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Joined: Nov 2008
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No, I did not see the irony because I really didn't read any of this. As soon as I saw that this was another "I want to tune my own piano" post, I gave the only reasonable reply: "Get thee to a tunery!"
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
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As far as the piano is concerned, I would work on the assumption that if there is no visible rust or replaced strings, and no strings have slipped ridiculously flat (ie loose tuning pin) then it'll be safe enough for you to attempt to raise the pitch. My father has just retired, and I know how important it is for him to have something interesting and complex to work on!
What do you know of the theory? Are you aware of how over-pull works? How do you intend to set the temperament?
It seems to all be one big argument round here at the moment!
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How do you intend to set the temperament? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Anyone else see the irony of someone telling us not to tell people what not to do?
There is irony in a person who doesn't really understand irony properly using the word irony...  A big  to those techs who have actually addressed the OP's question. It's you guys that still make this forum an interesting and helpful place to visit for non-techs. 
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How do you intend to set the temperament? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh shush! It's a simple question :-P
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661-Pete, I say go for it! You could have either a very enjoyable or a very frustrating learning experience!
I think I'd be inclined to recommend, before you try a pitch raise, that you practice achieving a decent tuning at the piano's existing pitch. This will give you a feel for the whole process.
In an older piano like this, and which may not have been tuned for a while, I'd carefully aplly a lubricant like Protek CLP to the bearing points of the strings. You don;t strictly havee to use Protek CLP - other lubricants will do. Be careful to use only tiny quantities, just where the string in in contact with a pressure bar and/or frame V-bar. On no a ccount should any lubricant get into bass string windings.
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OP
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What do you know of the theory? Are you aware of how over-pull works? How do you intend to set the temperament? I've done some background reading of course! I also know about the tuning curve and stuff like, my electronic gizmo won't be any good for the unisons etc. etc. etc. But it's been useful reading through the posts here all the same. Note: I've had a shot at tuning in the unisons. You guys are right, I really ought to leave it to the professionals! But hey! - I managed to get most of the beats out...
It seems to all be one big argument round here at the moment!
I had noticed - but hey that's all part of the forum isn't it (I may not know much about tuning but I've had plenty of practice at forums.... ) I might bow out from the forum for now but I may come back after I've wrecked the piano! 
Pete
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As I have said before, if it does not sound good to you the first time you try tuning, you may have some potential for this business!
Semipro Tech
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Pete,
Doing what you are wanting to do on a piano is akin to me thinking about replacing the transmission in my own car. Unless you are really wanting to get into pianos, I would leave this job to a professional. But good luck. You guys sprout off this commentary by reflex. Not everybody is the same - some people have excellent aptitude, technical skills, understanding of physics etc. This blanket approach of "just never do it yourself, call a pro" is incredibly dismissive of individual circumstances. I'm glad not everybody is like you. I've been successfully tuning my piano for years now. I asked plenty of questions from experts before I got started, I bought some decent tools, and I read up on the subject. I suspect most people will do this as well - especially somebody who is motivated enough to join this forum and ask for advice. My tuning results are good enough that I've had professional technicians who came to repair something else on my piano refuse to take my money for a tuning. Their words, "it sounds very good, I couldn't make it much better". Try keeping an open mind and stop throwing everybody in the same box. PS - I'll also add that I have rebuilt engines and changed transmissions in cars, and I'm not a professional mechanic either. If I took your advice, I wouldn't have done half the things I've done in my life. So, you like to ask plenty of questions from experts but only if the answers are the ones you want to hear. The OP asked for advice and he's getting advice. Here's the difference J: when somebody asks questions about how to go about doing something (not asking whether they should or shouldn't do it), replies suggesting nothing more than somebody ought to just give it up and hire a professional are already out of order. If that's what somebody thinks, that's fine but they should just keep it to themselves rather than stomp all over somebody's ambitions and make them feel they have no chance of success. The person asking the question should be afforded the respect of having their actual questions answered. I got some replies like that when I first started asking for pointers. I didn't appreciate them. I didn't find them to in a spirit of giving advice - they were more just condescending and dismissive of there being any chance of success. Luckily some techs were much more gracious and gave their advice freely and I used this advice to great advantage. My tuning efforts have been very successful and enjoyable. I can even accept somebody suggesting all the things that can go wrong by doing it yourself and the relative chances of success - that would still be instructive. But comments like "just don't do it, you'll screw it up, hire a professional". That's not advice and not an expert opinion. It's just dismissive and rude. When called on it, such people follow it up with "you couldn't possibly know this and that..." but that is equally dismissive and arrogant. Either answer the question or stay out of it. I understand that some techs are protective of their craft, but they shouldn't confuse dismissive arrogant comments as expert advice. Advice is clearly evident when somebody sees it - it's instructive, illuminating and helpful. "Don't do it, hire a pro" fails this criteria. To the original poster. Don't listen to the negative Nancy's telling you you can't do this. You can, provided you research it very well before you start. Ask plenty of questions, read lots, and then have at it. You can be successful and it can be very satisfying. I have not damaged my piano at all, it holds its tune and is a pleasure to play. Anyone else see the irony of someone telling us not to tell people what not to do? And the irony in this person preaching to us about arrogance. I'm glad he let us know that it is our duty to make this place a pleasant experience for non-technicians. Ando, your experience is apparently with your own piano in your own home. Most of the tuners here tune pianos all day long and have experienced far more than you have with regards to damage to pianos. This makes the statements made by such technicians more valuable than you may think. How many times did you need to have your work validated by a professional before you felt it was good enough to come on here and brag about?
Tuner-Technician
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Pete,
Doing what you are wanting to do on a piano is akin to me thinking about replacing the transmission in my own car. Unless you are really wanting to get into pianos, I would leave this job to a professional. But good luck. You guys sprout off this commentary by reflex. Not everybody is the same - some people have excellent aptitude, technical skills, understanding of physics etc. This blanket approach of "just never do it yourself, call a pro" is incredibly dismissive of individual circumstances. I'm glad not everybody is like you. I've been successfully tuning my piano for years now. I asked plenty of questions from experts before I got started, I bought some decent tools, and I read up on the subject. I suspect most people will do this as well - especially somebody who is motivated enough to join this forum and ask for advice. My tuning results are good enough that I've had professional technicians who came to repair something else on my piano refuse to take my money for a tuning. Their words, "it sounds very good, I couldn't make it much better". Try keeping an open mind and stop throwing everybody in the same box. PS - I'll also add that I have rebuilt engines and changed transmissions in cars, and I'm not a professional mechanic either. If I took your advice, I wouldn't have done half the things I've done in my life. So, you like to ask plenty of questions from experts but only if the answers are the ones you want to hear. The OP asked for advice and he's getting advice. Here's the difference J: when somebody asks questions about how to go about doing something (not asking whether they should or shouldn't do it), replies suggesting nothing more than somebody ought to just give it up and hire a professional are already out of order. If that's what somebody thinks, that's fine but they should just keep it to themselves rather than stomp all over somebody's ambitions and make them feel they have no chance of success. The person asking the question should be afforded the respect of having their actual questions answered. I got some replies like that when I first started asking for pointers. I didn't appreciate them. I didn't find them to in a spirit of giving advice - they were more just condescending and dismissive of there being any chance of success. Luckily some techs were much more gracious and gave their advice freely and I used this advice to great advantage. My tuning efforts have been very successful and enjoyable. I can even accept somebody suggesting all the things that can go wrong by doing it yourself and the relative chances of success - that would still be instructive. But comments like "just don't do it, you'll screw it up, hire a professional". That's not advice and not an expert opinion. It's just dismissive and rude. When called on it, such people follow it up with "you couldn't possibly know this and that..." but that is equally dismissive and arrogant. Either answer the question or stay out of it. I understand that some techs are protective of their craft, but they shouldn't confuse dismissive arrogant comments as expert advice. Advice is clearly evident when somebody sees it - it's instructive, illuminating and helpful. "Don't do it, hire a pro" fails this criteria. To the original poster. Don't listen to the negative Nancy's telling you you can't do this. You can, provided you research it very well before you start. Ask plenty of questions, read lots, and then have at it. You can be successful and it can be very satisfying. I have not damaged my piano at all, it holds its tune and is a pleasure to play. Anyone else see the irony of someone telling us not to tell people what not to do? And the irony in this person preaching to us about arrogance. I'm glad he let us know that it is our duty to make this place a pleasant experience for non-technicians. Ando, your experience is apparently with your own piano in your own home. Most of the tuners here tune pianos all day long and have experienced far more than you have with regards to damage to pianos. This makes the statements made by such technicians more valuable than you may think. How many times did you need to have your work validated by a professional before you felt it was good enough to come on here and brag about? Some of you techs are very insecure - fortunately just a minority. Most mechanics will acknowledge that there are home enthusiasts that have the aptitude to do good work. Why can't you? You don't have to protect your craft to this degree. I'm not suggesting I or any DIYers should start opening their own piano servicing centers. Some people want to try their hand at tuning. Let them try. Anyone who has done a modicum of research will not be snapping heaps of strings and making oval pinholes etc. part of the research phase is to find out what can go wrong and how to minimize the risk. The risk is accepted. To answer your question, I don't even consider the fact that I learned to tune a big deal. It was just a matter of logic, research and some good advice from some kind folk here on hammer technique and pin-setting. I'm not trying to rebuild pianos, just tuning and some key-rebushing and minor action work and hammer reshaping. I'm accepting of my limitations. I proceed carefully and cautiously. Besides, the OP stated quite clearly that he wasn't too concerned whether he "ruined" this piano, he is treating it as a learning experience, so your fears for his piano's well-being are unfounded. Again, a big to those of you who have actually addressed the OP's questions and offered very helpful advice. That kind of spirit was an enormous help to me when I started, and still is.
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Ando, you just don't listen, do you? I said, there is a difference between your limited knowledge and experience and those who do this everyday for a living. From this you have decided that we are insecure.
Let others' have their say as you have yours and don't be such a hypocrite. This is the technician's forum, if you don't like our answers then take a hike. We don't need your training on how to respond to questions.
Tuner-Technician
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Hi Pete and all - An interesting thread - I would add my encouragement for everyone to have the courage to try some new things in life. As far as trying to tune your own piano, why not? I think this has been posted before , but if any of you haven't seen it's pretty entertaining, and fits this topic very nicely. Have a great weekend, everyone! Chuck Behm
Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer www.pianopromoproductions.com515-212-9220 "The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
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Mark,
I sorta see where your'e coming from. I have had to clean up many messes made by Do it your selfer tuners. It can be comical sometimes. Gary, I have no idea what you're talking about. I think you are misunderstanding my post. I am sincerely encouraging him to try learning to tune his piano. My experience is different. I have lost more than a few customers by teaching them how to tune their own pianos. Cheers
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Not the same. Plenty of people tune their own piano as a hobby. I personally encourage it. It's not dangerous. It is not dangerous for you, as it allows you to sell them some help. Anyway it can be tempted, under correct supervision only Thanks for the recommendation. I'll have to start paying you a commission.;-)
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Joined: May 2013
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Full Member
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Mark,
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I really applaud someone for wanting to get into the piano tuning/repair business. There really IS enough work out there for everyone. I just don't want our profession to be cheapened by those who think that what we do is easy, and all you have to do is buy a machine,and ANYONE can tune their own piano!
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...
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Mark,
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I really applaud someone for wanting to get into the piano tuning/repair business. There really IS enough work out there for everyone. I just don't want our profession to be cheapened by those who think that what we do is easy, and all you have to do is buy a machine,and ANYONE can tune their own piano! There is a place for cheap and a place for good. Some do not appreciate good but do appreciate cheap. The existence of poorly performed machine tunings fills one market need, better tunings fills another.
Don, playing the blues in Austin, Texas on a 48" family heirloom Steinway upright, 100 year old, Starr, ca. 100 years old full size upright, Yamaha U30. Yamaha electric.
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The existence of poorly performed machine tunings fills one market need,... Which "market need" would that be? Jazz? Deaf clients?
JG
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don't bite off more than you can chew.
Otherwise you are at risk recieve choking. The string can break at the hands of a professional technician. To become a white swan, one must first be born ugly duckling
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Ando, you just don't listen, do you? I said, there is a difference between your limited knowledge and experience and those who do this everyday for a living. From this you have decided that we are insecure. Oh, I'm certain you are insecure, J. Most of you aren't, thank heavens, but a few of you are. You go frothing at the mouth anytime somebody asks a DIY question like it's going to result in the desecration of priceless treasures. You don't even care that the OP said he was prepared to take the risk and showed that he has a technical background. You focus on the worry and potential risk, but you show no interest in the potential benefit. Being an experienced professional shouldn't automatically bias you toward being negative. You should be able to assess each situation on its merits. Just look at the range of responses here - some of you say "sure, give it a go", others just dismiss it and say, "don't do it, you'll screw it up, hire a pro." Let others' have their say as you have yours and don't be such a hypocrite. This is the technician's forum, if you don't like our answers then take a hike. It's you who doesn't listen. I don't mind if you are against people tuning their pianos - but state your reasons and state the risks. Give a valid argument. Just saying "don't do it", is just intolerance masquerading as advice. We don't need your training on how to respond to questions. You shouldn't answer for every technician - there is considerable difference between techs. My only beef is with you naysayers who believe it's impossible to do this sort of job unless you are a trained professional.
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Mark,
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I really applaud someone for wanting to get into the piano tuning/repair business. There really IS enough work out there for everyone. I just don't want our profession to be cheapened by those who think that what we do is easy, and all you have to do is buy a machine,and ANYONE can tune their own piano! And here is the elephant in the room that no one has identified yet. The reason for any of these arguements is that we are talking about two completely different things: Hobby tuning and professional tuning and concert tuning. (That's three!)
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