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Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: lilydell] #2178859
11/08/13 04:24 AM
11/08/13 04:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
Spanish living in UK
evamar Offline
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Spanish living in UK
Well done, congratulations for your new piano, I'm sure you're itching to get it, so good thing you'll be busy. laugh

It's absolutely essential that one tries different makers and models in person. It is you who has to choose, as they feel different to everybody and the touch is the most important thing.

I really liked the Rolands, the action was fantastic, but the keybed was too noisy for me. That was the main reason to discard them. The higher models were amazing... but too expensive for me and still noisy, which really annoyed me. I only really tried the 505 and LX-15 as the previous ones had a noticeable worse action and I discarded them very fast, so really cannot comment on the 507, it wasn't on display.

There's a thread from Kawai James regarding new Roland models, and it seems that they have addressed the noise, so you might want to try these before committing to the 507.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2177201/New%20Roland%20digitals:%20HP508,%20HP.html#Post2177201

... never mind... I'm sure they are pretty used to "weirdos" grin


Last edited by evamar; 11/08/13 05:09 AM.

Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

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Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: evamar] #2179114
11/08/13 02:57 PM
11/08/13 02:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
NYC
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lilydell Offline OP
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Quote
There's a thread from Kawai James regarding new Roland models, and it seems that they have addressed the noise, so you might want to try these before committing to the 507.


Thanks evamar - I didn't notice any noise at all - but it's definitely something to think about. I put down a deposit on the 507 but I'm sure I'd be able to make a switch. I'll check them out when they become available.

Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: lilydell] #2179360
11/08/13 09:14 PM
11/08/13 09:14 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 276
UK
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Enthusiast Offline
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You mentioned wooden keys were essential but interestingly I don't think any of the Rolands have wooden keys.

Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: lilydell] #2179445
11/09/13 04:53 AM
11/09/13 04:53 AM
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Posts: 300
Prague, Czech Rep.
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Clayman Offline
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@Enthusiast, that's a good point but if lilydell really finds Roland best fitting his (or her? smile ) tastes, then I think it does not matter that much.


-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: lilydell] #2179451
11/09/13 05:37 AM
11/09/13 05:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18
Munich, Germany
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IsaacH Offline
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Hi,
I saw your thread, and I decided I need to weigh in here. You sound like me, I also don't care about the bells and whistles on keyboards, just the most realistic response and sound possible.
Today, that means acquiring the Kawaii VPC-1, and Synthogy's Ivory ii, American concert D. You'll not find a better sound and feel out there.
I tried every other digital piano that exists, and they all feel a bit off. Additionally, no Digital Piano has a sound that will match ivory. You should just forget about inbuilt sounds, there all rubbish.
With a $6000 budget, you will easily afford this combo, plus a fast enough Computer to it run it.

Really, don't waste your time with anything else. I'm a concert pianist and I actually use this to practice every day and find the transition to a real Steinway Grand very easy.

Another random tip. For headphones, buy the Sony MDR-7506 Headphones. there about 100 bucks, and exactly perfect. Strong, professional, and a completely flat response which dosen't fool the ear and mess up your EQ. All those other expensive headphones out there are not for playing music or recording, there for people who want to listen to finished, mixed music, and have it sound as good as possible. So not for professionals who need a clean, untainted sound.

As far as monitors, for your budget, get a pair of RCF: ART 310-A MK III, you'll love me for it.

I hope this helps,

Cheers!

Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: Clayman] #2179480
11/09/13 07:52 AM
11/09/13 07:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,213
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anotherscott Online content
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Originally Posted by Enthusiast
You mentioned wooden keys were essential but interestingly I don't think any of the Rolands have wooden keys.
Originally Posted by Clayman
@Enthusiast, that's a good point but if lilydell really finds Roland best fitting his (or her? smile ) tastes, then I think it does not matter that much.

Exactly. Which gets back to my frequent point... don't get hung up on a features list. The things you think are essential can easily go out the window once you get your fingers and ears around the things, and it looks like the OP discovered that as well.

Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: Clayman] #2179521
11/09/13 10:06 AM
11/09/13 10:06 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 276
UK
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Enthusiast Offline
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UK
Originally Posted by Clayman
@Enthusiast, that's a good point but if lilydell really finds Roland best fitting his (or her? smile ) tastes, then I think it does not matter that much.


Yes exactly. If you started out with the idea that wooden keys were a must you'd have have limited your choice and not even tried the Rolands. There was a topic on this subject in fact.
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...0Wooden%20Keys%20&%20Triple%20S.html

Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: lilydell] #2180218
11/10/13 05:57 PM
11/10/13 05:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 82
S
Schroeder II Offline
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Can someone explain to a newbie why wooden keys are such a big deal?
I can understand back in the day when ivory was actually available and plastic did not exist

But i cannot figure out why the industry cannot come up with a high end plastic key that emulates the weight and feel of wood/ivory keys.

Maybe they have-then what is the point of wood?


Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: lilydell] #2180226
11/10/13 06:04 PM
11/10/13 06:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,747
Portugal
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toddy Offline
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Portugal
Sentiment, perhaps. And the marketing departments make them sound great.

A better possible reason is that they are more durable than plastic and will not shear due to fatigue.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: Schroeder II] #2180249
11/10/13 06:34 PM
11/10/13 06:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,696
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted by Schroeder II
Can someone explain to a newbie why wooden keys are such a big deal?


This topic is discussed in the current CA95/CA65 brochure:

Quote
The Significance of real wooden keys

Wood has been the preferred material for acoustic piano keys for centuries, and was first introduced in Kawai digital pianos over 25 years ago. Yet despite the countless improvements to acoustic and digital piano action technologies in recent years, engineers still recognise that wood remains the best material for the keyboard.

Unlike plastics and most other man-made substances, wood possesses unique characteristics that allow it to absorb a degree of movement energy and flex slightly when compressed. This means that when a pressing a wooden key it reaches the cushioned felt keybed with a natural, reassuring stop, rather than a jarring, noisy halt.

Wood’s outstanding resonance properties are widely accepted, making it an ideal choice for string instruments such as guitars, violins, and of course pianos. Wooden piano keys are also known to vibrate, subtly channelling the sound energy of the instrument back through the fingertips, and enhancing the musician’s playing experience.

Finally, wooden keys are inherently special. The look, feel, and even the smell of wooden keys furnish the Concert Artist with an organic quality that helps the player to feel a closer connection with their piano. And it is this important personal connection that ultimately allows pianists to relax, and lose themselves in the joy of making music.


Another benefit of wooden keys - explained to me by a colleague when confirming the laminated key query discussed a few weeks ago - is that the weight of the key is distributed along the whole length of the keystick. This ensures a correct weight balance at any position of the key. By contrast, hollow plastic keys (even those with wooden side covers) will have a lighter/heavier distribution depending on the position of the weight inside the key.

I hope the above explanation answers your question. However, may I encourage you to play-test a Kawai instrument with real wooden keys in order to truly understand the difference for yourself.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: toddy] #2180756
11/11/13 08:32 PM
11/11/13 08:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 82
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Schroeder II Offline
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Schroeder II  Offline
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Posts: 82
Originally Posted by toddy
Sentiment, perhaps. And the marketing departments make them sound great.

A better possible reason is that they are more durable than plastic and will not shear due to fatigue.


Is that an issue? Im being serious. Do plastic piano keys break often enough to cause concern?
Reason I ask is I am planning on upgrading from a P95 to a MOX 8 very shortly.
Not sure if I want to invest $1500 if the build is not going to stand up to frequent use.

Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: Schroeder II] #2180859
11/12/13 03:53 AM
11/12/13 03:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Canada Alberta
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Michael_99 Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Canada Alberta
Schroeder II, I have read a post, here:

Subject: Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing?

Originally Posted By: toddy
Sentiment, perhaps. And the marketing departments make them sound great.

A better possible reason is that they are more durable than plastic and will not shear due to fatigue.


Is that an issue? Im being serious. Do plastic piano keys break often enough to cause concern?
Reason I ask is I am planning on upgrading from a P95 to a MOX 8 very shortly.
Not sure if I want to invest $1500 if the build is not going to stand up to frequent use.

_____

To be or not to be plastic is not the issue to me. About 25 years ago I bought a digital piano called a Yamaha CLP-50 for $3,000 - a beautiful beast both in sound and touch - weighs a ton - 18" speakers - awesome - is my word - and it still works like the day I bought it.

Now I know that not everybody on the planet owns a digital piano, but how many centuries will it take before digital pianos will cost the same price as laptop computers around - $400 dollars - with or without speakers.

cheers,

3N12CD

Last edited by Michael_99; 11/12/13 03:55 AM.
Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: Enthusiast] #2181550
11/13/13 11:19 AM
11/13/13 11:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
NYC
L
lilydell Offline OP
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lilydell  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2013
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NYC
Quote
You mentioned wooden keys were essential but interestingly I don't think any of the Rolands have wooden keys


Hi, I wrote "wood/ivory keys" were essential. I guess I wasn't clear enough because I meant that I was considering the "ivory touch" keys as well. There's too much terminology to keep straight!

Honestly, I really just went with what felt the best under my fingers.

Re: Ready to Upgrade - what am I missing? [Re: IsaacH] #2181561
11/13/13 11:38 AM
11/13/13 11:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
NYC
L
lilydell Offline OP
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lilydell  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
NYC
Hi sassy, thanks so much for weighing in.

A stage piano just isn't what I'm looking for right now and I really don't want to have to use additional software or a computer or have to attach pedals, etc.

Appearance is somewhat important because of where it will be placed in my apartment. I have a small "conservatory" and the polished ebony Roland HP-507 is going to look pretty dang good in there.

Your tip about headphones is especially helpful - I thought the ones I use for listening to music on the subway would be ideal because they are fantastic and were really pricey, but what you wrote about a flat response makes a lot of sense. I think I will get a dedicated pair just for playing.

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