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Joined: May 2012
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They're all so hard. Why are we fighting over this?
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They're all so hard. Why are we fighting over this? Because some people said it's not that hard, and they need to be shouted down to avoid having our esteemed site promulgate misinformation.
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I believe that if you cannot figure out how difficult a piece is by yourself, it is too difficult for you.
Semipro Tech
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I believe that if you cannot figure out how difficult a piece is by yourself, it is too difficult for you. Non-sequitur.
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Actually it sequits quite fine.
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Actually it sequits quite fine. I don't think so. OP didn't ask us anything about whether or not he could play it..
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Actually it sequits quite fine. I don't think so. OP didn't ask us anything about whether or not he could play it. Well yeah. (I forgot.) But BDB was only saying was what he was saying, and I said what I said about what he was saying.
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Actually, difficulty can be measured on a scale of 2: 1 if you cannot play it, and 2 if you can. That makes as much sense as any other measure.
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For what it's worth, here's my experience with this Scherzo:
For a while I struggled, a lot. I'd always thought of it as one of the most ferocious statements in music, and I struggled to convey that, while I struggled to get the notes. It was never in control, and always exhausting.
Then (under my teacher's guidance) I started playing it much quieter. Slightly more elegantly. I began to feel that, yes, it did fit under the fingers, and I saw that many of the phrases on the first page were just based on the B minor arpeggio. I began to play it very light, and fast, and lean-- and only then did I achieve the level of ferocity that I wanted from the beginning. It never became easy, but this new approach placed it under my control (and made it sound better).
-Jason
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Oh well. As long as we're all just 'saying what we're saying' , I think everyone should learn the Impromptus before they play the larger works. I see them as an important segue. I think that a lot of students get a feeling of affirmation of their technique from conquering the posthumous one. Sadly, not enough go for the 2nd. I think it's even harder than the 4th. It's odd, really. It's hardly the kind of structure that his other three are. It's in a world of its own. I think I saw someone call it a 'mini-Ballade' here on PW some time ago. I like that. I wish he would have written more of these mini-Ballades with the same format. Maybe call title them "Ballade petit". Would have been a lovely Chopin genre I think.
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Then (under my teacher's guidance) I started playing it much quieter. Slightly more elegantly. Yes! That's what people very often miss in Chopin, it needs elegance and grace. It should never sound like a bullfight.
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Then (under my teacher's guidance) I started playing it much quieter. Slightly more elegantly. Yes! That's what people very often miss in Chopin, it needs elegance and grace. It should never sound like a bullfight. Surely that depends on which Chopin piece is under discussion. I'd say the Scherzo No.1 is one of his most angriest and most ferocious pieces. I think the poster you quoted was talking mostly how he improved his technical control of the piece. He says that "only then did I achieve the level of ferocity I wanted".
Last edited by pianoloverus; 10/25/13 09:46 AM.
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Joined: May 2001
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Then (under my teacher's guidance) I started playing it much quieter. Slightly more elegantly. Yes! That's what people very often miss in Chopin, it needs elegance and grace. It should never sound like a bullfight. Surely that depends on which Chopin work is being discussed. I think the Scherzo No.1 is one of his most angry and ferocious works, and "elegant" is not really part of the picture. My impression is that the poster you quoted was describing how he developed the technical control for the piece. He said something to the effect that this was how he was able to achieve the level of ferocity he required. Some other Chopin works or parts of works where I think elegance is not really part of the picture: Ballade No.2 except for the slow sections, codas of Ballades Nos. 1 and 4, much of Scherzo No.2, first two movements of Sonata Op. 35, Etudes Op. 25 Nos. 10-12, Preludes in D minor and B flat minor, middle section of Nocturne Op. 15 No.1, etc.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Wow, everyone's contributing a lot to this discussion! Thanks to everyone! Regarding the questioning of whether I can play the piece: I THINK I can, but that is why I am asking this question. I have not played it before. I usually don't have a problem with the musicality aspects of chopin pieces, but obviously this piece does have a nasty technical side. Do you think the technique required is much more than the Prokofiev I'm playing (see signature)? @BDB (I assume that comment was meant regarding me): I have not tried to play some of the notes, and I have spent around 30 seconds looking at the notes, and listened once to a youtube recording. I do not have time right now, since I'm preparing for a competition in 2 weeks @JoelW: I, too, have only played the fantasie impromptu and not the others
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Then (under my teacher's guidance) I started playing it much quieter. Slightly more elegantly. Yes! That's what people very often miss in Chopin, it needs elegance and grace. It should never sound like a bullfight. Surely that depends on which Chopin work is being discussed. I think the Scherzo No.1 is one of his most angry and ferocious works, and "elegant" is not really part of the picture. My impression is that the poster you quoted was describing how he developed the technical control for the piece. He said something to the effect that this was how he was able to achieve the level of ferocity he required. Some other Chopin works or parts of works where I think elegance is not really part of the picture: Ballade No.2 except for the slow sections, codas of Ballades Nos. 1 and 4, much of Scherzo No.2, first two movements of Sonata Op. 35, Etudes Op. 25 Nos. 10-12, Preludes in D minor and B flat minor, middle section of Nocturne Op. 15 No.1, etc. Elegance isn't part of the picture, eh? Well, that's the great thing about music, we can all interpret it the way we like. We're free to play with grace or to bang our way through it. To each his own...
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Joined: Jun 2003
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If you are preparing for a competition, you should not be worrying about other pieces to play. Concentrate on your competition pieces. If you want to play other music for a change or a break, just play things that are fun and relaxing to play.
Semipro Tech
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What I learned from my teacher in this particular piece was: the path to the most vicious, ferocious harrowing performance is, surprisingly, through elegance.
-J
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Joined: Oct 2013
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OP
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If you are preparing for a competition, you should not be worrying about other pieces to play. Concentrate on your competition pieces. If you want to play other music for a change or a break, just play things that are fun and relaxing to play. Which is why I'm not worrying about it. I'm not playing the piece right now, and I don't think posting this thread on piano world is too much of a distraction.
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Aha! So this is all a ruse to distract your competition from concentrating on their preparation!
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Aha! So this is all a ruse to distract your competition from concentrating on their preparation! You got it!
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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