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#2179395 - 11/09/13 12:20 AM Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Beethoven747-400 Offline
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Beethoven747-400  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
Feedback appreciated.







- Brandon

#2179502 - 11/09/13 09:12 AM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
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Tim Adrianson Offline
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Tim Adrianson  Offline
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Hi, B747 -- Overall, it's effectively presented, but for my taste you approach the etude too pianistically. I need to hear more sense of the passionate patetico aria, right out of the starting gate. As the piece progresses, I think you DO capture more of that element, and gauge the climax quite nicely, but I'd like to hear the songful arioso element throughout, giving the "singer" time to breathe and better establish the dramatic highpoints in the "aria".

Thanks for sharing this!

#2179592 - 11/09/13 12:51 PM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
Joined: May 2001
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BruceD Offline
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Victoria, BC
Brandon :

I agree largely with what TA has posted; rather than say that you approach the Etude "too pianistically," I would say that you make it sound too much like an Etude; some of the musical character of the piece is lost in what I feel is a relentless drive from beginning to end.

The first instance of this comes at measure 8, where, in the score, Chopin has marked a ritard. which you have not observed. Similarly at measure 36, there is a poco rall. which I don't hear.

Whether this is the result produced by the camera and not entirely by your playing - I find that there is a lack of attention to the dynamics indicated in the score. At measure 17, the score is marked p with a cresc. indicated at measure 18 through to measure 20. Again, at measure 21, the score is marked p. but I don't hear that dynamic in your playing. Where is the pp. at measure 30, 32, 34, and 36 for example, and the ppp leggierissimo and smorz. measures 65 and 66?

My scores have mordents (a sign Chopin often used interchangeably with the tr. sign) in measures 38 and 39; does your score not have them?

Overall - and it may be the placement of the camera - I find the performance bass-heavy and lacking in the legatissimo that Chopin indicates at the very outset.

It is evident that you have enough of the technique required to bring off this Etude with ease and aplomb. From this listener's point of view, and even though the Etude is marked Allegro molto agitato I believe you can still have both the allegro and the agitato with a little more relief at the end of phrases and a little more expressiveness in the overall mood.

If I come across as being overly critical, I apologize. I do feel, however, that you have all the technique required to make this an outstanding musical performance, not just a technical one. However, this is just one person's opinion which you need not heed.

Thank you for sharing.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
#2179609 - 11/09/13 01:09 PM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: BruceD]  
Joined: Mar 2013
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Polyphonist Offline
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Polyphonist  Offline
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Originally Posted by BruceD
However, this is just one person's opinion which you need not heed.

Make that two. And hardly unqualified people at that.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2180423 - 11/10/13 11:26 PM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
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Beethoven747-400 Offline
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Beethoven747-400  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
Hi Guys -

Thank you for taking your time to listen and provide feedback - I really appreciate it smile

I certainly will work on those things BruceD, it's silly of me to ignore Chopin's markings! (yes, the dynamics and trills are on my score!). I definitely agree, it does sound too "pianistic", especially for an étude of this nature... Would you know how I would go about fixing these things? Slow practice? Practicing RH alone?

PS: Don't worry about sounding harsh Bruce, this is piano world :-)

Happy practicing,

Brandon

:-)

#2181079 - 11/12/13 01:21 PM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
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Pathbreaker Offline
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Pathbreaker  Offline
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Massachusetts
You play quite well and I would echo Bruce's statement that your technique is great and will allow you to pull off the musical requirements of this piece. How can you fix the pianistic nature of your performance? I would first try to incorporate all the musical directions in the score as was already mentioned. If you even just did that very carefully it would make for a measurable improvement in the quality of the performance. It is only a first step but it's a place to start.

After doing this you really just need to be a great listener and think of how to improve your storytelling. This will help you understand how to shape the story through your phrasing and articulation. In some ways, practice the concept of the 'story' away from the piano. Think of the music in your head and think of what kind of message you are communicating to the audience.

You can understand this message before you are capable of producing the sounds on the piano. Some things you'll want to consider are the dynamics in your left hand playing. Serious consideration of pedal markings, ritards and accelerandos. These can all be exaggerated to great effect when necessary. But even more obviously, you need to recognize the points in the story when something new is happening. A change of mood, often accompanied by a change in dynamics, should not be wasted.

For example, measures 17-28 provide a significant portion of developmental content leading to the FF. Think of how you can build tension and suspense in this section. Measures 17-19 crescendo from p to f and then back to p in measure 20. The following crescendo includes an accel. which I think is almost violently taking you to the FF. It's really a lot of drama there and you should try and get that to come out. Even more striking is what immediately follows: A riten. and then a tempo. The echo effect between the f and p is really quite dramatic from bars 29-36. I would try to exaggerate these effects to some degree. Same with the following stretto and appassionato markings.

It's kind of amazing how many interpretive markings are in this score (I don't know how much mine differs from yours) for an etude. I would also agree that your tempo is faster than it needs to be. It's not a problem by itself, but if you wanted to make more contrast out of the tempo variations mentioned earlier, it would be much easier if your regular tempo takes these turns into account.

Don't put too much stock into what I've said since I can't actually play this piece. By the way I noticed quite a large stretch between your 4-5 fingers right at the outset of the piece. I've been practicing this piece actually and my hand doesn't come close to that! I still use 5-4 for the F-C but I can't keep the 4 finger on the C like you do. I tried it with 5-3 but for some reason there is more tension when I play it that way.

Anyways, nice playing and good luck with the rest.

#2182067 - 11/14/13 01:34 AM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Beethoven747-400 Offline
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Beethoven747-400  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
I've taken in and practiced what you guys told me to - hopefully it's sounding better now smile



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faWdPRFgzss




#2182071 - 11/14/13 01:44 AM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Beethoven747-400 Offline
Full Member
Beethoven747-400  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
I've taken in and practiced what you guys told me to - hopefully it's sounding better now smile



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faWdPRFgzss




#2182205 - 11/14/13 09:44 AM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
Joined: Aug 2010
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Tim Adrianson Offline
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Tim Adrianson  Offline
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Hi, B747 -- It's sounding a LOT better! Particularly nice shaping of the melodic line and control of the dynamic range -- very important elements to a satisfying presentation of this piece. And - it didn't sound like an etude -- which IMO is the important aspect that differentiates Chopin's Etudes from virtually all others. They are fully realized poetic compositions, which quite clearly forecast his mature style far more than his early virtuoso vehicles for piano and orchestra. The sound was unpleasant, but I thought the musical argument was totally convincing. Thanks for sharing this!


#2184080 - 11/17/13 06:03 PM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
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Piano*Dad Offline
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Ah, pleasant memories. My son's little encore piece after his senior recital.


#2184392 - 11/18/13 09:04 AM Re: Chopin - Étude Op. 10, No 9 [Re: Beethoven747-400]  
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Pathbreaker Offline
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Pathbreaker  Offline
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Massachusetts
Originally Posted by Beethoven747-400
I've taken in and practiced what you guys told me to - hopefully it's sounding better now smile



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faWdPRFgzss





That's wonderful, really great progress!


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