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#2178893 - 11/08/13 08:29 AM Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys  
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Winter Wind Offline
Junior Member
Winter Wind  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12

Hello everyone,

I've just made an account here because I wanted to get some help from experienced people who can give helpful advice.

I've played my piano (Casio CDP-100)(yes bad piano) for two months and I've never felt any pain during or afterwards playing the piano.

As a huge Chopin fan I wanted to make exercises for Watefall Etude to be able to play it later on ( like much later ), since I already learned Raindrop prelude and learning his Funeral March. After I exercised the Waterfall Etude, I felt pain in my right wrist so I knew I had to relax my wrist and have a proper posture. Even though now I have relaxed my arms and a good posture and I play the first scales fast I still feel pain. I stopped training the song.

After I've been relaxing my wrists, shoulders, body and having a proper posture I've started to feel pain in my right wrist ever since afterwards playing the piano, not during playing the piano.

Could the pain come because my keys are really heavy? 120g Downweight, Upweight is 46g.

I've never had a problem with pain before, I could play piano for hours and hours and stretch my fingers as much as I want, having a bad posture and stiff wrists but nothing bad happened.

Is it just me or is it just the piano? Do I need a new one?

Thanks for everyone who read this!

Last edited by Squáll; 11/08/13 08:31 AM.
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#2178898 - 11/08/13 08:38 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Winter Wind]  
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peterws Offline
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Posts: 6,271
Northern England.
I would blame Chopin. The same thing happened to me after playing Grieg . . . Age may have a slight bearing here. How old are ya?


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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#2178903 - 11/08/13 08:48 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: peterws]  
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Winter Wind Offline
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Winter Wind  Offline
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So I'm not alone, let us feel the pain togeher.
I'm 17, and addicted to playing piano.

#2178907 - 11/08/13 09:18 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Winter Wind]  
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dewster Offline
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Northern NJ
Anecdotally, some DP actions seem to promote injury more than others. My feeling is the ones that "thump back" at your fingers when playing are likely the worst. Other than Yamaha AGs, DPs don't have escapement, back check, etc. so any hammer energy left over after the hammer rebounds off the padding will be transmitted back to your fingers, to possibly wreak havoc with joints and tendons.

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#2178912 - 11/08/13 09:22 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Winter Wind]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
evamar Offline
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evamar  Offline
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Spanish living in UK
Too young for real hand problems, I think. Is this the first time you tried Chopin? What pieces did you play before these ones? Maybe it's only getting used to the more complexed pieces.

I do notice some strain when I try more difficult pieces. I tend to play these for less time and always end with easier pieces. Not sure this is the right thing to do, though... so if anybody here has medical experience and can offer advise I would also be very interested in this one.

I remember that my hands were in actual pain for the first 2 weeks I played a weighted dp, even though I played it for short times. But if you have been playing yours for 2 months before this happens I also think that the culprit is the actual piece... Shame on you, Chopin! (and Listz... and Grieg... and so so many others! grin


Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted

[Linked Image]
#2178919 - 11/08/13 09:31 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: evamar]  
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Winter Wind Offline
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Winter Wind  Offline
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Well every song I want to learn is usually too hard for me. My first song that I learned on piano was Chopin's Raindrop, learning his Funeral March, Can play FFVI Terra's theme, still learning Those Who Fight (FFVII Piano Collections), learning Aerith's Theme, can play To Zanarkand (FFX) etc etc. but Those Who Fight takes all my time since it's really challenging.

Thank you for sharing your experience and answering here evamar! what difficult pieces have you tried?

Last edited by Squáll; 11/08/13 09:34 AM.
#2178922 - 11/08/13 09:33 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: dewster]  
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Winter Wind Offline
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Winter Wind  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2013
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I didn't know this, thank you for enlightening me!
I really appreciate everones answers!

Last edited by Squáll; 11/08/13 09:33 AM.
#2178985 - 11/08/13 11:47 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Winter Wind]  
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spanishbuddha Offline
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spanishbuddha  Offline
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UK
120g downweight! Are you sure? That sounds weigh (sic) too high. I have not played the CDP series, and downweight is not everything when it comes to possible injury, but most DP's I've had have a downweight in the range of 55-65g. Heavy bottoming and pushback also cause injury (assuming good tension free technique).

I would rest the Chopin for a bit. Then try again on another piano or DP just to see if the injury or problem is either still there or recurs.

#2179037 - 11/08/13 01:17 PM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: spanishbuddha]  
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Winter Wind Offline
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Winter Wind  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
120g downweight! Are you sure? That sounds weigh (sic) too high. I have not played the CDP series, and downweight is not everything when it comes to possible injury, but most DP's I've had have a downweight in the range of 55-65g. Heavy bottoming and pushback also cause injury (assuming good tension free technique).

I would rest the Chopin for a bit. Then try again on another piano or DP just to see if the injury or problem is either still there or recurs.


I've measured it a few times with 20 cent coins. Upweight = 8x 20 cent = 45,92g, Downweight = 21x 20 cent = 120,4 g. 1x 20 cent coin weighs 5,74 g.

Yeah not practicing Chopin anymore. The bad thing is that I just started to feel pain in my left wrist too. FML.

Thanks for your comment, I learned something new again!

Last edited by Squáll; 11/08/13 01:18 PM.
#2179050 - 11/08/13 01:40 PM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Winter Wind]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member
evamar  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
Spanish living in UK
Raindrop is a difficult piece to start from scratch, especially with the right expression! And some of the Final Fantasy's collections are definitely on the very difficult side, particularly Those Who Fight. I'm really impressed, how long have you actually been playing piano? wow

Really most pieces are far too difficult for me!

I'm currently learning (or trying to, more like it) Granado's Danzas Españolas No 2, Oriental and Albeniz's España Prelude... if I ever manage to play his Asturias Leyenda from Suite Española I'll die happy because it was my grandmum's favourite and I remember my uncle learning it when I was a kid. I know that most of you know this piece as for guitar, but actually it was originally composed for piano. I want to play some Spanish music this Christmas when I meet my family. Also "As Time Goes By" and Cindi Lauper's "True Colours"... yes, Cindi Lauper's "True Colours", I repeat, no shame here.. I just alternate them. Should add some Christmas carol, not that I'm still on time.

I always end with 2 or 3 easy pieces that I can play almost without thinking. I try to play for at least a couple hours per day, but with at least a couple breaks.

As spanishbudda says, best thing is to give your hands a break and play pieces that are easier on your fingers for a while. Not only Chopin, I'm still impressed about your FF's pieces!
Then try with another dp and check how your hands feel, that's a great advise.


Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted

[Linked Image]
#2179058 - 11/08/13 02:01 PM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: evamar]  
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Winter Wind Offline
Junior Member
Winter Wind  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by evamar
Raindrop is a difficult piece to start from scratch, especially with the right expression! And some of the Final Fantasy's collections are definitely on the very difficult side, particularly Those Who Fight. I'm really impressed, how long have you actually been playing piano? wow

Really most pieces are far too difficult for me!

I'm currently learning (or trying to, more like it) Granado's Danzas Españolas No 2, Oriental and Albeniz's España Prelude... if I ever manage to play his Asturias Leyenda from Suite Española I'll die happy because it was my grandmum's favourite and I remember my uncle learning it when I was a kid. I know that most of you know this piece as for guitar, but actually it was originally composed for piano. I want to play some Spanish music this Christmas when I meet my family. Also "As Time Goes By" and Cindi Lauper's "True Colours"... yes, Cindi Lauper's "True Colours", I repeat, no shame here.. I just alternate them. Should add some Christmas carol, not that I'm still on time.

I always end with 2 or 3 easy pieces that I can play almost without thinking. I try to play for at least a couple hours per day, but with at least a couple breaks.

As spanishbudda says, best thing is to give your hands a break and play pieces that are easier on your fingers for a while. Not only Chopin, I'm still impressed about your FF's pieces!
Then try with another dp and check how your hands feel, that's a great advise.


I never thought that I could play Raindrop for my first song either, but there wasn't any songs that I was interested in at that time and I was highly influenced by it and sometimes could play 10 hours a day.

It took 2 weeks to learn fully, even though the little fast parts are hard with this piano. Those Who Fight, I'm only on 45% on that song and can not play it full speed and need a break to change parts, it's the most challenging song I've tried to learn so far.

Asturias Leyenda from Suite Española looks really hard but you will be able to play it if you are highly influenced by it! I like your choice of music, you seem to be pretty good piano player! Nothing to be a shamed of on wanting to play True Colours, are you self taught or dou you have a teacher?

By the way can you recommend a good DP? (price range 400-700e)

I enjoyed reading your story!


Last edited by Squáll; 11/08/13 04:06 PM.
#2179432 - 11/09/13 05:14 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Winter Wind]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member
evamar  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
Spanish living in UK

Nah, I'm just a beginner, I don't want to give you other impression. I've been playing for a while, but because I'm dyslexic I cannot follow "traditional" systems and still consider myself a beginner as my progress in theory is quite slow. I had some lessons in order to know how to approach the piano and getting the basics, but as I cannot read music sheets it came to a point where the teacher could not help me... no point in spending all the paid time trying to read something I can't. Since then I'm self taught with Synthesia and Piano4All.

I recently bought a new dp and went over my budget, so I need to recover a bit, but I'm planning on getting more lessons to get feedback and corrections in the pieces I learnt by myself, so that the lessons would be more practical to my actual needs.

It seems to me that you might be spending too much time learning very difficult pieces and that might be the reason of your aching hands. Specially Those Who Fight, it sounds like perfectly able to hurt your joints if practised for hours non-stop.

I'm not saying that you should stop learning those pieces, but maybe you should limit the time you learn those ones and mix them with easier ones to give your hands a rest. Leaving them apart for a while until your hands stop aching is a good idea, and then taking it easier on them from there.

Asturias is one that I definitely want to learn, as it's very connected to my family and I have great memories of that piece. As you said it is much easier to pass the challenge when one has a personal interest.

As per recommending a new dp, I would create a new thread for that, so you'll get all comments together. Definitely 88 weighted and with a good action. I have had a look at the Casio CDP-100 and actually it looks like a quite good entry level digital piano. In any case, do not buy anything without trying it first, especially if you want to get one with good touch and action.



Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted

[Linked Image]
#2179442 - 11/09/13 05:45 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Winter Wind]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Michael_99  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Canada Alberta
Squall, I have read your post, here:

Hello everyone,

I've just made an account here because I wanted to get some help from experienced people who can give helpful advice.

I've played my piano (Casio CDP-100)(yes bad piano) for two months and I've never felt any pain during or afterwards playing the piano.

As a huge Chopin fan I wanted to make exercises for Watefall Etude to be able to play it later on ( like much later ), since I already learned Raindrop prelude and learning his Funeral March. After I exercised the Waterfall Etude, I felt pain in my right wrist so I knew I had to relax my wrist and have a proper posture. Even though now I have relaxed my arms and a good posture and I play the first scales fast I still feel pain. I stopped training the song.

After I've been relaxing my wrists, shoulders, body and having a proper posture I've started to feel pain in my right wrist ever since afterwards playing the piano, not during playing the piano.

Could the pain come because my keys are really heavy? 120g Downweight, Upweight is 46g.

I've never had a problem with pain before, I could play piano for hours and hours and stretch my fingers as much as I want, having a bad posture and stiff wrists but nothing bad happened.

Is it just me or is it just the piano? Do I need a new one?

Thanks for everyone who read this!

__________

In a word of two, you are an athlete of the piano.

If you don't eat properly, you don't sleep properly, you don't practice properly and you don't rest your body properly, you won't win the gold medal.

As a piano player, if play too long, if you play very difficult pieces way beyond your ability and play for long hours day after day and never take a rest but you push yourself until you feel pain anywhere and everywhere in your body, you could have a problem that others who are more knowledgeable can explain to you here. I am just an old beginner and so I don't know very much.

cheers, for your post,

3N09OV

#2179457 - 11/09/13 07:08 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: evamar]  
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Winter Wind Offline
Junior Member
Winter Wind  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by evamar

Nah, I'm just a beginner, I don't want to give you other impression. I've been playing for a while, but because I'm dyslexic I cannot follow "traditional" systems and still consider myself a beginner as my progress in theory is quite slow. I had some lessons in order to know how to approach the piano and getting the basics, but as I cannot read music sheets it came to a point where the teacher could not help me... no point in spending all the paid time trying to read something I can't. Since then I'm self taught with Synthesia and Piano4All.

I recently bought a new dp and went over my budget, so I need to recover a bit, but I'm planning on getting more lessons to get feedback and corrections in the pieces I learnt by myself, so that the lessons would be more practical to my actual needs.

It seems to me that you might be spending too much time learning very difficult pieces and that might be the reason of your aching hands. Specially Those Who Fight, it sounds like perfectly able to hurt your joints if practised for hours non-stop.

I'm not saying that you should stop learning those pieces, but maybe you should limit the time you learn those ones and mix them with easier ones to give your hands a rest. Leaving them apart for a while until your hands stop aching is a good idea, and then taking it easier on them from there.

Asturias is one that I definitely want to learn, as it's very connected to my family and I have great memories of that piece. As you said it is much easier to pass the challenge when one has a personal interest.

As per recommending a new dp, I would create a new thread for that, so you'll get all comments together. Definitely 88 weighted and with a good action. I have had a look at the Casio CDP-100 and actually it looks like a quite good entry level digital piano. In any case, do not buy anything without trying it first, especially if you want to get one with good touch and action.



Thank you for your help, you are right about what you said of Those Who Fight. Synthesia is a great program indeed, what could we do without it?

#2179458 - 11/09/13 07:10 AM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Michael_99]  
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Winter Wind Offline
Junior Member
Winter Wind  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by Michael_99
Squall, I have read your post, here:

Hello everyone,

I've just made an account here because I wanted to get some help from experienced people who can give helpful advice.

I've played my piano (Casio CDP-100)(yes bad piano) for two months and I've never felt any pain during or afterwards playing the piano.

As a huge Chopin fan I wanted to make exercises for Watefall Etude to be able to play it later on ( like much later ), since I already learned Raindrop prelude and learning his Funeral March. After I exercised the Waterfall Etude, I felt pain in my right wrist so I knew I had to relax my wrist and have a proper posture. Even though now I have relaxed my arms and a good posture and I play the first scales fast I still feel pain. I stopped training the song.

After I've been relaxing my wrists, shoulders, body and having a proper posture I've started to feel pain in my right wrist ever since afterwards playing the piano, not during playing the piano.

Could the pain come because my keys are really heavy? 120g Downweight, Upweight is 46g.

I've never had a problem with pain before, I could play piano for hours and hours and stretch my fingers as much as I want, having a bad posture and stiff wrists but nothing bad happened.

Is it just me or is it just the piano? Do I need a new one?

Thanks for everyone who read this!

__________

In a word of two, you are an athlete of the piano.

If you don't eat properly, you don't sleep properly, you don't practice properly and you don't rest your body properly, you won't win the gold medal.

As a piano player, if play too long, if you play very difficult pieces way beyond your ability and play for long hours day after day and never take a rest but you push yourself until you feel pain anywhere and everywhere in your body, you could have a problem that others who are more knowledgeable can explain to you here. I am just an old beginner and so I don't know very much.

cheers, for your post,

3N09OV


You are absolutely right, thanks for your knowledge! It will not go for waste.

#2179781 - 11/09/13 09:53 PM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: Winter Wind]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,199
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014
rnaple  Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,199
Rocky Mountains
Your wrist. Is it becoming tighter. To the point of pain.???
If so, it's a warning.

I know I was reaching too far. Resulting in turning the wrist to one side. That was a cause of tightness of the ligaments. My first few months. I ran into different pains. Oddest one was when I went running. Doing sprints then rest, then sprint. Got running good. Got pain in my left forearm. Lots of blood flow there. I understood it as the muscles developing sophistication. Growing. I simply understood it. No big deal.

I have a CDP-100. It just doesn't feel as ergonomic as an old high end keyboard I have. It really isn't bad though.


Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2180735 - 11/11/13 07:43 PM Re: Casio CDP-100 - Heavy Keys [Re: rnaple]  
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Winter Wind Offline
Junior Member
Winter Wind  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by rnaple
Your wrist. Is it becoming tighter. To the point of pain.???
If so, it's a warning.

I know I was reaching too far. Resulting in turning the wrist to one side. That was a cause of tightness of the ligaments. My first few months. I ran into different pains. Oddest one was when I went running. Doing sprints then rest, then sprint. Got running good. Got pain in my left forearm. Lots of blood flow there. I understood it as the muscles developing sophistication. Growing. I simply understood it. No big deal.

I have a CDP-100. It just doesn't feel as ergonomic as an old high end keyboard I have. It really isn't bad though.


Well no more pain on playing piano because of the comments that helped me here, my hands get exhausted though. Thanks for sharing you experience, I never realized that playing piano can lead to bad problems like this.

Well to be honest I said it's a bad piano because I didn't know what kind of community was here, in some places I can imagine to hear really bad things about it I.e "your poor to have piano like that" etc. It is a good piano for it's price, strengthens the fingers and the sound quality is good with headphones, the decaying of the sound is pretty fast without pedal though.


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