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Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment #2177048
11/04/13 05:39 PM
11/04/13 05:39 PM
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Florentin Offline OP
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I just realized why I tend to focus on note-names and position playing for a bit longer than other piano teachers do (in teaching children to play and also in my own approach to the keyboard).

In a few discussions with other piano teachers, online and in person, I realized that many of them do not focus on position playing so much, and that some of them do not give too much importance to naming the notes as much as they do to simply playing the right notes.

I would like to share my Aha moment, for anybody that cares... smile

I play multiple instruments, and my main instrument is the Classical Guitar. On the guitar, one can play the same note in multiple places. That is, one can play the E on the fourth space on the staff, in at least six different places. The same is true about other notes.

This creates a set of issues in reading scores and in writing for the instrument. Sometimes, the composer/editor would keep all the notes of a melody on the same string, to give it the same color. Say, b - c - d - g', played on the third string, beginning with the fourth fret, first finger, would be fingered this way: 1 - 2 - 4 - 4 (with the fourth finger sliding to the 12th fret, still on the third string).

A beginner's book would present this in totally different string combination: b - c - d - g' would be fingered on the second string and the first like this (0 - 1 - 3 - 3first)

Make sense?

For most guitarists who know the fingerboard well, this is a gift!, because one can play the same melody with different colors, depending on the string combination that is being used. The more open strings, the more open (bright) the sound. The more stopped strings, and the farther away from the first fret, the sweeter and fuller the sound.

This is just an example.

This feature of the instrument actually creates some chord voicings that are IMPOSSIBLE to achieve on the piano smile

And there's one more thing. Most guitar methods will introduce the notes on the fretboard in positions, and indicate where on the fretboard the left hand is playing by the use or Roman Numerals. This tells the guitarist which position they are to be playing in. Not necessarily to help them know which notes to play, but to indicate the type of color and/or fingering that is suggested. Most string instruments follow a similar model. Not the harp, of course smile

I had sort of an "Aha!" moment when I realized that I look at the notes on the piano sort of the same way, as far as the position is concerned.

On the piano, the difference is that the D above middle C will always be in between the two black keys in the middle of the keyboard. And all D's, no matter what octave, are always going to be between two of the black notes.

On the guitar, that D can be played in multiple places on the fingerboard, and so can most of the other notes. On the violin, that same D can be played in two different places.

Now the question is:

Is being aware of all these different sounds and places for the same staff note, on other instruments, of any benefit when I sit at the piano, or is it a hinderance? More importantly for my students than for myself, I guess.


Because when I play a middle C on the piano, I am already thinking Bb on the Clarinet, fifth string/third fret on the guitar, all fingers on the recorder, open valves on the trumpet (Bb) and so on.

Does this even make any sense?

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Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177075
11/04/13 06:24 PM
11/04/13 06:24 PM
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Among the instruments I play, the violin (still a learner) relates. (I also play descant, alto, and tenor recorder - the alto is an F instrument but not officially a transposing instrument - it's sort of fallen between the cracks in written music.)

Exploring:
The piano has black keys grouped in 2's and 3's, and this is a first orientation many students learn first. All D's are between the 2 blacks. One teacher has written about "the Dog in the Dog house" (imagery of the 2 blacks being the house. Many teachers have their beginners find all the D's on the piano as the very first thing, followed by a two-finger GA in the big house (3 black keys).

The note has its own location, like a house where it lives. D4 (D above middle C) lives in one single place. You can play that D with any finger. The danger of prolonged "C position", and especially pervasive finger numbers (John Thomson is infamous for that), is that the student associates the finger with the notes. D "is" finger 2. Then as music gets fancier, where the hand is in a different position or D has to be played with 4, there is disorientation. The fingers should not become the reference point for notes. The notes live where they live.
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Violins have a similar scenario as guitar. Strings are tuned to G,D,A,E in fifths. In addition, there are no frets - there is one endless length of taut string. We also have positions, and when positions are marked into the music, they are also marked as III, IV etc.

Students start off learning "first position" which is where the hand is down near the scroll, and their first scales are D and G major. Apparently SUZUKI students are often taught via finger. 3 tapes are placed on the fingerboard like frets, and they are told to play "high 1, high 2, high 3" (index, middle, pinky). The students associate "high 3" with C3, G4, D3 etc. The finger is the note for them. Then when they finally learn "3rd position", those same notes are played with the index finger. In the violin discussion forum, these Suzuki students are often lost and bewildered at that point.

When I learned, there was the location of the note, but finger was never mentioned. Of course you still played G on the D string with 3. I was directed to listen to the sympathetic resonance of the G string below it when I was in tune. So later on when we had 3rd position, we simply slid up to the location of that note, finger 1 nailed it instead of finger 3, and it was no huge transition.
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When you play recorder, a particular finger goes over a particular hole. Here you are learning fingering groupings. D on the descant and tenor = "all fingers down except the pinky". So people playing these kinds of instruments have a greater relationship of finger toward note.
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And then there are transposing instruments. laugh






Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177082
11/04/13 06:35 PM
11/04/13 06:35 PM
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on the guitar... finger, string, and fret... means a lot!
it changes a piece altogether, and how one goes about reading/learning it


Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177087
11/04/13 06:42 PM
11/04/13 06:42 PM
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I avoid teaching "positions" like the plague.

I'm now a big fan of the "guidepost notes + intervallic reading" method. And then I let the method books take the kids from one set of letter name to the next set of letter names in a logical fashion.

The idea is not to confuse or overwhelm the students.


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Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177097
11/04/13 07:03 PM
11/04/13 07:03 PM
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Today, I did this for the first time ever at the piano!

I am speechless.
It is like a different instrument.

I had been reading/playing (and teaching) this thing from a guitar perspective smile
Much easier NOT to.

I will need some time to adjust.
Unbelievable.


Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177130
11/04/13 08:38 PM
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You know Florentin, that works for all the string instruments e.g. violin, cello, et cet. But wind instruments or the voice, or the piano, it doesn't.

As far as colors go, you can get different colors out of the same note on a piano. You attack the key differently, and change the timing of the keystroke.


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Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177142
11/04/13 09:16 PM
11/04/13 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Florentin
Today, I did this for the first time ever at the piano!

I am speechless.
It is like a different instrument.

I had been reading/playing (and teaching) this thing from a guitar perspective smile
Much easier NOT to.

I will need some time to adjust.
Unbelievable.

Fantastic news. thumb

Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: laguna_greg] #2177258
11/05/13 12:07 AM
11/05/13 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by laguna_greg
You know Florentin, that works for all the string instruments e.g. violin, cello, et cet. But wind instruments or the voice, or the piano, it doesn't.

As far as colors go, you can get different colors out of the same note on a piano. You attack the key differently, and change the timing of the keystroke.


Right. I remember talking to a college piano professor about this during lessons, many years ago. I was complaining about this "dry instrument", the piano. I was sort of bragging about the difference on the classical guitar where one can change the color so easily.

She smiled, sat at the piano, and showed me. That was a wonderful lesson!

Still, even though you could change the color of the sound on the piano... you still play each note in the same place on the instrument, no matter what... ALWAYS.

For a guitarist, that is never the case.
For the guitarist, the question "where do I play this" is a constant one.

I am referring to classical guitar repertoire here, not to mere chord strumming smile , even though chords sort of work the same way on the guitar. One could play the same chord voicing of a chord in different places on the guitar.

Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177338
11/05/13 06:02 AM
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Maybe out of topic, but maybe not: In a couple of years it might be a common thing that keyboard players gain much better tone control throughout their playing, than any other instrumentalist could ever obtain it on any classical instrument, and good fingering will have to be redefined:

Watch the future of keyboard instruments!


Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177339
11/05/13 06:05 AM
11/05/13 06:05 AM
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Hi Florentin,
I grew up playing piano and cornet (I mention this because I remember you talking about brass in another thread). In the last few years I took up guitar (steel string), which started as mere strumming, then I learned to play with a pick from what guitarists call 'standard notation' (=music). I know the neck up to fret 12 and I can read fairly happily in open, 2nd, 5th, 7th positions, just don't ask me to play in Eb. Then in the last few weeks I took up classical guitar also, just to round off the edges. Despite knowing the neck I am a total beginner at classical guitar, and I know nothing of 'colour'.

Here's what I've noticed. Every instrument forces you to think of the notes and the relationships between the notes in a different way. Every instrument has things it makes easy and things it makes difficult. On a cornet, once you know that a G is a perfect 5th up from a C, then there is nothing more natural than to learn that a perfect 5th up from a B is an F#. But a pianist needs to learn an B maj scale before knowing that.

On a piano, everything is laid out for you to play in 12 keys as easily as possible. It's easy to play a C maj scale with 1 finger. But so many beginners then struggle with tones and semitones. Why is it a tone from C to D but a semitone from E to F? This comes up regularly on the ABF. A guitarist will never ask such a question, but then they worked harder to be able to play a C scale in the first place.

On a piano you need to learn the sharps and flats that go with each key. On a guitar, you can ignore key signatures to a point and play by shape, once you know the scale shapes. It drives me nuts, but one of my books actually doesn't repeat key signatures on subsequent lines (Modern Method by Leavitt).

Guitarists think very much by position. The book I mentioned (also the Mel Bay books) above commit crimes against legato because they just can't get away from position. "I'm in 5th position and my hand is glued to the neck. Therefore to heck to ergonomics,to heck with musicality, I'm just going to stretch a finger out here, and oh boy, I managed to get back into position quick, didn't I?"

Having said all that, I've not managed to teach piano without having (and sticking to) a 5-finger position stage, and allowing the student to associate finger numbers with notes, for a time, till they get used to what they are doing. Yes, they get disoriented when they change position. But you have to start somewhere. If they can't hold down the resting fingers while pressing a key and maintain a 5-finger position, then they are not ready to start moving around in a meaningful way.

I love all the Piano Adventure pieces that do octave leap patterns. The same idea is in many beginners books.

I could talk endlessly about the piano-guitar crossover. My current thinking on both instruments is that 'position' is a necessary crutch designed to get you going. At a certain point you should be able to leave it behind and just play the notes, whatever position you are in. Guitarists hold onto position for a lot longer than pianists because the instrument is so much more complex/flexible in it's layout and offers so many more possibilities. This is confusing for a beginner, but wonderful for a master.

Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: ten left thumbs] #2177396
11/05/13 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
At a certain point you should be able to leave it behind and just play the notes, whatever position you are in. Guitarists hold onto position for a lot longer than pianists because the instrument is so much more complex/flexible in it's layout and offers so many more possibilities. This is confusing for a beginner, but wonderful for a master.


Interesting discussion.

What happens when you play by ear? It seems that would bring a new dimension to the problem.


gotta go practice
Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: ten left thumbs] #2177403
11/05/13 09:31 AM
11/05/13 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I could talk endlessly about the piano-guitar crossover. My current thinking on both instruments is that 'position' is a necessary crutch designed to get you going. At a certain point you should be able to leave it behind and just play the notes, whatever position you are in. Guitarists hold onto position for a lot longer than pianists because the instrument is so much more complex/flexible in it's layout and offers so many more possibilities. This is confusing for a beginner, but wonderful for a master.


You make some good points.

I disagree (respectfully) about guitarists holding on to position playing until they get going. On the guitar, it is not a crutch. It is simply the way the instrument works. The position in which you play a passage will affect the fingering you use (for both hands), the ease with which you can play, the color that you attain, and also the transitions between the different sections of the piece.

On the classical guitar, position playing is how you play. Of course, beginners will use it as an aid to find the right 'sounds' (not referring to you necessarily smile ). Experienced players will use it to attain the desired technique in both hands, the desired color, and effective transitions between the different sections.

Of course, that is not to say that guitarists only think fingers, instead of notes. I can name every single note I play, in the score and on the guitar, whether it is a single note or a multi-note chord. Every other guitarist can. I think smile

Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177470
11/05/13 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Florentin

Because when I play a middle C on the piano, I am already thinking Bb on the Clarinet, fifth string/third fret on the guitar, all fingers on the recorder, open valves on the trumpet (Bb) and so on.

Does this even make any sense?


Wouldn't middle C on piano be 2nd string, 1st fret, if we are talking pitch, here?


Rob
Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177482
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link - guitar notes diagram
It shows it as Florentin described it. Yours would be C5, Rob. smile

Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: keystring] #2177489
11/05/13 12:25 PM
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Your diagram is correct Keystring, but guitar music is notated an octave higher, than the actual pitch, so Middle C on a piano, is actually 2nd string, 1st fret on a guitar, pitch-wise.
I am sure that Florentin would agree smile


Rob
Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: R0B] #2177496
11/05/13 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by R0B
Your diagram is correct Keystring, but guitar music is notated an octave higher, than the actual pitch, so Middle C on a piano, is actually 2nd string, 1st fret on a guitar, pitch-wise.

That is very interesting - almost like a transposing instrument except only in terms of register.

When I learned classical guitar, it was during my self-taught teen years, and my perceptions seem to have been similar to what Florentin has related so far, though not the same. I "heard" music I saw on the page, but in relative pitch, and in the context of music that moves mostly along major or minor keys. I was not really reading note for note - I'd see a line of notes which were obviously a scale, and similar.

I haven't touched the guitar for decades. Back then I was not much aware of note names - just enough to "find Do" - I couldn't tell you the guitar strings without looking it up.

I've caught up to a lot of things in droves, but they're not there for the instruments I used to play. REGISTER is the last thing to be caught: just getting that in line now. I have an untuned guitar because the tuning system (gears) is broken so I could only get approximate sounds. The highest string which should be E sounds as middle C, so that told me enough about the register of guitar strings. The point being that hearing registers is one element of hearing. One can blissfully play from notation, and never hear that the C on the 5th fret, notated as middle C, is not actually middle C, though it is C.

Last edited by keystring; 11/05/13 01:02 PM.
Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: keystring] #2177542
11/05/13 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
One can blissfully play from notation, and never hear that the C on the 5th fret, notated as middle C, is not actually middle C, though it is C.


And as we've discussed before, timbre makes a difference. That same pitch played on clarinet or vuvuzela can be recognized but it seems to take some training to match pitches.


gotta go practice
Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: ten left thumbs] #2177604
11/05/13 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Hi Florentin,
Despite knowing the neck I am a total beginner at classical guitar, and I know nothing of 'colour'.



I guess you're going to learn then. It'll be lots of fun!

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs


Guitarists think very much by position. ... My current thinking on both instruments is that 'position' is a necessary crutch designed to get you going.


My first piano teachers was originally a very fine cellist. She made me take a few years of cello with her as a second instrument. And she never taught "positions". She just told you to shift up or down to that note. She insisted that anyone could just sit down, and without any referent, find a note anywhere on the fingerboard, just like at the keyboard. And she happened to be right, once you knew the instrument well enough.

I've come across several cello teachers in my later years who teach "positions", but none of their students can shift very easily or securely.


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Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177705
11/05/13 07:59 PM
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I thought the middle C hand position was stupid. In fact, I think named hand positions are stupid. Just put your hand in a position that allows you to hit the notes you have to hit in my opinion.


"Doesn't practicing on the piano suck?!?!"
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Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177782
11/06/13 12:25 AM
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laguna,

Violin/Viola/Cello music is mostly melodic.

Guitar music, as you probably know, is very much like piano music in that there is a lot of harmonic content. In fact, some guitar scores are written in two staves, just like the piano. Comparing guitar music to cello music is not very relevant when discussing this topic. They are just different.

That being said, you can still play a the same G in at least four different spots on the Cello. Whether you think 'position' or not, you have to find the same note in a different place, according to the context you are in, and the color you want to acquire: an open string, for example, will sound brighter than a stopped string.

Neither extreme is good, in my opinion. I mean, relying on positions to find your notes is not a very effective way. But at the same time, doing away with positions altogether on an instrument such as the guitar, is going to the other extreme.

I am starting to see for myself that playing piano WITHOUT thinking positions at all is the better way! On the guitar, however, things work differently. Positions are not used to "find the notes". They are used to attain different colors and different fingerings.

The bottom line so far, for me anyways:

One should not play the piano from a guitar perspective, nor play the guitar from a piano perspective

Trumpet players, to use a different instrument example, will choose to finger a low E with fingers 1-2 or 3, depending on the musical context: most of the time, they would use 1-2 because that provides the best intonation. Sometimes, when playing an E-D trill, they would finger the E with just 3, like this: E•D•E•D•E•D = 3•1-3•3•1-3•3•1-3

Make sense? The choice is not made because the trumpeter needs help finding the note. It is made because this alternate valve combination & fingering works better for a fast moving trill.

On the piano, E•D•E•D•E•D can only be played on those two E & D keys, and nowhere else.



Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177804
11/06/13 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Florentin

Trumpet players, to use a different instrument example, will choose to finger a low E with fingers 1-2 or 3, depending on the musical context: most of the time, they would use 1-2 because that provides the best intonation.
[quote]
Sometimes, when playing an E-D trill, they would finger the E with just 3, like this: E•D•E•D•E•D = 3•1-3•3•1-3•3•1-3

I taught trumpet for many years. Your trill example would definitely used 13 to 3, as you said. For intonation, 3 is flat and has to be lipped up on most instruments, while 12 can be tuned with a 1st valve slide, if a note is to be held for some time.

On trumpet most of the notes are played open, 2, or 1. You have three As that use 12, three Abs that use 23, low D and low G that use 13, low C#/Db and F#/Gb that use 123.

But only low E and Eb use 12 and 23 as the first choice, so if you add that all up, you have what? Low F#, G, , C#, D Eb, E, then three Ab/As, then there is the C# in middle range with 12 - unless you are up in super high screech trumpet range. I think that makes 13 notes in the whole chromatic scale that do not use open, 2 or 1, so brass is a REALLY different animal. It is almost 100% lip or embouchure. Even high C#, above high C, is clearer and better in tune with just 2.

My brass students seldom had reading problems. More often they knew the fingerings but could not hear the pitches and so hit the wrong overtones/partials left and right.

I know next to nothing about guitar, but I do think it is very difficult instrument.

You are right about the one to one correspondence of lines and spaces in both clefs to the keys on the piano. So on when teaching piano you have to be very careful, from the start, to make sure that people realize that sooner or later any finger of either hand may play any key.


Piano Teacher
Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177834
11/06/13 05:17 AM
11/06/13 05:17 AM
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Posts: 3,336
Scotland
T
ten left thumbs Offline
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ten left thumbs  Offline
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T
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Scotland
Originally Posted by Florentin

You make some good points.

I disagree (respectfully) about guitarists holding on to position playing until they get going. On the guitar, it is not a crutch. It is simply the way the instrument works. The position in which you play a passage will affect the fingering you use (for both hands), the ease with which you can play, the color that you attain, and also the transitions between the different sections of the piece.

On the classical guitar, position playing is how you play. Of course, beginners will use it as an aid to find the right 'sounds' (not referring to you necessarily smile ). Experienced players will use it to attain the desired technique in both hands, the desired color, and effective transitions between the different sections.

...


I take your point, and I am so much a beginner at classical guitar I have much to learn. To watch some jazz guitarists play, they shift around so easily it is hard to imagine they are thinking in position, and I do look forward to being able to shift and think-in-shifts so easily.

You are quite right to say you can't play piano from a guitar-perspective, or vice versa, but they flip-side is, when you know one, and you're learning the other, you just can't help drawing parallels. A major triad is still a major triad. smile

If you're going to learn both you need some time to immerse yourself in the 'new' instrument.

Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177847
11/06/13 07:08 AM
11/06/13 07:08 AM
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Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
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Nudging the conversation back to piano...

I think more teachers should start to pay attention to the "guidepost notes" method of teaching piano rather than parallel positions (both hands in C, G, F, etc.). Several of the more recent methods use middle C, treble G, treble C, bass F, bass C as the guideposts for students to find their starting positions at the piano. And each time the starting finger would be different, so kids don't automatically start associating 1 with middle C and 5 with treble G.

A lot of students obviously missed this part of the instruction when their teacher either uses an outdated method book or doesn't use a method book at all, or doesn't pay attention to such things as playing notes in the correct octave. So many transfer students come to me without knowing which octave to place their hands, or they firmly believe that their hands MUST MUST MUST be exactly one octave apart, in the same exact positions. One kid can't fathom the fact that the L.H. can start in C position while the R.H. is in G position, one and a half octaves higher.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: Florentin] #2177857
11/06/13 07:49 AM
11/06/13 07:49 AM
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Canada
keystring Offline
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Originally Posted by Florentin
laguna,

Violin/Viola/Cello music is mostly melodic.

Guitar music, as you probably know, is very much like piano music in that there is a lot of harmonic content. In fact, some guitar scores are written in two staves, just like the piano. Comparing guitar music to cello music is not very relevant when discussing this topic. They are just different.
...........

I am starting to see for myself that playing piano WITHOUT thinking positions at all is the better way! On the guitar, however, things work differently. Positions are not used to "find the notes". They are used to attain different colors and different fingerings.


If looking back and forth between piano and guitar is ok, then looking at a bowed string instrument should also be ok. I did not study cello but I did study violin, and I played classical guitar before that. You are probably thinking of long lyrical passages, but in fact, a lot of the music involves broken chords. In terms of hand position choices, the considerations are the same as for guitar because you are playing notes on 3 or 4 adjacent strings which you must reach immediately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYa4nuBwmWo

The harmonies and chords can be heard in this.

Some things we might get out of this:

- All instruments play music which is comprised of melodies and chords, and some things may be in common
- Each instrument gives us a different perspective on the music; play piano like a pianist, guitar like a guitarist etc.
- When you get beyond finding the notes, each instrument has its unique attributes to bring out the musical side. On classical guitar it will be how you pluck the string, whether you play a note on a thicker or thinner string for colour, etc. On piano it may be what you do between pedal and release, how you play that note and adjacent notes with your hands, and more. On violin you have similar considerations as guitar, but bow action is added.

This discussion has added another consideration: HOW an instrument is TAUGHT. If piano is taught via finger numbers and hand positions, the student may have a different perception of music than if it is taught in a different manner. If pedal is taught early or late, you may have a very different picture as well. The same with guitar or string instruments: are things taught via the idea of "positions" or sliding toward a note? If a student stretches over for a note as TLT did, will she consider it as "wrong" or as a natural thing that can and does get done? How do we end up perceiving notes themselves?

Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: keystring] #2177998
11/06/13 02:18 PM
11/06/13 02:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 139
Chicago
Florentin Offline OP
Full Member
Florentin  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 139
Chicago
I know, Keystring.
But in the end, all melodic playing suggests harmonic activity also, does it not?
I do get your point though.

Still, playing a broken chord and playing a blocked chord is not the same, technically speaking. One can play a broken chord that spreads across the entire keyboard... but it is impossible to play that chord blocked.

So you will need different fingerings.

Getting 'a bit' side-tracked here smile



Re: Note Names & Places On The Piano - An "Aha!" Moment [Re: AZNpiano] #2178000
11/06/13 02:24 PM
11/06/13 02:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 139
Chicago
Florentin Offline OP
Full Member
Florentin  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 139
Chicago
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Nudging the conversation back to piano...

I think more teachers should start to pay attention to the "guidepost notes" method of teaching piano rather than parallel positions (both hands in C, G, F, etc.). Several of the more recent methods use middle C, treble G, treble C, bass F, bass C as the guideposts for students to find their starting positions at the piano. And each time the starting finger would be different, so kids don't automatically start associating 1 with middle C and 5 with treble G.

A lot of students obviously missed this part of the instruction when their teacher either uses an outdated method book or doesn't use a method book at all, or doesn't pay attention to such things as playing notes in the correct octave. So many transfer students come to me without knowing which octave to place their hands, or they firmly believe that their hands MUST MUST MUST be exactly one octave apart, in the same exact positions. One kid can't fathom the fact that the L.H. can start in C position while the R.H. is in G position, one and a half octaves higher.


love this post!
I think it describes a big part of the problem.


Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

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