Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
117 registered members (andrea monza, AJB, ajames, Alexander Borro, accordeur, Amedeus, 28 invisible), 1,847 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2170716 - 10/23/13 02:54 PM What would you do  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
A Guy Offline
Full Member
A Guy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
St Louis
What would you do if there's only a couple days before a competition or recital, and you realized that you've been playing a note wrong (something that can't really be noticed much, but might mess up your playing of that section when you fix it at top speed) for months. Would you attempt to fix it, or leave it as it is so nothing gets messed up?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2170734 - 10/23/13 03:30 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,709
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Pogorelich.  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,709
not somewhere over the rainbow
Leave it. It that happens to me, chances are I'll be hitting many wrong notes anyway, so what's one more... Haha



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#2170736 - 10/23/13 03:34 PM Re: What would you do [Re: Pogorelich.]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
A Guy Offline
Full Member
A Guy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
St Louis
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Leave it. It that happens to me, chances are I'll be hitting many wrong notes anyway, so what's one more... Haha


smile

Last edited by A Guy; 10/23/13 03:35 PM.
#2170737 - 10/23/13 03:39 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,726
bennevis Offline
9000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,726
One misreading?

There are a number of studio recordings by great pianists that contain misreadings. Which means that not only the pianists but the recording producers missed them too.

Others just leave wrong notes in for posterity grin.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2170743 - 10/23/13 03:54 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
A Guy Offline
Full Member
A Guy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
St Louis
Yeah, it seems minor, but I'm just wondering, if you noticed it, would you attempt to fix it, or just leave it? Since its not a huge mess up

#2170746 - 10/23/13 03:55 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 774
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member
patH  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 774
Germany
The problem: If you play a wrong note in a recital and you know it's wrong, it might influence the rest of the performance.

I'd say: Try practicing it once or twice with the "correct" note, and if it doesn't work, stick with what you know.


Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
#2170756 - 10/23/13 04:11 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,726
bennevis Offline
9000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,726
Originally Posted by A Guy
Yeah, it seems minor, but I'm just wondering, if you noticed it, would you attempt to fix it, or just leave it? Since its not a huge mess up

Forget about it.

Fix it afterwards, if you intend to play it again. Don't mess up your hard-learnt muscle memory for the sake of one note and put your recital in jeopardy - one moment of hesitation while you debate between two notes can derail the whole piece, so why risk it?


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
#2170761 - 10/23/13 04:26 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,768
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member
jazzyprof  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,768
Ann Arbor, MI
Turn it into the perfect wrong note! Clearly, the note you've been playing all this time fits musically in the piece otherwise you would have noticed it a long time ago. So, let it be and think of it as an ossia.


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
#2170766 - 10/23/13 04:43 PM Re: What would you do [Re: jazzyprof]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,166
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member
TheHappyMoron  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,166
UK
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Turn it into the perfect wrong note! Clearly, the note you've been playing all this time fits musically in the piece otherwise you would have noticed it a long time ago. So, let it be and think of it as an ossia.


+1 exactly what I thought. If you've been studying this piece assiduously for months and only just noticed like anyone in the audience will.


All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.
#2170839 - 10/23/13 07:19 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
A Guy Offline
Full Member
A Guy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
St Louis
Ok thanks everyone! And btw, it's a Prokofiev sonata smile and the wrong note was a b flat plus c instead of a b flat and a flat. Also, my competitions in 2 weeks, not a couple days, but I've got a performance in a couple days

Last edited by A Guy; 10/23/13 07:20 PM.
#2170846 - 10/23/13 07:41 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,263
Polyphonist Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,263
New York City
In a Prokofiev sonata, one wrong note is not going to make much of a difference. Only those who have studied the piece (and not even all of those) will hear it, and if they do they'll probably just think it was a key slip.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2170856 - 10/23/13 08:03 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
A Guy Offline
Full Member
A Guy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
St Louis
Thanks!

#2170921 - 10/23/13 10:36 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,651
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,651
New York
Everybody here is right.
But when that happened to me once, I didn't follow what y'all are saying.

While I was in the warm-up room before going onstage in a competition, I noticed that the score of Chopin's F minor Fantaisie showed one note slightly different in an accompaniment figure than what I'd been playing -- dunno, maybe something like an Eb instead of a C in an arpeggiated thing. So, I figured I'd play it the right way when I got up there -- why the heck not. And I did -- but it probably kept me from playing the whole rest of the piece as freely and as well as I might have.

It was dumb. Especially because later on, I saw that my old wrong way wasn't really wrong -- it was just a thing of different versions in different editions. ha

#2170958 - 10/23/13 11:50 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,204
Auntie Lynn Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Auntie Lynn  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,204
San Francisco, CA
Depends on the piece - if it's a Beethoven sonata, judges will notice - if it's Vers la Flamme, probably not...



#2170969 - 10/24/13 12:10 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Auntie Lynn]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,263
Polyphonist Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,263
New York City
Originally Posted by Auntie Lynn
Depends on the piece - if it's a Beethoven sonata, judges will notice.

You'd be surprised...


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2170971 - 10/24/13 12:14 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Auntie Lynn]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,651
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,651
New York
Originally Posted by Auntie Lynn
....if it's Vers la Flamme, probably not...

You'd be surprised. grin

#2170973 - 10/24/13 12:16 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 407
pianorigami Offline
Full Member
pianorigami  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 407
United States
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Auntie Lynn
Depends on the piece - if it's a Beethoven sonata, judges will notice.

You'd be surprised...

I agree with Polyphonist. Beethoven has thick textures a lot of the time; Mozart, on the other hand, or Scarlatti (for the most part), have thin, super-exposed textures that need to be hit perfectly.

As for the Prokofiev, I probably hit 80-90% of the notes when I play it, but as long as the message is there, the judge won't mind TOO much.


Everyday is a great day.
#2170981 - 10/24/13 12:29 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,648
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member
jeffreyjones  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,648
San Jose, CA
Originally Posted by A Guy
What would you do if there's only a couple days before a competition or recital, and you realized that you've been playing a note wrong (something that can't really be noticed much, but might mess up your playing of that section when you fix it at top speed) for months. Would you attempt to fix it, or leave it as it is so nothing gets messed up?


Sviatoslav Richter played the same wrong note in Bach's Italian Concerto for decades. When he discovered it, he made his record label issue an apology with subsequent printings. In the apology he notes that in forty years, no one had said anything to him about the wrong note!

#2171068 - 10/24/13 06:46 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
A Guy Offline
Full Member
A Guy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
St Louis
@pianorigami: oh I can never play all the notes right in Prokofiev either smile

#2171075 - 10/24/13 06:55 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 133
jehalliday Offline
Full Member
jehalliday  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Ontario, Canada
I also vote for "leave it". This happened recently to me - just 5 days before my RCM GR 10 exam, I realized I had been playing a wrong note in a Chopin nocturne. I had previously played this piece in recitals, music festivals and adjudicators and no one, including my teacher,had ever noticed. It did sound harmonically correct. I left it and the examiner made no comment either. In fact, this piece earned my highest mark in the exam, wrong note and all. Trying to fix it at that stage can cause far more noticeable problems than a wrong note

#2171148 - 10/24/13 08:56 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,389
Sam S Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,389
Georgia, USA
This has happened to me more frequently that I like, and I thought it was my age or bad eyesight - usually in a thick chord where an inner note is wrong. My teacher is very good at pointing these out to me, but it's disconcerting that she can hear the errors and I can't. Of course, she's usually been teaching these pieces for decades.

Nice to see that other people have the same problem.

Sam

#2171163 - 10/24/13 09:21 AM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,883
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Piano*Dad  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,883
Williamsburg, VA
I was listening to an Arrau recording of Debussy's Suite Pour le Piano a few years ago, back when my son was working up the piece. I was very familiar with the score at that point. To my shock and surprise, Arrau completely changed one of the ending chords. This wasn't some random note in a rapid wash of sound. It was a single chord played firmly and majestically .... wrong. It was the sort of thing that caused the proverbial double take. I had to replay it several times to believe that he had just misread, or changed, what Debussy wrote.

#2171193 - 10/24/13 10:03 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Piano*Dad]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,263
Polyphonist Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,263
New York City
Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
I was listening to an Arrau recording of Debussy's Suite Pour le Piano a few years ago, back when my son was working up the piece. I was very familiar with the score at that point. To my shock and surprise, Arrau completely changed one of the ending chords. This wasn't some random note in a rapid wash of sound. It was a single chord played firmly and majestically .... wrong. It was the sort of thing that caused the proverbial double take. I had to replay it several times to believe that he had just misread, or changed, what Debussy wrote.

Pity. I guess he should have listened to some recordings then. grin


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2171210 - 10/24/13 10:42 AM Re: What would you do [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,726
bennevis Offline
9000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,726
Misreadings are not at all uncommon, even on recordings preserved for posterity.

There's one in Jean-Philippe Collard's recording of Ravel's G major Concerto, another in Radu Lupu's of Brahms's Op.118, and there was a wrong note in Martha Argerich's recording of Chopin's 24 Preludes (beginning of No.16) - though that was patched up on its CD reissue. Many of Daniel Barenboim's recordings have minor fluffs left in (I assume they were fluffs rather than misreadings).

And these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.....


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
#2171523 - 10/24/13 09:21 PM Re: What would you do [Re: bennevis]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,485
Ridicolosamente Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Ridicolosamente  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,485
Albany, NY, USA
Originally Posted by pianorigami
...I probably hit 80-90% of the notes when I play it, but as long as the message is there, the judge won't mind TOO much.
Umm.. that's a LOT of wrong notes. Like... too many for any kind of serious performance.

Originally Posted by bennevis
...and there was a wrong note in Martha Argerich's recording of Chopin's 24 Preludes (beginning of No.16)
I typically don't mind a flub or six... but this one in particular always irked me. And the "patch" never satisfied me because it's impossible to ignore that it is a patch.

-Daniel


Currently working on:
-Poulenc Trois pièces
-Liszt Harmonies du Soir
-Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
#2171524 - 10/24/13 09:29 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
A Guy Offline
Full Member
A Guy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
St Louis
I think pianorigami is exaggerating, I play the piece too, and though I really only get like 1-2% of notes wrong probably, it seems a lot to me

#2171530 - 10/24/13 09:49 PM Re: What would you do [Re: A Guy]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 407
pianorigami Offline
Full Member
pianorigami  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 407
United States
Originally Posted by A Guy
I think pianorigami is exaggerating, I play the piece too, and though I really only get like 1-2% of notes wrong probably, it seems a lot to me


Thanks for the backup!
My point being that Prokofiev's chords aren't like Mozart's.
There are just certain places that are quite difficult to pull off in a performance.
For example, Idel Biret's rendition is ridiculously fast, and as a result, she misses a TON of notes, but it's still powerful.


Everyday is a great day.
#2171533 - 10/24/13 09:51 PM Re: What would you do [Re: pianorigami]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,263
Polyphonist Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,263
New York City
Originally Posted by pianorigami
Originally Posted by A Guy
I think pianorigami is exaggerating, I play the piece too, and though I really only get like 1-2% of notes wrong probably, it seems a lot to me


Thanks for the backup!
My point being that Prokofiev's chords aren't like Mozart's.
There are just certain places that are quite difficult to pull off in a performance.
For example, Idel Biret's rendition is ridiculously fast, and as a result, she misses a TON of notes, but it's still powerful.

Last time I performed this piece, I missed 98% of the notes. Goes to show you how difficult it is.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2171570 - 10/24/13 11:11 PM Re: What would you do [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
A Guy Offline
Full Member
A Guy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 325
St Louis
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by pianorigami
Originally Posted by A Guy
I think pianorigami is exaggerating, I play the piece too, and though I really only get like 1-2% of notes wrong probably, it seems a lot to me


Thanks for the backup!
My point being that Prokofiev's chords aren't like Mozart's.
There are just certain places that are quite difficult to pull off in a performance.
For example, Idel Biret's rendition is ridiculously fast, and as a result, she misses a TON of notes, but it's still powerful.

Last time I performed this piece, I missed 98% of the notes. Goes to show you how difficult it is.


Haha, 98%... Yeah this piece is PRETTY difficult (and by pretty I mean very)


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Bach Invention 1 - Feedback
by hyena. 11/21/17 01:34 PM
cheaper pianos actually sound good
by Dave Horne. 11/21/17 09:38 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,871
Posts2,673,331
Members89,168
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0