polymorph, thermo setting plastic. They generally cover a range of hammer sizes from the bass to mid treble. Hammer must be removed from piano to get enough room for it to clamp. I use a small dab of Gorilla glue under the felt, clamp it shut and after it sets, I drill a vertical hole through the back part and wire it for reinforcement just like the factories often do.

This works well for 1 offs but is slow if you have a bunch of them to do.



Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#2181708 - 11/13/13 04:41 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline
500 Post Club Member
Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA

Hi Dan - I wrap the occasional set of hammers for about 1/3 the charge as a new set of hammers. Here's what they look like when I'm done:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

And here's the wrapping in progress for one hammer:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

Whenever I do this I always strongly recommend wrapping every hammer, not just the ones coming loose, otherwise there will most likely be continual problems down the road - a lot like replacing broken bridle straps. Might as well do the whole works while you're at it. Chuck




Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2181777 - 11/13/13 05:35 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 335
Bojan Babic Offline
Full Member
Bojan Babic  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 335
Vojvodina, Serbia
That looks great Mr. Behm. Like some kind of an ethno-art work.


Bojan Babic
piano technician and tuner
Sid, Vojvodina, Serbia
_____________________________
bojanbabic@yahoo.com
www.klaviri.blogspot.com
#2181790 - 11/13/13 05:50 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Bojan Babic]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline
500 Post Club Member
Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA

Hi Bojan - Nice to hear from you. Hope things are going well in your end of the world.

The trick in doing these is to use heavy-duty upholstery thread - not just your typical sewing thread. I glue the molding to the felt, then smear a bit of glue on the outside of the hammer over the thread. I've never had one let go after fixing this way.

Obviously, this is not a repair which would be used on a top-end instrument, but for a little Winter spinet or some such piano, it helps keep the piano up and running without the necessity of a repair the owner can't afford. Chuck



Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
#2181854 - 11/13/13 07:04 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 551
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member
Phil D  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 551
London, England
Damn you, Chuck, and your amazing attention to detail!

#2181880 - 11/13/13 07:35 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Phil D]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted by Phil D
Damn you, Chuck, and your amazing attention to detail!


Phil wins...



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#2181938 - 11/13/13 10:39 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 41
Tuner X Offline
Full Member
Tuner X  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 41
Un-waxed dental floss, glue,don't leave home without it. In the shop I use stainless safety wire inserted like Steinway NY or "T" wires from BKB Germany.
Cheers

#2182009 - 11/14/13 12:18 AM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Chuck Behm, CPT-E]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,996
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Maximillyan  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,996
KZ
Originally Posted by Chuck Behm

I wrap
And here's the wrapping in progress for one hammer:

Yet another foot wraps .
If you need to change old pin for junk piano. Don't make it's. There are "foot wraps method" with cardboard

#2182141 - 11/14/13 08:37 AM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Phil D]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline
500 Post Club Member
Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Quote
"Damn you, Chuck, and your amazing attention to detail!"- Phil D


Really, Phil, that's a bit harsh to damn me for showing how to use a bit of thread. I mean, usually when I get damned by somebody it's for something worthwhile, like when I cut in front of them in traffic - very understandable then (I'd do the same thing myself, in fact!)

Actually, I just have fun wrapping hammers this way - reminds me of when I was a kid. My dad - rest in peace - was a band director and made oboe reeds to bring in some extra income. He paid me the princely sum of 10 cents a reed to do the initial wrapping of the cane to the tube using a winder. I enjoyed doing it and got really good at it.

Dad was really the one that taught me that the "devil's in the detail" - that it's your attention to the small things that make a big difference in whether something appears professional or whether it looks amateurish. I always try to keep that attitude in mind when I'm doing piano repair in general and case refinishing in particular.

Anyway, have a nice day, Phil. Don't fall off your bike! Chuck





Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
#2182212 - 11/14/13 10:55 AM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Emmery  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
Chuck, do you use a special kind of thread for this? Have you thought of using white thread instead of black (blends a bit better with the felt)? Not that it looks like a mish mash job, I'm actually quite impressed with the uniformity of how you do this from note to note.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#2182218 - 11/14/13 11:17 AM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Emmery]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline
500 Post Club Member
Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 849
Boone, Iowa, USA
Quote
"Have you thought of using white thread instead of black (blends a bit better with the felt)?" - Emmery


Hi Emmery - No, I hadn't considered using white thread, but that is a good idea - I'll see if it's available. What I use is a heavy duty upholstery thread. You really have to pull hard to break it, unlike ordinary thread which breaks way too easily.

The only trick to my method of wrapping is to start near the tapered ends of the hammer felt with several windings to hold the thread in place then move outward at an angle to about the middle of the hammer. I then double back towards the starting point, ending at the same point as where I began. At this point a double knot is tied:

[img:center]http://[Linked Image][/img]

With the hammer butt secured in the palm of my right hand (see photo) and one end of the thread pulled tight, I use the excess from the other end of the string to make the initial knot. As I said before, I smear a little Titebond over the sides, let it dry a bit, then put the hammer back in the action. Start to finish, it's about a 4 hour job for the entire set.

As I stated before, this repair (obviously) is not intended for a high quality piano, but for a customer on a budget who just doesn't want more and more hammers coming to pieces, it works great. I've never had a hammer come undone once the repair is made. I know other technicians have other methods which work well also - this is just what I do myself. Chuck



Last edited by Chuck Behm; 11/14/13 11:18 AM.

Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
#2224530 - 02/02/14 10:21 AM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 83
leomtodd Offline
Full Member
leomtodd  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 83
Limerick Maine
Thank you I just learned something today. I am new to piano technology I love the wrapping of the hammers.

#2224606 - 02/02/14 01:14 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Dan Casdorph]  
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 430
Tuneless Offline
Full Member
Tuneless  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 430
AZ, USA
By the way Chuck. I can see that eventually, the thread may get in the way of reshaping, assuming one will reshape to the end of the hammers life given the piano is not worth a new set of hammers. But your example looks like the owner is not doing a lot of piano playing.


Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano yet but getting there.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.
#2224659 - 02/02/14 03:06 PM Re: Exploding hammer repair [Re: Tuneless]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 50
subcontra Offline
Full Member
subcontra  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 50
You might want to fix the thread title - I at first thought you were looking to repair exploding hammers from ffffff playing!


Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Blanking out randomly?
by luckiest_charm. 06/24/17 04:44 AM
Peter Bence Arrangements
by Groove On. 06/24/17 04:40 AM
Software Piano Comparison at KVRAudio
by Joe Garfield. 06/24/17 01:50 AM
Curious, how often do you play on an acoustic?
by Gombessa. 06/23/17 09:25 PM
How about those spinets?
by RonTuner. 06/23/17 06:46 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,419
Posts2,638,565
Members88,169
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0