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#2179549 - 11/09/13 11:13 AM Which fingering would you prefer?  
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JanVan Offline
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JanVan  Offline
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I worked out the fingering for Bach invention no. 3 but there is one passage for which I can't make up my mind.

The passage is the RH for bars 6 to 8:

[Linked Image]

The bottom fingering is the standard fingering recommended in most editions I could check. The top fingering, with yellow background, is what I came up with myself.

The upside of the yellow fingering is that it does not change hand positions and has a more consistent fingering (e.g. compare bars 5 and 7). The downside is possibly the use of the thumb on the black key.

Now my question is, which fingering do you think would be more natural and easy especially at higher speeds?

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#2179606 - 11/09/13 01:06 PM Re: Which fingering would you prefer? [Re: JanVan]  
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Polyphonist Offline
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Polyphonist  Offline
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The bottom fingering is far better.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2179638 - 11/09/13 03:05 PM Re: Which fingering would you prefer? [Re: JanVan]  
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wouter79 Offline
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I'm not into Bach and I don't have access to a keyboard right now

But using thumb on blacks usually is not a good idea. Also using it immediately after a position swap downwards seems not a good idea - your thumb will be locked up by 2 crossing over it.

If you really want to do it that way , how about taking the d the 2nd time with 5 already, b with 3.



[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2179733 - 11/09/13 06:41 PM Re: Which fingering would you prefer? [Re: JanVan]  
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Forrest Halford Offline
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Forrest Halford  Offline
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How about 5 2 at the first two notes of measures 6 & 8 (E5 & C#5), and keeping the bottom fingering otherwise?

Forrest


PTG Associate Member
Haydn Hob. XVI: 23 in F major
Debussy Arabesque #1, Reverie
Bach BWV 874, 883
My beliefs are only that unless I can prove them.
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#2179749 - 11/09/13 07:04 PM Re: Which fingering would you prefer? [Re: JanVan]  
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malkin Offline
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If ever I can't decide on fingering and one of the choices is the standard or normal way, I choose the normal way.


Having power is not nearly as important as what you choose to do with it.
– Roald Dahl

#2179763 - 11/09/13 07:59 PM Re: Which fingering would you prefer? [Re: JanVan]  
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Andy Platt Offline
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Andy Platt  Offline
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Bottom, without a question.


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2179793 - 11/09/13 09:13 PM Re: Which fingering would you prefer? [Re: JanVan]  
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carlos88 Offline
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Bottom.

Don't think of it as a hand shift movement, because it shouldn't be. Keeping your thumb and hand still, cross your second finger over your thumb to the black key. Your fifth finger is still in position to play the e in the next measure, with almost no hand movement.

Try playing it hands separate at a fast speed - you'll notice that your hand can stay pretty still and relaxed with the cross over.

What makes this cross-over movement easy is that thumb is short and the second finger is long, and it is attempting to reach a black key in a higher vertical plane. If the g# was instead a g, this cross-over movement would either be harder or inappropriate.

With the alternate fingering (starting with 4), because your thumb is short, you'll either need to shift your hand towards the piano to reach the g#, or will have to rotate it inwards, which becomes awkward at a higher speed.

Same thing in measure 20. Thumb on the final d, second finger reaches over for the c#. That leaves the 3rd finger positioned for the initial d in measure 21.




I'd rather play badly than not at all...
#2179911 - 11/10/13 02:20 AM Re: Which fingering would you prefer? [Re: carlos88]  
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JanVan Offline
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JanVan  Offline
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Thank you all for helping me make up my mind. I will definitely stay with the bottom fingering.

I admit that I sometimes get carried away with 'creative' fingering and usually it gets me into trouble.

Quote
What makes this cross-over movement easy is that thumb is short and the second finger is long, and it is attempting to reach a black key in a higher vertical plane. If the g# was instead a g, this cross-over movement would either be harder or inappropriate.


Carlos, +1 for the expert explanation on why the standard fingering works so well for this particular passage.

#2180036 - 11/10/13 10:53 AM Re: Which fingering would you prefer? [Re: JanVan]  
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neuralfirings Offline
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Same, I'd go with bottom for the explanation Carlos gave. I would make one modification:

[Linked Image]

A few reasons:

1. Finger 2 just played the G#, whereas Finger 3 is right there so it feels more natural. Finger 2 isn't jumping as much.

2. Musically, I feel the piece moves as indicated by the blue arrows. The climax is on the high F. I think adding subtle breaths where the blue lines are will add some drama. Using Finger 5 before the blue line, and Finger 4 after the blue line will add a subtle breath naturally, since are adjacent fingers spanning non-adjacent notes.

That's how I want to shape the notes, so I find fingering that helps me do that.

How do you want to shape your notes?


Working on Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata, Mvt 3.

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