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Wow, that craigslist Estonia has the old lyre logo that a certain competitor forced them to stop using. Are you sure it is a 2001 instrument?

Quote from Norbert-- "quite generous praise that has been heaved onto this piano by its many new owners."
Know what you mean. Drinking at neighbor's party the other night and dang near heaved on one myself. Think it was ebony 190, luckily made it to fireplace. At the time, hostess' sister or other kinfolk was playing Claire de Lune or whatever she'd learnt that week at music school and generally overestimating her ability. Finally got cleaned up and redeemed myself somewhat with rousing performance of Carry Me Back to Old Virginny in C minor. It was funny that nobody clapped, but I thought Estonia sounded dang near mythical. Then, as I recall, wife had them carry me back home.

Note to self: Don't invite Hoaglie to parties...

If you comparison-shop the Estonia against the other Tier 1 instruments (Bluthner, Bosendorfer, etc.) you'll change your question to "why are these Estonias so INexpensive?"

Gryphon, they told us it was built in 2001. I'm not sure if she bought it in 01 or 02 but she said it was built in 01.

I'd want to know the serial number of this piano.

The 2001 Estonia was purchased from Brook Mays, a reputable dealer in Dallas, who has since gone out of business. I didn't have any reason to think that the piano might be questionable. I'm sure they would give you the serial number if you contact them. Very nice couple.

I already have an Estonia. But if I were in the market to buy that one I'd want to verify its real build date.

I have 2 questions,

1. Are Estonia Grand Pianos available in the UK new? If so, where and what are the prices?

2. Are there other piano makers similar to Estonia who produce good pianos at good value for money?

Thanks!

Answer to #2: Bohemia (a subsidiary of Bechstein, I believe) and Petrof come to mind. Both sound great and should be within range of the Estonias.

It really depends on how much the Estonias are selling for these days, because the more they raise their prices the more competition they have.

Good pianos at good value for the money: Most Chinese pianos would be in this category.

Great pianos at great value for the money: That depends on your definition of great, and what is most important to you.

Go play some pianos first without getting too much advice about what should sound good to you. If you are a beginner you have a huge choice of pianos. If you are an advanced player, you should just trust yourself and not second guess your findings based on what you read here, including my comments.

Clockwiser,

The only Uk dealer I know who sells Estonai is Besbrode pianos in Leeds:

http://www.besbrodepianos.co.uk/showroom/showroom353.htm ; this is a real bargain; probably closing out of a stock piano.

Typical new MRSPs in Europe are:
168: € 20500,- and 190: € 25400,-
Discounts are at the discretion of the dealer but far less than in the US were then the MRSP is higher.
Price increase were rather moderate over the past two years (max. 3% typical)

On the European continent you will find only few dealers too. I know of a couple in Germany and one in Belgium.

Would importing a 190 from Belgium be an option, I know of a really favourable priced new stock clearance instrument. If interested send me a PM.

schwammerl.

One thing we have observed for a long time with Estonia is that it 'clicks' with people either real fast - or it doesn't click at all.

Despite the emergence of quite incredible pianos coming from China these days - I'm thinking of the 7' variety of new grands by Hailun and Brodmann here - someone in our store just played a new 5'6 Estonia and was completely taken by it.

This was a person *only* interested in about 7' grands or larger...

One of our most recent customers for a 190 Estonia returned a brand new Steinway B he had just purchased a short while before.

Others have preferred it to Fazioli and some of our own top German brands.

Estonia doesn't seem to need a *reason* or justification - it seems to be found and adopted by players as if an inner clock was ticking between them in almost pre-arranged syncrony...

To be honest, this sometimes happens without any obvious "reason" and has often taken us by complete surprise.

Could it be that this is one piano that chooses its new owner as much as it is being chosen itself?

Norbert

Norbert, have you ever considered writing science fiction?

they have a unique resonance .. it sounds for a while longer yet is very manipulatible. i sure like it..

Dealer hype.

That would be an easy explanation.

But the countless new owners of this piano could not all have been complete idiots and my own magic and imagination in this business only goes so far.

As opposed to yours.....

Norbert

My comment has nothing to do with my opinion of the quality of Estonias(or the Hailuns or Brodmans you mention although they are not the topic of this thread). I happen to like Estonias a lot. My post is about the appropriateness of your post.

That is a bit the weirdness of this forum.

If a non-dealer member, after having played pianos A, B and C, testifies he prefers A to B and certainly to C, then this is appreciated as an interesting comment.

If however a dealer testifies of some customers who preferred A to B and to C, then this is seen as nonsense and hype.

Who is able to prove that one is more reliable than the other?

schwammerl.

It's not a question of reliability. It's a question of dealer self promotion and the rules of this forum(and the number of times some delears self promote).

What could be more blatant than promoting Hailun and Brodmann in a thread about Estonias?

Promotion says call me and I'll give you a deal. Enthusiasm for what is going on in the marketplace including one's own does not stick a finger in anyone else's eye, so I really can't understand your continuing targeting of one or two people.

The topic of the thread is Estonia? As I read it, Norbert's initial comments addressed directly the response real live people have to Estonia - they love its unique character or it doesn't do much for them.

A related response is how visitors react to the tone and performance of the other pianos sitting in his showroom. So he wrote:

(emphasis mine)

So he was showing that beyond any industry-wide "hype" about his Chinese brands, for some people the Estonia continues to have a tremendous personal appeal.

T-dot is right. If an individual is allowed to say "I love my piano" then why is it offensive when a dealer reports "some people really love this piano"? If it is true in one case, it is true in the other.

Or perhaps truth is not a defense for "crimes" such as this...