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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: Jean-Luc] #2171635
10/25/13 02:59 AM
10/25/13 02:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
Spanish living in UK
evamar Offline OP
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Thanks Jean-Luc, I got a reply from Reidys, saying "I had one of our technician run through the piano as they assembled it for delivery. All the keys were playing fine, however you sometimes find that the higher keys don't sound or resonate the same as the rest, as they are more percussive than an actual note."

As you said, to put in perspective it's something that can only be noticed without power or 0 volume, and I know that the "thud" is to be expected with this action and wooden keys. Just wanted to make sure as I just got my new baby!

Yes... I use to play a bit first thing in the morning as I tend to get up quite early... not a sound around, only my piano smile




Last edited by evamar; 10/25/13 03:00 AM.

Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: Kawai James] #2171640
10/25/13 03:17 AM
10/25/13 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Congrats evamar!

Also, judging by your post in the 'Prices Paid' thread, I think you got a really great deal!

James
x


Huh....damn. You did get a great deal. That's just about $1,000 less than what my dealer sold mine to me for. You got some negotiating skills (or skilz as the kids spell it these days.)


Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: evamar] #2171649
10/25/13 03:30 AM
10/25/13 03:30 AM
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Quote
It really is a fantastic piano, and my absolutely only concern is that the last 3 G keys make a very slightly different sound to the rest. It's like the "thud" noise that the rest of keys make is up by half a tone and just a bit louder in those Gs (???). Something you can really only notice playing them with the power off, but enough to be worrying. Could it be the felts?

Could anybody with a recently bought CA please let me know if they have noticed any difference between the keys noise when the power is off?


That's weird...I never noticed before but I took my headphones off, turned the piano off and I checked... and sure enough I have that same difference in my last 2 Gs. My CA65 is only 2 months old.

Um, I still can't get over what a great deal you got....I decidedly won't tell my husband how good a deal you got. He would not be happy with me!


Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: lizkey] #2171650
10/25/13 03:34 AM
10/25/13 03:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
Spanish living in UK
evamar Offline OP
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Originally Posted by lizkey
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Congrats evamar!

Also, judging by your post in the 'Prices Paid' thread, I think you got a really great deal!

James
x


Huh....damn. You did get a great deal. That's just about $1,000 less than what my dealer sold mine to me for. You got some negotiating skills (or skilz as the kids spell it these days.)




I know, I know!!! laugh yippie

At the end of the day, we as final buyers do not know the trade price, so I think that negotiation should never be off the table. I would happily have gone for the CN34 if they hadn't accepted my offer as I also got a good deal with that model, but obviously it was also a decent offer for them. Keep in mind that I was trading-in an old piano and not taking a couple extras too, but considering the price of a new CL26 I know I got a great deal. Reidys were brilliant.

I love my new CA65!
3hearts



Last edited by evamar; 10/25/13 03:35 AM.

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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: lizkey] #2171653
10/25/13 03:43 AM
10/25/13 03:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
Spanish living in UK
evamar Offline OP
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Originally Posted by lizkey


That's weird...I never noticed before but I took my headphones off, turned the piano off and I checked... and sure enough I have that same difference in my last 2 Gs. My CA65 is only 2 months old.


Thanks for your reply, it seems then that this is normal for the CA models, so not to worry. It really is barely noticeable, to be fair, but I was checking absolutely everything and I thought it was strange.

Originally Posted by lizkey
Um, I still can't get over what a great deal you got....I decidedly won't tell my husband how good a deal you got. He would not be happy with me!


... I won't tell him, not to worry... wink


Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: evamar] #2172409
10/26/13 02:33 PM
10/26/13 02:33 PM
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Spanish living in UK
evamar Offline OP
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Another little thing I have noticed with my new piano...

Using the Grand Concert 2 (which happens to be my favourite voice so I use it a lot) I have noticed that the 5th C sharp note sounds with a bit of extra noise, a bit metallic, but could be some extra vibration, not sure how to describe it, sorry.

Funny thing is that it only seems to happen with this piano voice. I was all worried about the actual key and trying other voices and then I noticed that it didn't happen with them, only with the Grand Concert 2!

Is this even possible or am I going mad here? Has the actual voice been recorded with the 5th C sharp like that?

Could any other owners of a CA65 and I guess a CA95 try this note with this voice and let me know???

confused

It's nothing really terrible, but I'm just surprised that it only happens with that voice.... which I happen to love, so I hope I won't get paranoid about it.




Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: evamar] #2172415
10/26/13 03:07 PM
10/26/13 03:07 PM
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mabraman Online content
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Dear Evamar, welcome to the land of 88 key sampling smile
You are not mad: in my ES7, for instance, there are some weird notes here and there. They are few, and though it's nothing terrible it is bad enough so as to choose one voice or other, depending on what you are playing or your mood. If there is a piece in wich THAT note appears often...It can be irritating.

My case: Concert Grand 1, E natural in the central octave has a bad sound, uneven and weird, the kind of sound that reminds you to call the tuner to get some voicing done on it.
Studio Grand 1, same but now on F and F#.
Mellow Grand 1, one weird black note on the right hand has a very short attack and a very, very bad decay, strange and out of tune...ONLY IF YOU PLAY IT PP.
Besides, you should expect some notes to cause a strange sound when played toghether. A matter of ressonance, I guess, that can be reduced via Virtual Technician.

I once dreamed about these things being solved by Kawai via update, but someone in Kawai Europe told me it was a way to make AP sound more "real". No comment.



Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: mabraman] #2172448
10/26/13 04:40 PM
10/26/13 04:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
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Spanish living in UK
evamar Offline OP
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Originally Posted by mabraman
Dear Evamar, welcome to the land of 88 key sampling smile
You are not mad:


Glad to know! Some people who know me well think otherwise, and my mum never got me tested, so I can't refuse their opinion! laugh

Originally Posted by mabraman
in my ES7, for instance, there are some weird notes here and there. They are few, and though it's nothing terrible it is bad enough so as to choose one voice or other, depending on what you are playing or your mood. If there is a piece in wich THAT note appears often...It can be irritating.

My case: Concert Grand 1, E natural in the central octave has a bad sound, uneven and weird, the kind of sound that reminds you to call the tuner to get some voicing done on it.
Studio Grand 1, same but now on F and F#.
Mellow Grand 1, one weird black note on the right hand has a very short attack and a very, very bad decay, strange and out of tune...ONLY IF YOU PLAY IT PP.
Besides, you should expect some notes to cause a strange sound when played toghether. A matter of ressonance, I guess, that can be reduced via Virtual Technician.


Strange, especially the one that only does that when played pp! I just got the piano a couple days ago, so everything is still new for me. Just came across this funny one now, hopefully it will be the only one and I won't start playing something that uses it constantly. Not really terrible, it's only one note, but I KNOW IT'S THERE!!!

Originally Posted by mabraman
I once dreamed about these things being solved by Kawai via update, but someone in Kawai Europe told me it was a way to make AP sound more "real". No comment.


I can understand some "non perfect" things being "copied" in order to make transition to an acoustic easier... like the pedals in some models, but this? Surely the acoustic owners would be happier without this happening to their pianos?!

Anyway, thanks for letting me know that at least I'm not imagining things... crazy

P.S. ¿Eres de Valencia? Viví allí antes de venir a Inglaterra.




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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: evamar] #2172479
10/26/13 06:07 PM
10/26/13 06:07 PM
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Yep, hence my bad english. wink With regards to 88 key sampling, now I understand why some brands (say Yamaha)don't work on it anymore. It's nice to have a non-stretched sound, but on the other hand you have 88 chances of something sounding weird.
Dp´s can´t be serviced when the issue is coming from the sample, so it's an update or nothing. We'll see...
As you said before, nothing terrible but WE KNOW IT'S THERE! In the case of E natural, makes it unplayable for a beginner. Luckily you can go around it and choose, for instance, Mellow Grand with a bright voicing, and be done with that.
Some models are named "milestones". If they only knew what this can mean in spanish...:)


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: mabraman] #2172488
10/26/13 06:30 PM
10/26/13 06:30 PM
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Slovakia
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Originally Posted by mabraman

I once dreamed about these things being solved by Kawai via update, but someone in Kawai Europe told me it was a way to make AP sound more "real". No comment.



I really don't understand this trend to make DP sound real by emulating DEFECTS of acoustic pianos (like damper noise...). I hope we will see exhaust gas feature for electric cars soon :-)


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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: mabraman] #2172522
10/26/13 09:09 PM
10/26/13 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mabraman

My case: Concert Grand 1, E natural in the central octave has a bad sound, uneven and weird, the kind of sound that reminds you to call the tuner to get some voicing done on it.

Studio Grand 1, same but now on F and F#.


Mabraman, I tried on my ES7 the Concert Grand 1 (E central octave) and Studio Grand 1 (F/F# central octave). Both sounded ok. My settings were Voicing=Mellow1 and Reverb=Concert Hall. Then, I set the Voicing=Normal and Reverb=Off, and they sounded ok too.

I'm not sure, but could it be the unit itself, not ES7?

But I know how frustrating it can be when you hear something not quite right and it distracts you from playing.

For example, I have 2 clicky keys on my ES7 after some moderate use and the technician that came told me it's "okay", no need to fix (go figure). Also, some time ago, for a period of 2 weeks, it generated some weird internal "echo" when I'm playing, like the system is going into overdrive. But it has since mysteriously gone away and hasn't happened for the past month.

These minor issues are bummers on my ES7. But every time I touch its keys and hear the sound that comes out from its built-in speakers, all is forgiven.







Last edited by iceporky; 10/26/13 09:14 PM. Reason: grammar
Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: evamar] #2172617
10/27/13 04:31 AM
10/27/13 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by evamar
Another little thing I have noticed with my new piano...

Using the Grand Concert 2 (which happens to be my favourite voice so I use it a lot) I have noticed that the 5th C sharp note sounds with a bit of extra noise, a bit metallic, but could be some extra vibration, not sure how to describe it, sorry.


Take your piano away from wall and play key loudly. Is there the strange metallic sound? If not, you have a resonance problem. I have some of those cases and have solved them lowering volume for specific keys. It works wonderfully. Another great feature from high end Kawais.

Very proud and happy with my new piano. It allows me subtle configuration nuances for great global feeling.

Good luck.


Kawai CA97
Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: iceporky] #2172624
10/27/13 05:13 AM
10/27/13 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by iceporky
Originally Posted by mabraman

My case: Concert Grand 1, E natural in the central octave has a bad sound, uneven and weird, the kind of sound that reminds you to call the tuner to get some voicing done on it.

Studio Grand 1, same but now on F and F#.


Mabraman, I tried on my ES7 the Concert Grand 1 (E central octave) and Studio Grand 1 (F/F# central octave). Both sounded ok. My settings were Voicing=Mellow1 and Reverb=Concert Hall. Then, I set the Voicing=Normal and Reverb=Off, and they sounded ok too.

I'm not sure, but could it be the unit itself, not ES7?

But I know how frustrating it can be when you hear something not quite right and it distracts you from playing.

For example, I have 2 clicky keys on my ES7 after some moderate use and the technician that came told me it's "okay", no need to fix (go figure). Also, some time ago, for a period of 2 weeks, it generated some weird internal "echo" when I'm playing, like the system is going into overdrive. But it has since mysteriously gone away and hasn't happened for the past month.

These minor issues are bummers on my ES7. But every time I touch its keys and hear the sound that comes out from its built-in speakers, all is forgiven.


Unfortunately, it's not just my unit but maybe an entire shipment. I tested another one recently, and had the same sound from the same keys.
When discussing it whith the salesman, I realized he wasn't happy at all with 88 key sampling. Seems that a good amount of customers had complained about these things and, in fact, the precedent model (ES6) showed real issues that led them to return a whole shipment to the manufacturer. So he said. They're Kawai official dealers for my town, so these are not biased opinions.
Anyway, let's not hijack the thread, I just stepped into to let the OP know she's not flipping out.






Last edited by mabraman; 10/27/13 05:16 AM.

Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: mabraman] #2172630
10/27/13 05:57 AM
10/27/13 05:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 579
Spanish living in UK
evamar Offline OP
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Originally Posted by mabraman
I just stepped into to let the OP know she's not flipping out.



I feel better knowing that I'm not imagining things and that this is actually something that happens in real pianos and is not an actual defect of my piano, but I still think that it shouldn't have been "cloned" to digital pianos. The dp technicians could perfectly have adapted the "real" sound to get rid of its defects, and I do mean defects, let's stop talking about sound characteristics, personalities and other fables.

Still a great dp with a fantastic touch and sound, I'm extremely happy with it and so far I have only discovered that one note in one voice... but it's there without a good reason!!! crazy

I'll give Brometeo's trick a go, hopefully playing a bit with the settings will solve it as I really like this voice.

... Still have to study the manual!!! whome


Last edited by evamar; 10/27/13 09:12 AM.

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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: evamar] #2172691
10/27/13 09:16 AM
10/27/13 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Evamar
Using the Grand Concert 2 (which happens to be my favourite voice so I use it a lot) I have noticed that the 5th C sharp note sounds with a bit of extra noise, a bit metallic, but could be some extra vibration, not sure how to describe it, sorry.


Evamar, I tried the 5th C# node (is it one octave above the middle C?) in Concert Grand 2 and could not hear anything strange about it. Do you hear it when you use heaphones, speakers, or both?

Frankly, compared to virtual pianos that I have, the sound in CA65 seems very, very uniform. My favourite VST for intimate pieces, Galaxy Vienna Grand, has a strong metalic overtone in C5 and still I would pick it over CA65 any time.

Galaxy Vintage D has a lot of irregularities in timbre between keys and yet it receives so much praise on this forum (I found out how to get rid of most offending tones in Vintage D so I have no gripes with it now). It seems that for most people, the quality of piano sound lies somewhere else than in uniform timbre. I personally used to be disturbed with these irregularities too, but got used to it and nowadays I almost ignore it.


Kawai CA65 :: Galaxy: Vintage D, Vienna Grand, Giant :: Pianoteq 5 :: Kontakt 5 :: Reaper :: True Keys pianos
Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: evamar] #2172927
10/27/13 08:42 PM
10/27/13 08:42 PM
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Evamar, I hope this doesn't happen to you, but there may be a slight possibility that you could be in for a very unpleasant surprise, as regards your new CA-65.

In November 2012 I purchased the CN34, brand-new-in-the-box, from a dealer in Wisconsin, USA. After I and my brother assembled it, I began to notice that the C on the second octave was behaving strangely. Sometimes it played normally, but at other times it suddenly banged out much too loudly, even to the point that it lost equalization. Just as badly, when I would play it with repetitive 16th or 32nd notes, it would lose audio volume. To a lesser extent, the B beside it was also affected.
The two keys felt mushy, as if a mat of hair was caught between them.

As I am only an intermediate player, I held back from contacting Kawai for several months, just to make sure my left hand wasn't 'heavy', which would be the real cause of the problem. Never mind that I wasn't having any problem with other bass keys.

After ruining one recording after another when C would suddenly explode, despite the fact that I was very careful in gently playing it, I contacted Kawai tech support at the beginning of April, 2013. After I put the CN34 through the tests they suggested, tech support agreed that I had a problem, and they would send a repair agent to my house to fix the issue.

It has now been almost seven months, and I'm still waiting. Kawai told me that since a repair agent lived a full 100 miles away from me, I would have to wait until enough orders were filed before they would service my CN34. I called the tech center four times throughout the spring and summer, having them repeat my email address and phone number back to me, to make sure they could contact me. The last time I called resulted in a less-than-pleasant experience, and I never called back.

I talked to Alan Palmer about my problem with tech support, but he proved to be of zero help. My dealer in Wisconsin told me that if I continued to have problems, he would personally contact them. But after I consistently called him and complained, his suggestion was to have me trade my CN34 in to him for a more expensive model. Which is to say, he never really had any interest in helping me out.

I now have a lemon that will only be fixed by spending hundreds of dollars for a technician from outside the state. For me at least, Kawai's warranty isn't worth a single sheet of soiled toilet paper.

I can assure you that there will be Kawai owners who will respond to this post by telling you of the great service they've received, and for them that's wonderful. But if you'd like a long evening's reading, go to your search engine and look for customer complaints regarding Kawai's warranty reliability.

In closing, I just thought I'd give you a quick heads-up. Try not to have a heart attack if you ever call tech support for your problem and things don't go the way you thought they would.

Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: ADWyatt] #2172982
10/27/13 11:00 PM
10/27/13 11:00 PM
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@ADWyatt,

I also had a less than best experience in previously owning a Kawai CA95 which I had requested a few minor adjustments for in regards to clicking/sticking keys and a few keys that needed be properly spaced. My local store sent out a technician to do the adjustments and he only did adjustments for the sticking keys and ignored the other issues. After putting the piano back together the tech didn't line up the sliding keyboard cover correctly which resulted in an annoying rattly noise every time I would open or close the cover!

The problem appears to have been with the local tech as he may have not had a lot of experience with digital pianos in general and did not appear to be a true authentic "Kawai" technician. I didn't wait to ask for another tech to deal with all of the adjustments I wanted as there was no one else available.

I eventually traded in the CA95 for a CLP-480 as there is at least one reputable tech in my area who has had plenty of hands on experience with Yamaha's.

Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: ADWyatt] #2172996
10/27/13 11:52 PM
10/27/13 11:52 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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ADWyatt, I'm sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience, even if this isn't strictly related to the topic being discussed (characteristics of 88-key sampling).

I'm afraid there isn't a great deal that I can do assist with this keyboard-related matter as my responsibilities are primarily related to preparing owner's manuals and marketing materials.

However, I shall ask my colleagues at Kawai America to look into your situation and hope that a resolution can be found shortly.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: pv88] #2173000
10/28/13 12:08 AM
10/28/13 12:08 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by pv88
I also had a less than best experience in previously owning a Kawai CA95 which I had requested a few minor adjustments for in regards to clicking/sticking keys and a few keys that needed be properly spaced.


Richard, I seem to recall that the issue you initially reported on this forum was related to keys 'sticking' when lifted up, not when pushed down. A somewhat strange fault to pursue, although as a customer, this is something that you have every right to do.

However, may I politely ask that you attempt to keep this discussion on-topic. With the greatest respect, your experiences regarding a technician and a squeaky lid cover are not terribly relevant to this thread. On the other hand, please do feel free to reiterate your dissatisfaction at the CA95's 'metallic sound' and general inferiority compared to Yamaha instruments.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New Kawai CA65!!! [Re: evamar] #2173005
10/28/13 12:27 AM
10/28/13 12:27 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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evamar, as Brometeo recommends, it may be worthwhile adjusting the position of the CA65 in relation to the room or other objects that can resonate at certain frequencies.

If you are still hearing the sound on a certain note when a specific voice is selected, I believe this may be a tonal characteristic of the original sample - present when the piano was recorded. The sample itself cannot be changed, however the instrument's various Virtual Technician settings may allow the characteristics to be adjusted.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
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